Advice on summons application

Discussion in 'Disputes & Prosecutions' started by Tomjameson, 13 Mar 2019 at 20:18.

  1. Tomjameson

    Tomjameson New Member

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    Hi

    I was recently stopped at my local station and details were taken in regard to unpaid fares.

    I have since received a notification of summons application from a prosecution officer at C2C stating I need to pay a sum to contribute towards prosecution costs and compensation of unpaid fares.

    It also states they are willing to take no further action if I make immediate full settlement of the outstanding fares plus an admin fee .

    I do not dispute the outstanding fares however I do query the sum. Can I respond and ask for a breakdown of this figure ? Also can I ask to pay in instalments I.e agree a payment plan?

    I was told at the time that I would receive a breakdown of sorts and that a payment plan would be received.

    Any help much appreciated

    Thanks !
     
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  3. cuccir

    cuccir Established Member

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    You can ask for whatever you want to ask for; but C2C can also rescind their offer at any point before accepting payment and chose to move to prosecution instead.

    I would suspect that an offer to pay in installments is likely to be accepted favourably, as long as the installments are reasonable.

    While querying the amount is not inherently unreasonable, you should tred carefully if you do this; ie, reiterate your intention to accept their offer, your desire to settle the matter etc. It does I think contain some risk that they will think you're messing them about, though.

    If you don't mind sharing, how much are they offering to settle for and how much are the outstanding fares? You don't need to share full details of your case but it may help if you want more informed advice about whether the amount being asked for is reasonable.

    --
    I note too that you have posted under what is presumably your own name; you should be aware that this is a publicly visible forum.
     
  4. Tomjameson

    Tomjameson New Member

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    Thanks.

    Is is my intention to settle the fares owed, I am not trying to query this it is more that I that to want to ensure the fares owed are correct. I will state that I wish to accept the offer and want the matter to be settled amicably and imminently.

    The full settlement they are offering is c. £800 which is the fares owed plus an admin fee. I.e there is no reduction.

    Thanks
     
  5. 30907

    30907 Established Member

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    You are presumably in a position to know the approximate value of the fares you have evaded/admitted evading (whichever is relevant here).
    From the significant amount you quote, I would hazard a guess that C2C have based their claim on the Anytime Return (rather than the season ticket rate) between two stations A and B, not the difference between fares to A and B from a third station C.
     
  6. ForTheLoveOf

    ForTheLoveOf Established Member

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    Although it might be noted that, if you were prepared to take the matter to Court and risk a criminal conviction (and criminal record), it is more likely that you might be able to negotiate for the appropriate fares owed to be taken as the amount owed in terms of compensation. In a case like this where there is "only" £800 at stake that is on the borderline as to whether or not it is worth it, bearing in mind that, if you aren't intending to mount any defence against the charge itself, you will have to pay for all of the costs of any legal representation you arrange. Ultimately, compensation as part of the sentence for any conviction is there to put the 'victim' back in the position they were before the offence was committed; charging for an Anytime (Day) Return rather than season ticket(s) is not consistent with this if season ticket(s) would be cheaper.

    I doubt, however, that c2c would agree to a lesser out of Court settlement unless you were to involve a solicitor very soon.
     
  7. Tomjameson

    Tomjameson New Member

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    Thanks

    I was told that they would work out what I should have paid less what I did actually pay . It is in regard to weekly season tickets so I am assuming it should be weekly cost between a and b less what I was paying between a and c - a set difference over the duration however i am coming to a different figure not huge in variance but surely I am entitled to be shown how this figure has been comprised.
     
  8. Haywain

    Haywain Established Member

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    I don't believe that you are entitled to anything at all in respect of an out of court settlement. In court, the case is very different but would add a fine, a criminal record and a higher level of costs to any fares due.
     
  9. Hadders

    Hadders Established Member

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    It appears on the limited amount of information we have that c2c might be able to successfully prosecute you for fraud, should they so wish.

    You might want to consider whether you want to take this risk in court or pay up now to make the matter go away.
     
  10. ForTheLoveOf

    ForTheLoveOf Established Member

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    There is no 'surely' about it. They aren't obliged to give you a breakdown any more than if you go into a supermarket you can ask for a breakdown of why a pint of milk costs £1, for example!

    It's different to if they were claiming a contractual debt (i.e. in the County Court). There you might put them to strict proof of the debt, and they would effectively be forced to give a breakdown to justify it. But here, as all they are saying is that they are willing to negotiate a certain settlement, a contract if you will, they are under no obligation to give any kind of breakdown.
     
  11. cuccir

    cuccir Established Member

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    If the figure is not that huge, I'd suggest that the risk of losing the settlement is likely not to worth it.

    You could also consider looking at the sentencing guidelines for any legislation you might be proseucted under eg for fare evasion or fraud. Note that you'd probably be asked to add costs + fares owed to this amount. You can then consider whether you'd rather pay the settlement or any fine set by court.
     
  12. Fawkes Cat

    Fawkes Cat Member

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    A lot of C2C users commute into financial jobs in the City. I will assume that that is your position, although if it isn't, this post may not apply to you.

    In the past, we have seen cases where people looking for help from this forum have been very concerned about the impact of a conviction on their employability in finance. Our general advice is that there is a limit to what account employers are allowed to take of court convictions. But in this case, where you currently seem to have a choice between paying an out of court settlement and facing prosecution, you might want to think about the benefits of compromising and accepting the settlement to keep the matter out of court.
     
  13. island

    island Established Member

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    They’re not required to provide you with a breakdown or to negotiate the settlement figure. If you press for either, the settlement may be withdrawn and you may be prosecuted.

    They may agree a payment plan but it is only likely to be for a couple of months, because if you don’t pay and they want to prosecute, they only have 6 months from the date of the alleged offences, and part of that time is already elapsed.
     

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