Advice for Southampton -> London Vauxhall

SuperSaint999

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Looking at getting an annual season ticket on the SWR website and can't decide if I am right in thinking this is possible:

Starting at Southampton Central -> Waterloo -> Vauxhall would be the ideal route, so the annual season ticket includes:

Origin: Southampton Central
Destination: London Terminals

Would that season ticket also cover the train from Waterloo -> Vauxhall as it is classed as a London Terminal. Or would I need a separate ticket that covers that route?

Very confused on the SWR wording, some advice would be great!
 
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SuperSaint999

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The standard way would be to change at Clapham Junction, would this not work for you?
That could be something worth considering, would that also work with the described season ticket? So I would not have to buy another ticket to cover Clapham Junction/Waterloo to Vauxhall?
 

Class800

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Clapham Junction is on the route from Southampton to London Terminals, it is the normal changing point for Vauxhall. A Southampton to London Terminals season ticket would be valid to Vauxhall changing at Clapham Junction. It will have other validity too, but I don't want to complicate the response.
 

Watershed

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Looking at getting an annual season ticket on the SWR website and can't decide if I am right in thinking this is possible:

Starting at Southampton Central -> Waterloo -> Vauxhall would be the ideal route, so the annual season ticket includes:

Origin: Southampton Central
Destination: London Terminals

Would that season ticket also cover the train from Waterloo -> Vauxhall as it is classed as a London Terminal. Or would I need a separate ticket that covers that route?

Very confused on the SWR wording, some advice would be great!
A season ticket is valid for unlimited travel along the line of route. A Southampton Central (SOU)-London Terminals season ticket is obviously valid to Waterloo, and Vauxhall is on the route to Waterloo. therefore you can 'double back' between Waterloo and Vauxhall as much as you like on a London Terminals season.

As it happens, Vauxhall is indeed a London Terminal, but that doesn't affect the answer to your question.
 

Class800

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True - can go via Waterloo if it's quicker, but the Clapham Junction change is also possible and a common way to do it. Two ways to do it - neither need an extra ticket. Season tickets give a lot of flexibility
 

Surreytraveller

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Clapham Junction is on the route from Southampton to London Terminals, it is the normal changing point for Vauxhall. A Southampton to London Terminals season ticket would be valid to Vauxhall changing at Clapham Junction. It will have other validity too, but I don't want to complicate the response.
It will also be valid for changing at Waterloo, which is what the OP was asking
 

hermit

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Indeed, it is the normal way of getting to Vauxhall if you’re coming in on services which don’t stop at Clapham Junction, such as the Portsmouth fasts.
 

nickw1

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Indeed, it is the normal way of getting to Vauxhall if you’re coming in on services which don’t stop at Clapham Junction, such as the Portsmouth fasts.

In fact isn't it the case that very little long-distance stops at Clapham Junction in the morning peak, making it a difficult route? (change Woking onto a stopping train, calling at all to Surbiton, necessary?)
 

Class800

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Looking at timetables, in peak time I would agree Waterloo is often a better routing due to fewer Clapham stops. In the daytime, Clapham would be common. Valid both ways, that's the good thing - via Waterloo, or changing at Clapham.
 

nickw1

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I guess the long-term SWML plan of increased peak capacity (should that ever come to pass - maybe once the current cuts-oriented climate has passed) might allow some fast services from the coast to call at Clapham Junction in the peak, and maybe some semi-fast services even Vauxhall?
 

BayPaul

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I guess the long-term SWML plan of increased peak capacity (should that ever come to pass - maybe once the current cuts-oriented climate has passed) might allow some fast services from the coast to call at Clapham Junction in the peak, and maybe some semi-fast services even Vauxhall?
Unlikely for extra Clapham services - they reduce capacity rather than increase it, due to the awkward platform arrangements at Clapham
 

Class800

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Being Devon based, the route into Waterloo I use always stops at Clapham, which is why that route is the one I think of first, but it may not be best for Hampshire routes as it transpires
 

SWTCommuter

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I commuted from Southampton to offices near Vauxhall station for a few years in the 1990s. It was simpler, more reliable and usually quicker to walk from Waterloo rather than faff about doubling-back or changing at Clapham Junction. It's quite a pleasant walk along the embankment.
 

island

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A season ticket would be unquestionably valid as it covers unlimited journeys on the line of route.

A single ticket is somewhat of a shade of grey as you might be reasonably expected to change at Clapham Junction rather than double-back, but would of course be valid if you could purchase it with an appropriate itinerary.
 

miklcct

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A season ticket would be unquestionably valid as it covers unlimited journeys on the line of route.

A single ticket is somewhat of a shade of grey as you might be reasonably expected to change at Clapham Junction rather than double-back, but would of course be valid if you could purchase it with an appropriate itinerary.

I've read there is a negative easement prohibiting us to do so, and an advance ticket is the only way we can get a single ticket on such itinerary. (You can try searching Vauxhall to Southampton on National Rail Enquiries in the evening peak, when the fastest trains do not stop at Clapham Junction)

Also, although season tickets are not limited in this way, I strongly advise the OP not to change this way because the minimum connecting time at London Waterloo is 15 minutes, which limits the Delay Repay right in case your long distance train into London Waterloo and you do short connections regularly to Vauxhall there. If possible use a routing which gives the minimum journey time after taking the official interchange time into account, such that you can be protected the most if your fastest journey is delayed.
 

cornishjohn

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Clearly on a season ticket this double-back is fine.

LNER website is offering a via Waterloo itinerary for such a single ticket this morning.

I've read there is a negative easement prohibiting us to do so, and an advance ticket is the only way we can get a single ticket on such itinerary. (You can try searching Vauxhall to Southampton on National Rail Enquiries in the evening peak, when the fastest trains do not stop at Clapham Junction)

I can find

030230 Circuitous route Customers travelling from Vauxhall to Clapham Junction and beyond may not travel via London Waterloo. This circuitous route easement applies in both directions
which forbids it.

