Advice on unexpected type of ticket

[ModernRailways]

Touch out and in at Farringdon when changing between LU and FCC is definitely not required. Oyster has its quirks, but that isn't one of them!

Well I was charged full fare because the Oyster didn't know where I had been when I touched out. Went straight to ticket office and she asked if I had changed anywhere so I told her 'Yes, at Farringdon' and she said 'Oh, did you touch out on the little reader on the wall, then touch back in on the Metropolitan platforms.' I told her I hadn't and she said that that would have been the cause. Farringdon does have the huge ticket hall at the south end of the station which is Thameslink only and the Underground also has one, but their is a bridge in the middle (towards the north end of the station) and at the bottom of each stairs there are the little wall validators and according to her I was supposed to use them.

 

[MikeWh]

Well I was charged full fare because the Oyster didn't know where I had been when I touched out. Went straight to ticket office and she asked if I had changed anywhere so I told her 'Yes, at Farringdon' and she said 'Oh, did you touch out on the little reader on the wall, then touch back in on the Metropolitan platforms.' I told her I hadn't and she said that that would have been the cause. Farringdon does have the huge ticket hall at the south end of the station which is Thameslink only and the Underground also has one, but their is a bridge in the middle (towards the north end of the station) and at the bottom of each stairs there are the little wall validators and according to her I was supposed to use them.

I must admit that I'm skeptical about needing to touch out and in again, especially at validators. I know Farringdon has undergone serious changes while being rebuilt, but given that the westbound tube and northbound thameslink are adjacent platforms linked by several sets of 6-7 steps, it can't be a requirement to double touch there.

If you can post your entire journey history for the day in question I can see if there's an alternative explanation. You may have exceeded the maximum journey time, for instance, or encountered some other quirk.

 

[ModernRailways]

I must admit that I'm skeptical about needing to touch out and in again, especially at validators. I know Farringdon has undergone serious changes while being rebuilt, but given that the westbound tube and northbound thameslink are adjacent platforms linked by several sets of 6-7 steps, it can't be a requirement to double touch there.

If you can post your entire journey history for the day in question I can see if there's an alternative explanation. You may have exceeded the maximum journey time, for instance, or encountered some other quirk.

I don't yet have an Oyster online account, otherwise I would have done. It could well be I spent too long but from what I remember I went Chislehurst - Farringdon - Victoria. And it didn't take 90 minutes to get from Chislehurst to Victoria even with the changes involved. More of 1 hour.

I would like to know whether the woman at the ticket office did tell the truth or just made up a lie so as not to make the Oyster look stupid. I must admit too that I normally just use paper travelcards now since it's easier to use.

 

[MikeWh]

I don't yet have an Oyster online account, otherwise I would have done. It could well be I spent too long but from what I remember I went Chislehurst - Farringdon - Victoria. And it didn't take 90 minutes to get from Chislehurst to Victoria even with the changes involved. More of 1 hour.

I would like to know whether the woman at the ticket office did tell the truth or just made up a lie so as not to make the Oyster look stupid. I must admit too that I normally just use paper travelcards now since it's easier to use.

Ah-ha! When you say you were charged the maximum fare, was that the actual normal incomplete journey charge, or just more than you were expecting?

Chislehurst to London Victoria NR is £2.90/£4.70.
Chislehurst to Vicloria LU however is £4.30/£6.20.
The incomplete journey charge is £4.90/£7.20.

When you go to Victoria NR it assumes you do the whole thing on NR (eg via Petts Wood) so charges you for a zone 1-5 NR journey. If you switch to the Underground it then becomes a zone 1-5 NR+TfL through journey. This includes the surcharge for mixing modes on a journey involving zone 1. The incomplete journey charge is slightly more because it includes zone 6, ie the through fare from Orpington.

 

[ModernRailways]

Ah-ha! When you say you were charged the maximum fare, was that the actual normal incomplete journey charge, or just more than you were expecting?

Chislehurst to London Victoria NR is £2.90/£4.70.
Chislehurst to Vicloria LU however is £4.30/£6.20.
The incomplete journey charge is £4.90/£7.20.

