advance tickets _ proportion of no shows

[Deerfold]

If you were to buy two advance fares on the same train with reservations next to each other, could you use this to stop anyone sitting next to you?

Interestingly National Express offer this service on some routes (though usually only if you are boarding at the first stop).

I assume they offer this on less busy services.

http://www.nationalexpress.com/utilities/press1.cfm

 

[cuccir]

What if the person is obese and can't fit on one seat?

You are allowed to purchase two seats on flights now - and in America, there is a big debate about whether it should be compulsory or not.

In the event that someone is obese enough to be unable to fit into a seat then this is a disability. As such they should be arranging to be booked into the priority access/disability seats when booking tickets, where there is more room.

 

[Zoe]

It says one seat per person.

This ticket allows you to reserve no more than one seat per person for each part of your
journey.

It clearly says that This ticket allows you to reserve no more than one seat per person. If I have two tickets I can say "This ticket" allowed me to reserve seat A for one of them and "This ticket" allowed me to reserve seat B for the other.

 

[island]

This thread is descending into farce

 

[DarloRich]

Apologies if asked before but does anyone know roughly the proportion of no shows on advance tickets.

Travelling on Virgin today and at least 10% no shows albeit that people may not be sitting in the seat they reserved and may have reserved a seat with an open ticket

I think the real question is how many people use and andvance ticket AND sit in thier booked seats.

I will always move if a better seat becomes free.

 

[Zoe]

I think the real question is how many people use and andvance ticket AND sit in thier booked seats.

I will always move if a better seat becomes free.

Anyone that does that is actually breaking the conditions of their ticket. It's surprising how this is very rarely enforced and that no-one has tried excessing anyone sitting in the wrong seat.

 

[Deerfold]

Anyone that does that is actually breaking the conditions of their ticket. It's surprising how this is very rarely enforced and that no-one has tried excessing anyone sitting in the wrong seat.

It's not that surprising - it would take an awful lot of time to enforce to little effect. If you're well past the reserved point, people can sit in a "reserved" seat anyway.

If the guard tries to enforce it while checking tickets you may be a couple of stations past your reserved point so someone may have sat in your reserved seat - I doubt they'd be impressed at being turfed out. And if they're not then you're left with nowhere to sit.

I sat in a different seat to my reserved seat 1st class Leicester to London on Saturday as there was a couple I know also travelling (which we didn't know until the day) and I sat opposite them. The carriage was half empty.

 

[Zoe]

It's not that surprising - it would take an awful lot of time to enforce to little effect.

The benefit could be extra revenue for the TOC. I'm not saying this is a good thing at all but considering how much the TOCs like maximizing revenue it's surprising they haven't tried this one.

 

[Flamingo]

It clearly says that This ticket allows you to reserve no more than one seat per person. If I have two tickets I can say "This ticket" allowed me to reserve seat A for one of them and "This ticket" allowed me to reserve seat B for the other.

PER PERSON - No person, no reservation. Up to the point the seat is reserved from, it is available for anyone to sit on. After the point the seat is reserved, if there is not a person sitting on it, it is free for anyone to sit on.

Saying you want it for your six foot invisible rabbit is not going to cut any ice with me if I have people standing and it is the only free seat in that carriage.

 

[Deerfold]

The benefit could be extra revenue for the TOC. I'm not saying this is a good thing at all but considering how much the TOCs like maximizing revenue it's surprising they haven't tried this one.

And putting off an awful lot of people travelling on advance tickets from travelling again.

 

[Zoe]

Saying you want it for your six foot invisible rabbit is not going to cut any ice with me if I have people standing and it is the only free seat in that carriage.

So how are you going to decide which of the two seats they have valid reservations for they should sit in? They could decide to change seats every 30 seconds. Would you just quickly remove the reservation card for the seat they are not in? What if they sit in both seats?

 

[trainophile]

Anyone that does that is actually breaking the conditions of their ticket. It's surprising how this is very rarely enforced and that no-one has tried excessing anyone sitting in the wrong seat.

Not on ATW as they don't issue seat reservations on their AP tickets nowadays.

 

[cuccir]

So how are you going to decide which of the two seats they have valid reservations for they should sit in? They could decide to change seats every 30 seconds?

No they can't. Having a ticket doesn't give you a right to act .

I'm not really sure what the point of all this is. Are you saying you want people to be able to mass book seats so that no-one else can sit down? To what end? Are you just hoping to find some flaw in ticket regulations? Again, to what end? It's quite clear that there for most people* there are no circumstances under which anyone can or should be able to book out to seats.


* I wouldn't be surprised if people with disabilities might be able to do this if needed

 

[trainophile]

Just out of interest, if you are travelling with an infant who goes free, if the train is crowded is there any obligation for the infant to vacate the seat they are sitting in, and sit on the accompanying adult's lap?

