Advance tickets with seperate reservation coupons

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blacknight

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I would be surprised if the reply stated that the guard was in the wrong. This is a classic example of a gesture of goodwill, where the company has not made an error but wishes to encourage the complainant to use their services in the future.
Don't do anything for staff moral if Customer Relations cave in to passengers always to be the ones who shout loudest & possibly least deserving that get let off.
Life is hard try telling a young family of 2 adults & child that missing train with AP tickets as just cost them £100.00 you do feel sorry.
Staff are after all trying to enforce the very rules that TOC's created & they are questioned when anything other than anytime ticket is issued onboard.
 

Greenback

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Don't do anything for staff moral if Customer Relations cave in to passengers always to be the ones who shout loudest & possibly least deserving that get let off.
Life is hard try telling a young family of 2 adults & child that missing train with AP tickets as just cost them £100.00 you do feel sorry.
Staff are after all trying to enforce the very rules that TOC's created & they are questioned when anything other than anytime ticket is issued onboard.
I agree that it's difficult for front line staff. However, all they can do is use their judgement at the time in accordance with the instructions given by the employers.

If those employers later wish to make a gesture of goodwill I can understand why they do that, even though I may not agree with it every single time.
 

blacknight

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Might have been better if Customer Relations having looked into this case had stated
"The guard acted correctly in this case but as a good will gesture we have decided refund cost of your original ticket price minus £10.00 admin charge"
Thank you for travelling with East Coast & we look forward to you travelling again.
PS Should cost of original ticket be less than £10.00 we shall send the baliffs after you:lol:
 

Bungle73

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Fortunately East Coast seem to agree with me that the current ticketing system is tedious and there are far to many tickets to lumber passengers with! I was refunded £43.70 and was promised a money off voucher through the post with my apology! Although his mistake is rectified now so it doesn't really matter, how much trouble would it have been to simply call the office to find out whether I was entitled to travel on that train? Seems a little petty to me...
Unbelievable. You admitted throwing your reservation away because you thought they "weren't needed" (how you came to this conclusion I have no idea) even though it states "Valid only with reservation(s)" on the ticket, and somehow you still think it's someone else's fault. It's like you haven't even bothered to read the replies to the thread you started.

I know what it means, you know what it means... but you could read that and think it means the ticket is only valid with a reservation - which you would have made. It doesn't tell you literally that you must have the reservation ticket with you (or to hand).
Maybe, but it does also state "Valid only with ticket xyz" on the reservation so you'd think people would put two and two together. Also if you'd made seat reservations wouldn't most people think it wise to actually keep the ticket that told you where you were sitting?

Might have been better if Customer Relations having looked into this case had stated
"The guard acted correctly in this case but as a good will gesture we have decided refund cost of your original ticket price minus £10.00 admin charge"
Thank you for travelling with East Coast & we look forward to you travelling again.
PS Should cost of original ticket be less than £10.00 we shall send the baliffs after you:lol:
This. As far as I can see East Cost have given the green light to passengers to travel on Advance tickets on their trains without the reservation ticket.
 

AlterEgo

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As far as I can see East Cost have given the green light to passengers to travel on Advance tickets on their trains without the reservation ticket.
No they haven't.

This was a first "offence". I highly suspect the letter actually said that they were refunding the money as a gesture of goodwill, and that it stated the TnCs of Advance tickets, and that reservation coupons must be carried!

Surely we are not advocating a "zero tolerance" railway?

The OP made a stupid mistake, yes, but I don't think he'll be making it again! It's entirely appropriate for him to receive a refund, on a discretionary, one-off basis.
 

Bungle73

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No they haven't.

This was a first "offence". I highly suspect the letter actually said that they were refunding the money as a gesture of goodwill, and that it stated the TnCs of Advance tickets, and that reservation coupons must be carried!

Surely we are not advocating a "zero tolerance" railway?

The OP made a stupid mistake, yes, but I don't think he'll be making it again! It's entirely appropriate for him to receive a refund, on a discretionary, one-off basis.
Agreed. But since the OP still seems to think the guard was at fault it makes one wonder what the letter from EC actually said.
 

Flamingo

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Flamingo, how often in your experience do people throw away part of the ticket that they need?
Depends, they usually have it somewhere on them, and will find it with a little prompting.

When I can ring through if a missing reservation on an Advance ticket (not always possible, it depends who it was bought through, apart from everything else), then I would say that at least half of the missing reservations are on the wrong train!

