Adventures into the Underworld - travelling around North Surrey

[TheGrandWazoo]

A few weeks ago, someone had mentioned a new multi-operator ticket in North Surrey called Acorn. With the better half away, and me working up there, thought I'd have a day out and sample it.

It's not an area I know that well, and it's a curious ticket in a curious area. The number of services it is valid on it pretty limited, not being valid on anything TfL. You can use it to get to Woking but no further West so because of that, it's just valid on one Arriva service (436) and one Stagecoach (715) and one First (8) around Staines. It's a real curate's egg.

Now much of the area was Arriva territory (darn Roger French from stealing my thunder) but aside from a few routes in Woking worked from Guildford, they really have retrenched as they closed their depots at Merstham and Woking. Also, it has really suffered from various malaises from Surrey CC massively cutting subsidies and the consequent winding up of the old Abellio Surrey business. Here's the observations.

I began my day at Englefield Green near Egham, catching the 441 operated by White Bus. I always associated them with old Bedfords trundling around Windsor but they are much changed. My 441 had a smart friendly driver, an e200 with wifi, and no issues getting my ticket. All good. I changed in Staines for the 8 to Heathrow. Usually operated by Citaros from their Slough outpost, instead it was a Volvo Hybrid that should've been on the 7s. Driver accepted the ticket ok and I have to say that the vehicle itself was decent though with quite a lot of rattles for a European style citibus. Also, the absence of virtually any internal promotion - warnings on modern slavery and honour crime in Slough are laudable but really? Is that what your passengers should be reading?

The 8 terminates at T5 so it was a short hop on the HEx to the CBS. Grabbed a coffee and then went for the 555, now operated by Rotala's Hallmark subsidiary. It was an 18 plate Streetlite WF that I thought was a bit small but, as I was soon discovering, Surrey bus routes are not overly loaded with punters. The driver had a good look at the ticket, then barked at me saying he was checking it. I replied "I know" - really oddly aggressive!! Anyway, we headed off and after a driver change at Hatton Cross, we carved our way from the various freight depots and into suburbia. Now, I've said this before. Rotala are a fairly substantial group and you'd think that they'd promote their services in some way but, as with Diamond, it's woeful. They seem to think that get a new bus, and it'll be fine. Well, it worked about 20 years ago but not these days. I changed in Shepperton, and then caught a 458 short working to Walton with another new Streetlite though a DF version.

A short interlude and it was onto a new bus with a 68 plate e200mmc and Falcon Buses. Well, what can I say. Falcon (and White Bus) were easily the best presented, best operated vehicles I saw in Surrey. Being new, it was a bus in good condition and had an internal poster 3' x 2' that showed their routes and even promo fares. The driver was smart and gave a toss - really impressed by Falcon. That took me into Kingston via West Molesey where we had the clear distinction of the haves and have nots. Where Surrey makes do with broad headways (only the Englefield to Staines routes combine to provide anything approaching frequent), Kingston had masses of red deckers running frequently.

Still, I had to snap out of it, and after a short break, it was time for the 715. Operated by Stagecoach from their Haslemere depot (?), it runs to Guildford though Acorn is only valid as far as Cobham. The machine was a rather faded 56 plate Dart 35211, but fair enough, it rolled along quite quickly and wasn't too bad inside. We soon arrived at Esher - again to be fair to Surrey CC, they do put roadside material including maps where to get your bus from and that was invaluable as Esher is a little odd with the road system. I had lunch and then headed on an older (58 plate) yet still impeccable e200 of Falcon on the 515 to Weybridge.

At Weybridge, I would complete the triumvirate and get the only Arriva service, the 436 to Woking. Well, if one journey could sum up Arriva's issues, this was it. It was a 61 plate Versa that was formerly in Southend - you could see where the vinyls had been removed. It was quite faded inside and again, no promotional blurb or anything. A truly soulless experience and you could easily see this fall into the "too difficult to operate" category and them pull out and leave it to some indy. The route is normally Citaros (I think) to tie in with Mercedes Benz World at Brooklands and the route itself is quite nice though again, it is hardcore suburbia.

We arrived in Woking - been there once before, won't go again. The place is full of loud angry blokes getting hammered on a Saturday and I hated it. The train station is as welcoming as backache and the bus terminus is convenient yet lousy. Had a wander round as you guessed and on returning, saw the next 436 which was a Citaro but the front was in Max livery but the vinyl had also been removed. Basically, Arriva seems to have lost any ambition and you think they'd be better off flogging Guildford to Stagecoach if I'm honest.

