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Advanced Rail Energy Storage

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DaveNewcastle

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Nuclear of course can not just be switched on and off and needs to baseload. So at night when demand is lower running electric powered freight trains on an almost 100% electrified rail network is my dream. Cheap storage will help this vision.
You remind me of Belgium's decision around 1980 to illuminate all of its motorways, to provide a use for the night-time supply of energy from its nuclear stations and those on the adjacent French coast in Pas de Calais.
 
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edwin_m

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Really crazy idea - why can the train not be loaded with batteries? Double storage then?

I think the whole point of this scheme is that they've decided hauling heavy stuff up a hill is a cheaper way of storing energy than using batteries. So adding batteries would increase the storage capacity a bit but increase costs a lot more. Much cheaper just to get a couple more trains and sidings to put them in.
 

DaleCooper

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M C Escher came up with the ideal solution years ago, just replace the stairs with railway track.
 

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Class 170101

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It can. While the reactor can't be completely shut down on a whim, there's nothing saying that the heat has to be used for electricity generation. The ocean is a wonderful heat sink.

You're right though that it costs pretty much the same to generate as it does to warm the ocean, so you might as well generate and store.

Why pump it into oceans? Presmably the heat cannot be retrived to be used later? So instead why not heat homes / other buildings instead of wasting it?
 

Philip Phlopp

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Why pump it into oceans? Presmably the heat cannot be retrived to be used later? So instead why not heat homes / other buildings instead of wasting it?

It's mainly a summer thing - Britain is comfortable in summer but cold in winter, electricity demand drops in the summer time, which leaves constant load nuclear producing electric few people want, as they don't have their heating turned on.

A district heating system wouldn't really make use of much of the excess hot water when electric demand is low, and in any case, Britain doesn't build nuclear power stations next to large cities as a matter of policy, post Windscale.

It would be better to do something meaningful with the heat - continue to generate electric and create hydrogen with it, which can be generated, compressed and stored a short but safe distance away from the nuclear power station. Liquid hydrogen is easier to generate when steam rather than water is used, so the steam from the nuclear power station could be used as the water source in a hydrogen electrolysis plant.

That liquid hydrogen can either be used as a vehicle fuel, if fuel cell vehicles break into the main stream, or stored over the low peak periods and off-peak periods, and used in a hydrogen power station as peak and additional winter load.

I do like the idea of an IPEMU using a hydrogen fuel cell. It would be a good solution for WHL, FNL etc.
 
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najaB

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Why pump it into oceans? Presmably the heat cannot be retrived to be used later? So instead why not heat homes / other buildings instead of wasting it?
Most UK reactors are on the coast so that they can use ocean water for cooling. As Phil Phlopp said, if electricity demand is low then there are things you can do with the reactor output such as hydrogen generation or desalination.

But worst come to worst you just dial the output as low as it's safe to and let it cook away at minimum output, warming the ocean by a fraction of a degree.
 

HSTEd

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Hydrogen has so many industrial uses that using it in a fuel cell plant seems pointless.

The current problem is that the electrolysis units have sufficiently high capital costs that off peak only use puts the hydrogen price quite high even with zero energy cost.
 

najaB

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A little rough calculation says that if 100% of the reactor's capacity was dedicated to warming the oceans, in a year it would raise the temperature of the oceans by about 1x10^-20 degrees - that's one ten millionth of one billionth of a degree.
Just realised that I forgot to multiply out for the number of seconds. So it would actually be closer to 1 hundredth of a billionth of a degree per year.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The current problem is that the electrolysis units have sufficiently high capital costs...
Which results in the insane situation of producing 'clean' hydrogen from oil or coal.
 
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