As i say, I will accept e-mails, (paper or on mobile phone), and have even accepted diary entries before now (as realistically the individual has not scribbled it when they saw me coming, and would not be expecting me to ask to see it!). I will sometimes (if it was an unusual group or journey) be able to check the list (if I was given one, only happens about one in three trains).

I have to say, from a personal point of view, I did like the airline tickets, they had everything on them, I didn't need to waste time waiting for the ticket or reservation to be found, and the "missing" reservation or "missing" ticket is not an issue. I know there are issues around carrying them and barriers, but if I was being brutally honest, they are not my problem! <D

P.S I think EC customer services need to grow a pair.
 

blacknight

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As far as I can see East Cost have given the green light to passengers to travel on Advance tickets on their trains without the reservation ticket.
Certainly worth an appeal to East Coast Customer Relations if you have lost your reservation & have proof you were on correct train.
 

exile

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It's effectively, I think, an admission that the ticketing system is a trifle unwieldy in some cases. I don't think it sets a precedent for others to follow.
 

bb21

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I do agree with AlterEgo that a zero tolerance railway is not really what we want to see. I don't see the problem with showing some discretion and giving people the benefit of the doubt for the first time. I would imagine that people who work for EC's Customer Service department are intelligent enough to not admit to wrong-doing on the TM's part.

A firm reminder of the T&Cs together with a goodwill gesture will not cost the industry much, however it will help in presenting the TOCs in a far more positive light.

By all means ching them the second or the third time. A serial fare evader will soon be caught out.
 

Flamingo

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A firm reminder of the T&Cs together with a goodwill gesture will not cost the industry much, however it will help in presenting the TOCs in a far more positive light.

By all means ching them the second or the third time. A serial fare evader will soon be caught out.
But if they don't get caught a few times, then meet a TM who doesn;t charge them, and then get a mate to send back the ticket, it goes on.
 

wintonian

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That would be pretty inconvenient at barriered stations!
I agree, however they do seem to do this at.Ryde (yes I know it is pretty much self.contained) but me and a friend asked for 2 CDR's to Shanklin with DSB railcard and they were printed on the same ticket, no asking they were just printed, and IMO it was a positive thing as the tickets are only valid with the railcard and holder.
 

blacknight

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No they haven't.

This was a first "offence". I highly suspect the letter actually said that they were refunding the money as a gesture of goodwill, and that it stated the TnCs of Advance tickets, and that reservation coupons must be carried!

Surely we are not advocating a "zero tolerance" railway?

The OP made a stupid mistake, yes, but I don't think he'll be making it again! It's entirely appropriate for him to receive a refund, on a discretionary, one-off basis.
By making a "good will gesture" Customer Relations are rewarding a passenger who technically was in the wrong thus giving credence to idea guard was wrong in his action. In this instance guard acted correctly something Dodgydave fails to acknowledge so as the lesson been learnt? As to be carrott & stick not a white flag being waived.
Would have been far better if cost of the original AP ticket minus admin charge was refunded if any refund was to have been made at all.
 

Greenback

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By making a "good will gesture" Customer Relations are rewarding a passenger who technically was in the wrong thus giving credence to idea guard was wrong in his action. In this instance guard acted correctly something Dodgydave fails to acknowledge so as the lesson been learnt? As to be carrott & stick not a white flag being waived.
Would have been far better if cost of the original AP ticket minus admin charge was refunded if any refund was to have been made at all.
They are not rewarding the passenger, they are ensuring he has not been penalised. We don't know what was in the letter, but I would be surprised if there was any mention of the guard being incorrect.

However, it does seem as if Dodgydave has not really grasped that he should not have thrown away the reservations. In the circumstances outlined I would have been more inclined either not to provide a refund at all, or to do what you suggest, but I'm not sure if the latter would be allowed.
 

blacknight

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IMO Dodgydave might have learnt his lesson if he were still £43.00 out of pocket-Harsh but fair that will learn 'em.
By issuing separate coupons its an open invitation for some to attempt to travel for 2 for price of 1 as person A offers ticket & person B offers the reservation pleading thats all that was issued to them by your ticket machine
 

Greenback

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IMO Dodgydave might have learnt his lesson if he were still £43.00 out of pocket-Harsh but fair that will learn 'em.
By issuing separate coupons its an open invitation for some to attempt to travel for 2 for price of 1 as person A offers ticket & person B offers the reservation pleading thats all that was issued to them by your ticket machine
As I say, in the circumstances outlined by Dodgydave, I would lean more towards your view. But it's all about judgment, and I don't know what the OP put or the wording of the reply.