When you go to Victoria NR it assumes you do the whole thing on NR (eg via Petts Wood) so charges you for a zone 1-5 NR journey. If you switch to the Underground it then becomes a zone 1-5 NR+TfL through journey. This includes the surcharge for mixing modes on a journey involving zone 1. The incomplete journey charge is slightly more because it includes zone 6, ie the through fare from Orpington.

I'd already travelled that day so already had the Zones 1-6 Day travelcard price capped at my railcard price then this was charged as extra at the incomplete journey price. The only reason I know is because I always top up my Oyster with cash on the day to the price that it would be capped it allowing me to then know if it does mess up.

 

[MikeWh]

I'd already travelled that day so already had the Zones 1-6 Day travelcard price capped at my railcard price then this was charged as extra at the incomplete journey price. The only reason I know is because I always top up my Oyster with cash on the day to the price that it would be capped it allowing me to then know if it does mess up.

Hmmmm. If this happened within the last 8 weeks then request a statement by email following the instructions on my site. You don't have to have an online account to use that service. It might take a few days to arrive, but it will give me a clue what has gone wrong. If you can also remember what you think your other journeys were that day it would be helpful. Were you roving around?

 

[PaxVobiscum]

And as anticipated, the correct tickets arrived first class post this morning (the refund will take a little longer).

Thanks to all who answered my questions and contributed to the interesting discussion. The more I read about Oyster the less I am inclined to get one until I absolutely have to. However I would be quite happy to use one of the ScotRail smartcards being introduced up here, because our local rail network is much simpler to understand and the kind of complication mentioned above is unlikely.

Interesting differences in points of detail between the Day Travelcards issued by ScotRail and the ones previously issued by VisitBritain, but perhaps mainly because of different LU and National Rail formats? (It's years since I brought an ordinary LU ticket).

 

[transportphoto]

I'm glad it's been sorted, I did note earlier that they'd listen to a recording before making any decision. Did they ask you to post the tickets back to them? Did they give you a freepost address to do this?


The tickets issued by ScotRail take the same format as all National Rail issued Travelcards, I believe that Visit Britain is a TFL appointed agent which retails the travelcards from a stock of pre printed tickets, they simply stamp the date and encode the magnetic strip where as the National Rail issued ones come out in exactly the same way as a normal rail ticket would, with all the usual details.

TP

 

[Be3G]

That is indeed the case; the VisitBritain one is on the same stock as travelcards purchased from newsagent ticket stops back when one could do so. A travelcard purchased from a London Underground station actually looks like this.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

I'm glad it's been sorted, I did note earlier that they'd listen to a recording before making any decision. Did they ask you to post the tickets back to them? Did they give you a freepost address to do this?
TP

Tickets were posted back - I was expecting that. And no, no Freepost, but I didn't pay to have them posted out so I'm not going to quibble with forking out the cost of a stamp.

I once had to put out serious money to courier faulty Pro video equipment back to the manufacturer for a "free" replacement and gave up trying to get that refunded so I really can't be *rsed making an issue of it on this occasion. As I said before, I should really have checked what tickets they were about to send out.

 

[ModernRailways]

Hmmmm. If this happened within the last 8 weeks then request a statement by email following the instructions on my site. You don't have to have an online account to use that service. It might take a few days to arrive, but it will give me a clue what has gone wrong. If you can also remember what you think your other journeys were that day it would be helpful. Were you roving around?

I would do that, but it was just over 9 weeks ago (19th December). It was mostly bashing the trains around London, I'll edit this post with what I recall doing when I get back.

Okay, here is what I did.

Topped up Oyster with £5.90 at East Croydon
East Croydon - London Bridge (Southern) (touched out)
London Bridge - Kings Cross St Pancras (LUL) (touched out)
Kings Cross - Green Park (LUL)
Green Park - Waterloo (LUL) (touched out)
Waterloo East - Lewisham (South Eastern) (touched out)
Lewisham - Bank (DLR)
Monument - Victoria (LUL) (touched out)
Victoria - Sutton (Southern) (touched out)
Sutton - Cricklewood (FCC) (touched out)
Cricklewood - Farringdon (FCC)
Farringdon - Victoria (LUL) (touched out)

That's a rough guess as to what I had already done up to the point my card wouldn't let me out. I've added where I touched out just so you can see where else I may have been charged full fare. I've also added who I traveled with.