Instead, I got the 446 White Bus service to Staines which had another smart 16 plate e200 and another good driver. They were rivalling Falcon as the best operator! I enjoyed that journey but decided it was perhaps ok to get off and break my journey to Staines at Chertsey and had a coffee. I wandered out for the Falcon 456 and had one of the worst journeys going - no reflection on the bus or driver but three women (sisters) with their 8 kids. The kids were alternately loud or quiet but one of the mothers had a voice like an angle grinder. 20 odd mins of that were enough - is that something that dissuades passengers?

At Staines, I just missed the 441 so it was another First 8 with another Volvo Hybrid (69933) which had all the failings the one I had in the morning had.

All in all, it was a good day out and the Acorn ticket was universally accepted and well promoted. It just seems to have a limited usage/market. However, and despite the excellence of Falcon and White Bus, it was such a dispiriting experience. It's a netherworld of bus operation - Surrey CC have got massive budgetary constraints and are trying their best with not much. Contrast that with the land of milk and honey in the fleshpots of Kingston and Staines. Major operators have vacated the area with just the odd tendril sneaking through and, in Arriva, an operator that has lost all sight of what it needs to do to be successful in the long term.

 

[Lynford1976]

Fascinating, thank you. Think Stagecoach operate the 715 from their depot at Peasmarsh, near Guildford.

Totally agree with you about Arriva leaving Stagecoach to it in Guildford - and Saturday night in Woking!

 

[Robertj21a]

Isn't Falcon connected with Tellings (of TGM fame) in some way ?

 

[Lynford1976]

Isn't Falcon connected with Tellings (of TGM fame) in some way ?

Yes - it's run by the son of the original owner, and uses the same premises near Brooklands.

 

[Mal]

I must admit I'd never heard of Falcon Buses until I read this article, so had a look at their website and was really impressed. It's well laid out, easy to get round and understand, but for me the best point is that they show the range of daily and weekly tickets complete with all pricing details and a bus tracker. Even sample single fares are shown on the network map. However, out of 10 I'd give them 8.5. A fleet list and potted company history would make the site perfect. There are many bus companies out there that could and should use that website as a shining example. Well done Falcon!

 

[Surreyman]

Many of the better routes TGW sampled are the ones recently tendered (mostly with new vehicles) and Surrey Cc supported.
This area historically was one where the 'Red routes' of LT came right out into north west Surrey, and what was originally Middlesex,
715 runs out of the Stagecoach Peasmarsh depot (Just south of Guildford) Haslemere outstation closed a couple of years ago.
Stagecoach have recently gained the 'rights of access' to the Surrey University routes, running to the RSCH, Park Barn, Rydes Hill, Stoughton circulars competing directly with Arriva, who have effectively been 'kicked out' of the University which is a serious passenger volume traffic centre.
Currently a Bus/fares war is going on between Arriva and Safeguard (& Stagecoach) for town to RSCH traffic.
Arriva have registered changes with new A, B & C routes coming in November, basically a variation on the existing circulars with short workings to the RSCH.
Arriva have also recently lost some tendered routes south east of Woking (They might have been secretly pleased who knows?).
I picked up a leaflet for 'Acorn' at the Brooklands bus museum on Sunday and was thinking of having a ride round myself.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Fascinating, thank you. Think Stagecoach operate the 715 from their depot at Peasmarsh, near Guildford.

Totally agree with you about Arriva leaving Stagecoach to it in Guildford - and Saturday night in Woking!

Many of the better routes TGW sampled are the ones recently tendered (mostly with new vehicles) and Surrey Cc supported.
This area historically was one where the 'Red routes' of LT came right out into north west Surrey, and what was originally Middlesex,
715 runs out of the Stagecoach Peasmarsh depot (Just south of Guildford) Haslemere outstation closed a couple of years ago.
Stagecoach have recently gained the 'rights of access' to the Surrey University routes, running to the RSCH, Park Barn, Rydes Hill, Stoughton circulars competing directly with Arriva, who have effectively been 'kicked out' of the University which is a serious passenger volume traffic centre.
Currently a Bus/fares war is going on between Arriva and Safeguard (& Stagecoach) for town to RSCH traffic.
Arriva have registered changes with new A, B & C routes coming in November, basically a variation on the existing circulars with short workings to the RSCH.
Arriva have also recently lost some tendered routes south east of Woking (They might have been secretly pleased who knows?).
I picked up a leaflet for 'Acorn' at the Brooklands bus museum on Sunday and was thinking of having a ride round myself.