I suspect that if his complaint had been worded in a similar way to his OP, Dodgydave may not have got the same result.
 

Flamingo

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By issuing separate coupons its an open invitation for some to attempt to travel for 2 for price of 1 as person A offers ticket & person B offers the reservation pleading thats all that was issued to them by your ticket machine
I had somebody recently who I was CONVINCED was trying to do this, and the fact that English was a second language was being used as a smokescreen.

I eventually got the money out of them after 45 minutes on and off. (probably the hardest £2 commission I have ever earned).

Ten minutes later I was walking past them, and they had gone from not speaking English to sitting there reading a newspaper! <(
 

krus_aragon

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London-Berlin DB special return, two people, 3 legs each way, with reservations.
ONE TICKET.
Warrington-Newcastle, 3 people, 2 legs each way, with reservations and receipts.
FOURTEEN TICKETS.
Colwyn Bay - Hunmanby, 2 people, taking bicycles, return journey, with advance tickets and reservations? TWENTY-EIGHT TICKETS!
 

jetice

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I have to agree. The only reason for having a separate ticket must be to trap the unwary. The ticket says 'valid only with reservation(s)', but an inexperienced traveller may not realise that this actually means a separate ticket (in what other walk of life do you have to carry around so many bits of card - 4 per person for a return journey on advances - for a single transaction, the loss of any one of which will cause huge problems?), but that there will be some other way to identify that he is on the correct train. It would not surprise me at all to learn that TOCs actually budget for a proportion of their revenue to come from this lucrative stream. The fact that we understand the system does NOT make it either (a) easy to understand, (b) logical, or (c) unimprovable.
What nonsense! The Advance tickets could not be clearer...they state VALID WITH RESERVATIONS ONLY also 1 of 2 (or however many reservations you need for any changes). Honestly these tickets are ridiculously cheap and I get more complaints from people using them than those who travel on the full price tickets.....is the inconvenience of having to manage a couple more bits of paper not worth it for the money you are saving? If at least one person in a group is not capable of reading and understanding the tickets/reservations then they are not safe to be out alone on the railway! Personally I think that yes it would be great if the reservations could be on the ticket, no I am 100% sure that separating them is not a deliberate ploy to make more money as we really expect our passengers to be clever enough to understand the need for a ticket and a reservation on a booked train only ticket. I would also personally love to see Advance, Friends fare, Club 55, super off peak, off peak, cheap day returns etc etc all ditched and replaced by a medium priced ticket that was not as high as Anytimes and nowhere near as low as Advance tickets....oh how much easier our lives would be...people seem to think that we railway staff rub our hands with glee when the public get it wrong........no .....nothing would give me more pleasure than to go through a train and everyone is on the right one with the right ticket...all reservations and railcards ready for inspection, all luggage stowed away safely...no buggies blocking doorways..............I love happy passengers and hate arguing with them but I am quite prepared to do so if they are in the wrong! Sorry went a bit off topic there but since joining this forum I have found that people seem so ready to knock railway staff for no good reason...we really don't do things on purpose to annoy you....why would we....if you don't come back we will not have a job!
 

Yew

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Just a thought, but could they have. List of reservations printed of and given to the guard? Like on megatrain?
 

b0b

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I can't think of any other time I've had to show an separate reservation coupon when I've had reserved seats. It's unnecessarily complicated and confusing, caused by the overloading of things that aren't tickets being printed on ticket stock.
 

AlterEgo

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Just a thought, but could they have. List of reservations printed of and given to the guard? Like on megatrain?
Utterly unworkable on a train with 500 passengers on, many of whom won't be in the booked seat. Megatrain reservation lists are impractical enough with half a dozen per train!
 

Flamingo

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We do get it (depending on where the train is starting from), it is only useful if the journey is a bit unusual (eg, large group and / or an "unusual" journey). A single passenger going London-Cardiff, for example, no chance. A group of five going Reading-Neath could be identifiable.
 

dvboy

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I like it when one of the ticket machines at BHM is printing out an odd number of tickets/reservations it chucks out a "VOID" one to even it out.

I have collected three of these in the last year.
 

jopsuk

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So, this is a return journey. I've not split my journey anywhere. I am taking a bike, admittedly.

But still, the machine gave me 15 pieces of card. Crazy. Why can't all the reservations for a journey be printed on one ticket?

Can anyone beat this for a simple trip?
 

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