I think however we can get valid routes separately via Paddington or via London Bridge which necessitate travel through Waterloo ...

Curiouser and curiouser perhaps.
 

Class800

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On a season, it's definitely OK, as can perform multiple journeys along the line of route. On a 'normal' ticket, the easement doesn't permit it, so I'd only do it with a printed itinerary showing this route. Personally, I would always change at Clapham, but I realise this was not the most tailored advice to the OP on a season ticket on peak time Hampshire services where Clapham calls are limited.
 

MikeWh

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I think however we can get valid routes separately via Paddington or via London Bridge which necessitate travel through Waterloo ...

Curiouser and curiouser perhaps.
via Paddington surprises me - can you give more details.
via London Bridge is quite normal. You won't be also going via Clapham Junction in that instance. Vauxhall has been a London terminal from South and South East London via Waterloo East/Waterloo for over 50 years.
 

Snow1964

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I've read there is a negative easement prohibiting us to do so, and an advance ticket is the only way we can get a single ticket on such itinerary. (You can try searching Vauxhall to Southampton on National Rail Enquiries in the evening peak, when the fastest trains do not stop at Clapham Junction)

Also, although season tickets are not limited in this way, I strongly advise the OP not to change this way because the minimum connecting time at London Waterloo is 15 minutes, which limits the Delay Repay right in case your long distance train into London Waterloo and you do short connections regularly to Vauxhall there. If possible use a routing which gives the minimum journey time after taking the official interchange time into account, such that you can be protected the most if your fastest journey is delayed.

I don’t think you need to worry about the 15 minutes minimum change on a season ticket, in practice there are trains Waterloo-Vauxhall every 2-3 minutes from platforms 1-5 (sometimes 6) and trains about every 4-8 minutes from platforms 16+

For some platforms you can walk between buffers and barriers (which works best depends on which platform mainline train uses, as shops on former carriage road break the route, unless you go around back of shops), and during peak can also do down the stairs near second carriage to W&C mid concourse and up to another platform (more like 2-4 minutes to change once you know layout)

However if you don’t pass any barriers at Waterloo doing this, not sure if delay repay will calculate automatically as it will have to guess your trains and changes.
 

30907

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Also, although season tickets are not limited in this way, I strongly advise the OP not to change this way because the minimum connecting time at London Waterloo is 15 minutes, which limits the Delay Repay right in case your long distance train into London Waterloo and you do short connections regularly to Vauxhall there.
I suspect the OP might be more concerned to make the trip in the most convenient way :). In any case, delay repay would be based on the 15min rule, so +15 into Waterloo = +15 into Vauxhall (give or take!).
 

miklcct

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I suspect the OP might be more concerned to make the trip in the most convenient way :). In any case, delay repay would be based on the 15min rule, so +15 into Waterloo = +15 into Vauxhall (give or take!).
I should explain more clearly here:

Minimum connecting time is 15 minutes at London Waterloo, therefore a legal connection involves waiting 15 minutes there.

For a regular commuter, such waiting is never acceptable considering there are frequent trains back to Vauxhall, so a plausible commuting plan should only have maybe 3-4 minutes for interchanging at Vauxhall for the immediate train.

If the train is delayed by 15 minutes into London Waterloo, and OP changes to the immediate train for Vauxhall, he can't claim delay repay even he's 15 minutes late into his office, because in his original plan, the official connecting time isn't met, so he can't claim based on his commuting plan, but according to an itinerary which meets the official time, he will be delayed by less than 15 minutes, or even none at all.

The shorter the official connecting time is, the more protected the OP is in case the long distance train is delayed.
 

yorkie

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The shorter the official connecting time is, the more protected the OP is in case the long distance train is delayed.
The more likely a valid connection is going to be missed, and therefore increasing the chances of being eligible to claim for Delay Repay
 

cornishjohn

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via Paddington surprises me - can you give more details.
via London Bridge is quite normal. You won't be also going via Clapham Junction in that instance. Vauxhall has been a London terminal from South and South East London via Waterloo East/Waterloo for over 50 years.
I was relying on Southampton Group -> London Group being valid on Maps XR+RG (London-Reading main line). I guess there's a schoolboy error here somewhere; is Vauxhall not in London Group?
 

island

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I was relying on Southampton Group -> London Group being valid on Maps XR+RG (London-Reading main line). I guess there's a schoolboy error here somewhere; is Vauxhall not in London Group?
Southampton to London Terminals is indeed valid to Paddington on the above maps. The ticket does not have validity from Paddington to Vauxhall on London Underground, as it is not a Travelcard nor does it have the cross-London marker (which season tickets should not ever have anyway).
 

30907

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I should explain more clearly here:

Minimum connecting time is 15 minutes at London Waterloo, therefore a legal connection involves waiting 15 minutes there.

For a regular commuter, such waiting is never acceptable considering there are frequent trains back to Vauxhall, so a plausible commuting plan should only have maybe 3-4 minutes for interchanging at Vauxhall for the immediate train.

If the train is delayed by 15 minutes into London Waterloo, and OP changes to the immediate train for Vauxhall, he can't claim delay repay even he's 15 minutes late into his office, because in his original plan, the official connecting time isn't met, so he can't claim based on his commuting plan, but according to an itinerary which meets the official time, he will be delayed by less than 15 minutes, or even none at all.
In those circumstances she could reasonably claim DR on the basis of the 15min minimum connection time - bad luck of course if the booked time was 16min and the actual was 14. I would consider that morally acceptable.
Alternatively she could use the actual times (original and delayed) - is there evidence that SW would reject these?
 

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