 

[Flamingo]

I've said how a reasonable guard would act in the circumstances. An unreasonable guard would refuse to take the train forward until the passenger stopped playing silly buggers or left the train.

 

[SS4]

Just out of interest, if you are travelling with an infant who goes free, if the train is crowded is there any obligation for the infant to vacate the seat they are sitting in, and sit on the accompanying adult's lap?

Yes

5. Children
Up to two children under five years of age may accompany each fare-paying
passenger free of charge. However, children under five years of age who are
travelling free may only occupy a seat which is not required by a fare-paying
passenger.

(chars)

 

[Flamingo]

Just out of interest, if you are travelling with an infant who goes free, if the train is crowded is there any obligation for the infant to vacate the seat they are sitting in, and sit on the accompanying adult's lap?

Yes, also covered in CoC.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Damn, bet me to it!

 

[trainophile]

Thanks. I wonder how often this gets enforced. Sometimes trains are so packed that an inspector couldn't get through anyway.

 

[Zoe]

If only you could easily reserve that single seat just in front of the Train Manager's office. Unfortunately the booking engines never seem to offer that seat.

 

[Harlesden]

Not on my train I've had that argument on busy trains before now.

If someone has purchased two Advance tickets (reserved two seats that are next to each other, how on earth can anyone morally force them to give up one of those two seats.
If someone is willing to pay for two seats, that makes them entitled to two seats in my view.
Rather like someone purchasing two identical meals, intending to eat both and then the buffet car manager coming to take one back because the buffet is short of meals

 

[WestCoast]

If only you could easily reserve that single seat just in front of the Train Manager's office. Unfortunately the booking engines never seem to offer that seat.

Is that the one on the FGW HSTs?

There is a similar seat, on the Pendolinos, but it is a table with just two facing seats (first class style) besides the train manager's office in coach C. I think the catering staff like using that one for administration, as it is also next to the shop.

 

[tony_mac]

how on earth can anyone morally force them to give up one of those two seats.

because the person standing has also paid (probably more).

and the taxpayer has funded at least 50% of the service, which is to enable the public to travel (and keep them off the roads).

 

[Zoe]

Is that the one on the FGW HSTs?

Yes, that is the seat.

 

[Flamingo]

If someone has purchased two Advance tickets (reserved two seats that are next to each other, how on earth can anyone morally force them to give up one of those two seats.
If someone is willing to pay for two seats, that makes them entitled to two seats in my view.
Rather like someone purchasing two identical meals, intending to eat both and then the buffet car manager coming to take one back because the buffet is short of meals

So someone who has paid for a walk-up ticket has to stand because someone who bought two tickets in advance wants to spread themselves out? That's not going to happen, at least not on any train I'm working.

To repeat, the ticket and reservation only entitles the passenger to one seat per person, regardless of how many tickets they are holding in their hand.

 

[Zoe]

To repeat, the ticket and reservation only entitles the passenger to one seat per person, regardless of how many tickets they are holding in their hand.

But the passenger would hold valid reservations for both seats and the conditions do say "This ticket" and doesn't say anything about having more than one reservation. If you are saying that a reservation is no longer valid if no-one is sitting in the seat then what if someone joins the train but stands for 20 minutes for some reason and then goes to their seat only to find someone else has taken it? Do they have no right to that seat as they didn't claim it?

 

[Flamingo]

But the passenger would hold valid reservations for both seats and the conditions do say "This ticket" and doesn't say anything about having more than one reservation.

Originally Posted by National Rail Conditions of Carriage
40. Reserving seats
Seats in some trains can be reserved before you travel and you may have to pay a fee. Unless you have a seat reservation, the Train Companies do not guarantee to provide a seat for your journey. You must have a valid ticket for your journey before reserving a seat. This ticket allows you to reserve no more than one seat per person for each part of your journey.

You can reserve one seat PER PERSON. What bit of this do you not understand?

If you are saying that a reservation is no longer valid if no-one is sitting in the seat then what if someone joins the train but stands for 20 minutes for some reason and then goes to their seat only to find someone else has taken it? Do they have no right to that seat as they didn't claim it?

It depends on the circumstance, but if they waited that long before looking for the seat, I would offer to find them an alternative seat of the same class. If they insisted on having that seat, I would probably upgrade the people I was asking to move to 1st class.

 

[Zoe]

You can reserve one seat PER PERSON.

THIS ticket allows you to reserve one seat per person. There is nothing to stop you reserving another seat with ANOTHER ticket.

 

[Flamingo]

In my opinion, the PER PERSON is the operative bit of it. And guess what, I'm the guard, my opinion is the only one that counts.

 

[Zoe]

And guess what, I'm the guard, my opinion is the only one that counts.

So you'd call the BTP then and have it taken to court?

 

[ralphchadkirk]

It is quite obvious that "This ticket allows you to reserve one seat per person" means one seat per person, because two people can't travel on the same Advance, so it must therefore mean that!