Thanks for the clarity chaps - I thought Haslemere sounded wrong so appreciate that.

Have to say the Acorn ticket is a bit odd - covers a relatively small area of the county and not even every bus there!

 

[Flange Squeal]

The Acorn product was primarily created following the two main phases of Abellio Surrey’s demise. The reason was that passengers making some journeys were now having to pay two operators, which increased the cost of bus travel when compared with what they paid when one operator ran the network. As a result, this is why the ticket more or less only covers what was the Abellio Surrey network area (minus the 81).

The North West Surrey Bus Users Group held one of their meetings in Woking last week, where Arriva’s depot manager was the guest speaker. He confirmed that Arriva had put in a bid for the 437/462/463 and was disappointed when they didn’t retain the routes, denying the rumours that Arriva hadn’t put in for them at all. He stated that “Arriva are committed to Surrey”, but stressed the current operation may change. He made a point of stating that following recent events in Guildford, Woking now provides an increased portion of their income. A network revision will take place early next year, but no further details were available. The 436 receives funding from Mercedes-Benz World so is safe in its current format for now, but we were told this only runs for another 2-3 years so beyond that remains to be seen.

 

[Busaholic]

A very interesting post. I too hardly know the area and, without subsidy, it's really unpromising bus territory, except perhaps for Heathrow traffic. Traffic, in the other sense, is the huge bugbear of course with probably more cars per head than anywhere in the UK, so you don't need TfL f*rting around with gyratories and cycle lanes/highways to cause massive jams. Showing my age, the last and only time I was on a 436 it was operated by an RLH (AEC Regent lowbridge) out of Addlestone garage! Of course, although Acorn is not available on TfL services, the odd £1.50 you might have to fork out on one of those shouldn't break the bank.

P.S. I've only been to Woking the once, too, and hope never to repeat the experience.

P.P.S. Arriva is the actual and (arguably) spiritual heir to London Transport country bus operations, later London Country and (almost all) the privatised parts of the latter, especially London Country South West with its Reigate base and all the heritage surrounding that, so its demise in Surrey is regrettable from an historical perspective.

 

[Surreyman]

Busaholic,
I grew up in London Transport/London Country 'land' and have fond memories of LC, however I would gladly see the back of Arriva, their current Guildford based operation is now arguably more former Aldershot & District/Alder Valley -60/40 - L.C (Woking & Guildford were always border towns shared between operators).
The rebuilt depot in Leas rd Guildford is the sole remaining former LC depot in Surrey, all the others have been demolished and built on or in the case of Reigate converted to a childrens nursery!
TGWs evening in the centre of Woking rings true but it's not much different to a lot of other places on a Friday/ Saturday Night, believe it or not most of Woking is fairly affluent suburbia.
I can only see Arriva slowly cutting back, as a company they are very focussed on the financials, I imagine their brief from DB HO must be to consistently make a minimum return and take whatever action is required to maintain that.
I don't like Arriva much but I am a big fan of Deutsche Bahn!

 

[ChrisC]

New multi operator tickets are always very welcome but I’m surprised that there is this new ticket covering a small number of routes in North Surrey when the Discovery Ticket is also valid in the same area. I know that the Discovery Ticket costs £2 more for a day ticket but it does cover the whole of Surrey, except for Tfl services. It is much more flexible covering the whole county including the whole of the 715 route to Guildford and also across the county border into Hampshire and Sussex and beyond.

 

[Flange Squeal]

The Acorn is cheaper than the Discovery which is obviously better for its intended market - those passengers whose travel costs had increased during and following the death of Abellio Surrey. The Discovery is also not valid on all the operators in the area it covers, where as the Acorn is as the council has more control as those routes are council tendered. An interesting point about the Acorn though is it is cheaper than Hallmark’s own rover, yet is valid on all their main stage carriage routes!

 

[Typhoon]

New multi operator tickets are always very welcome but I’m surprised that there is this new ticket covering a small number of routes in North Surrey when the Discovery Ticket is also valid in the same area. I know that the Discovery Ticket costs £2 more for a day ticket but it does cover the whole of Surrey, except for Tfl services. It is much more flexible covering the whole county including the whole of the 715 route to Guildford and also across the county border into Hampshire and Sussex and beyond.

Discovery also valid in Kent.

There is also a weekly 'Acorn' ticket - so perhaps it is aimed at the regular traveller on former Abellio Surrey routes, not just the 'day out' traveller (extending the suggestion of #8).

 

[alex397]

I had an explore around Berkshire and North Surrey on Friday, and there is certainly a lot of variety to keep an enthusiast entertained!

After travelling on the TfL 81 to Slough, then the new 703 to Heathrow T5.

I then tried out the Carlone 442 (a council contract route) which is run with minibuses, with 12 journeys on Mon-Sat including some very early morning journeys. Now, i've been on some very rural bus services on a minibus, with a driver playing the radio, and the passengers having conversations with the driver and each other, and a passenger giving the driver some home grown produce, but it was very surprising to see this sort of thing on a service starting at one of Europe's busiest airports, and on a route with journeys in the very early hours. It really was quite bizarre. The service appears to be run very well with comfortable modern vehicles (a brand new minibus is soon to operate the route I believe), and the bus running on time. Really friendly driver too. Despite heaving traffic entering the delightfully-named Staines, we arrived only 1 minute late. I travelled on one of the 4 journeys which go deeper into the housing estates than the other journeys.
I then had a quick return journey to Egham, starting with White Bus route 500 on one of their brand new Enviro200MMCs. I was very impressed - a smart looking bus, with friendly helpful driver, well stocked with timetables, really comfortable seats, and I was especially surprised to see next-stop announcements similar to iBus. I wonder if the council funded this, or its entirely by White Bus. Either way, its great to see this, as its still rare to see on non-London buses. Certainly the way buses should be run. A bit of a contrast to Hallmark......

After returning to Staines on a First 8, I used TfL 203 to Ashford Hospital to pick up the 555, which turned up 5 mins late only for the driver to then make a personal phone call. The bus only had a handful of people. At Terminal 4, most got off, to be replaced by quite a few Heathrow Freeflow passengers, who all got off at Hatton Cross, leaving me as the only passenger. I was surprised to be the only passenger on a route to one of Europe's busiest airports, on an hourly route, on a section of route which is free! I've read this route used to be quite busy, and was at a 15-min frequency. How times have changed!

I also want to moan about the really poor bus information at Heathrow T5. Once you reach the arrivals lounge, theres plenty of information about the Tube and the overpriced Heathrow Express, but very little about local buses. The Heathrow Airport-produced signs which shows where to catch your bus is very out of date. It still shows long-withdrawn First routes at 60, 61, 71 etc, but nothing about the non-TfL services that actually run. . The bus stop poles, maintained by TfL, have not had e-tiles updated for recent services, and no timetables for these either. Theres no evidence anywhere about the Greenline 703. Heathrow Airport, an organisation responsible for a huge amount of pollution in the local area, really should be doing all they can to mitigate local pollution, and that includes adequately promoting local bus services. I've seen better public transport information at airports in Eastern Europe.

Carlone, and especially White Bus, really impressed me. Lets hope they can help increase passenger levels again in this difficult operating territory. Hallmark were ok, but plenty of room for improvement.

 

[Busaholic]

Busaholic,
I grew up in London Transport/London Country 'land' and have fond memories of LC, however I would gladly see the back of Arriva, their current Guildford based operation is now arguably more former Aldershot & District/Alder Valley -60/40 - L.C (Woking & Guildford were always border towns shared between operators).
The rebuilt depot in Leas rd Guildford is the sole remaining former LC depot in Surrey, all the others have been demolished and built on or in the case of Reigate converted to a childrens nursery!
TGWs evening in the centre of Woking rings true but it's not much different to a lot of other places on a Friday/ Saturday Night, believe it or not most of Woking is fairly affluent suburbia.
I can only see Arriva slowly cutting back, as a company they are very focussed on the financials, I imagine their brief from DB HO must be to consistently make a minimum return and take whatever action is required to maintain that.
I don't like Arriva much but I am a big fan of Deutsche Bahn!

Sorry to take so long to reply to your interesting post.
I only once went on an Aldershot and District bus, accompanying my godmother to see her brother in Jacob's Well. I remember a Dennis doubledecker, because they were as rare as hen's teeth in those days, but it wasn't a Loline as I don't think that had been invented then, so probably a Lance. Did A&D have a separate bus station in Guildford? We probably took a train from Wimbledon to Guildford.
Shame to hear about the demise of bus garages: Garston now joined them, of course, from the ex-LC list.
From what you say it'll be a slow decline for Arriva. I suppose Deutsche Bahn don't feel inclined to adopt their own high standards over here because they can get away with much lower ones in England. Sounds cynical, but I'm sure it's true.