Advice on what new car to buy.

[Bletchleyite]

They need to use genuine parts though, which they won’t.

They don't. This is again considered anticompetitive. It would only be a problem were the parts substandard and so caused the damage.

I literally wouldn’t let them check my tyre pressures!

If that is from bad experience fair enough, but it is often blind prejudice.

 

[bspahh]

"Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement."

You want a garage to have good judgement and experience with the work that you're getting them to do. With simple stuff, anywhere will do. If you have a car that is a new model, or an unusual make, it might be the first of that model a back street mechanic has worked on, and you get to pay for them to learn, or have them try and do the job without a specialised tool.

I had a bracket fall off on my exhaust. The RapidFit Ford garage could only replace the whole system (£1100). They suggested another garage which welded on another one for £40. That place was on an industrial estate had a load of Rover P5s in various states of rust and disrepair, so I think they were practiced at welding rusty steel.

 

[DustyBin]

They don't. This is again considered anticompetitive. It would only be a problem were the parts substandard and so caused the damage.

In reality they do. You’re fitting a non-standard part to your car and the manufacturer will fight tooth and nail to avoid paying out for warranty work. It’s happened previously where a filter manufacturer supplied sub-standard oil filters. Is it really worth it? It’s the definition of “penny wise pound foolish” IMO.

If that is from bad experience fair enough, but it is often blind prejudice.

It actually is (my company car came back with nearly 60psi in its tyres which is absolutely silly). There will of course be some decent guys working in these places, but the type of service they offer doesn’t generally attract good mechanics.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In reality they do. You’re fitting a non-standard part to your car and the manufacturer will fight tooth and nail to avoid paying out for warranty work. It’s happened previously where a filter manufacturer supplied sub-standard oil filters. Is it really worth it? It’s the definition of “penny wise pound foolish” IMO.

I have had such poor experiences with main dealers that I would do anything to avoid them.

It actually is (my company car came back with nearly 60psi in its tyres which is absolutely silly). There will of course be some decent guys working in these places, but the type of service they offer doesn’t generally attract good mechanics.

You don't need "good mechanics" to do basic servicing. An ability to complete a checklist of very simple procedures and not to mind stripping your knuckles is all that is needed.

 

[DustyBin]

I have had such poor experiences with main dealers that I would do anything to avoid them.

Don’t get me wrong there are some poor ones but they should be trained on the vehicles on which they work. Not giving a t*ss is the main issue I suspect……

You don't need "good mechanics" to do basic servicing. An ability to complete a checklist of very simple procedures and not to mind stripping your knuckles is all that is needed.

I don’t disagree, but a bit of pride in what you’re doing makes a big difference.

 

[dgl]

we've had no bad experience with the two Nissan main dealers we've been to, plus a service gets you a free year of European RAC cover which is handy.

For tyres we use a local independant that sells Falken tyres, went there once late in the day to see if they could look at one of our tyres, they checked and inflated all if them for free and it turned out one was shot and the other was nearly gone, the shot one was replaced there and then and the other replaced the next morning (they only had one in).
Another customer there had had tyres previously replaced at a Kwik Fit and had fitted the wrong tyres for that brand of vehicle, the mechanic did not say what he truly thought of Kwik Fit as he didn't want to swear around customers!

 

[MotCO]

I once had a flat tyre, pumped it up and took it to Kwikfit. They couldn't find anything wrong with it, and I also queried whether it was the valve. Surprise surprise it went flat again, and the RAC just tightened the valve!

Conversely, I have had my cars serviced by a main Vauxhall dealer for over 20 years. Never had a problem with them - but they are a small branch. A larger main dealer once treated me like an ignoramus and an inconvenience - never went to them again.

 

[Grumpy Git]

On the other hand, I once went to a Jaguar garage looking to buy a car but they didn't take me seriously, perhaps because I was wearing shorts, and in the end I spent a lot of money (more than the cost of my first house) with another garage.

I was looking for a new car about 2005 when Mercedes had just moved to their current showroom in Liverpool.

I couldn't get anyone to speak with and noticed a gaggle of people around a desk. When I asked for some help I was told "we are busy making a video" or words to that effect, and have never darkened their door since. Funny how they can afford to write off a potential £30K plus sale (at that time).

 

[david1212]

"Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement."

You want a garage to have good judgement and experience with the work that you're getting them to do. With simple stuff, anywhere will do. If you have a car that is a new model, or an unusual make, it might be the first of that model a back street mechanic has worked on, and you get to pay for them to learn, or have them try and do the job without a specialised tool ....

Even with something simple often a need to reset the ICU.

Don’t get me wrong there are some poor ones but they should be trained on the vehicles on which they work. Not giving a t*ss is the main issue I suspect……

I don’t disagree, but a bit of pride in what you’re doing makes a big difference.

I once had a flat tyre, pumped it up and took it to Kwikfit. They couldn't find anything wrong with it, and I also queried whether it was the valve. Surprise surprise it went flat again, and the RAC just tightened the valve!

Conversely, I have had my cars serviced by a main Vauxhall dealer for over 20 years. Never had a problem with them - but they are a small branch. A larger main dealer once treated me like an ignoramus and an inconvenience - never went to them again.

IMO that is key. The person doing the work must make a connection that if not properly done and then an issue it reflects on the business and future custom. For a chain franchise in a city or large town there is enough business not to matter. For all from the cleaner to the branch manager more important to meet set targets and appease the management all the way up the chain.

Core to me buying another Skoda was having a local independent specialist, large enough to have the skills, tools and experience but small enough to know every customer matters as well as lower overheads so a workshop rate half that of the franchised stealer dealer.

So as no argument if a claim I had two services done by the franchised dealer nearest work. Now the warranty has expired using them again would be absolute last resort.

I would never use the nearest dealer to home. Years ago I went to look at a car on the forecourt and was there a while but no-one came out. Later when I did have a problem and went to discuss they were totally non interested. I later learnt of someone who took their car there with the only instruction to do a diagnostic check at whatever ever fee they charge. When they tried to drive away they found the car had been made undriveable. In comparison my first visit to the independent specialist was for a diagnostic check. Once I knew the fault and the cost I pondered if to pay for the work or change the car. I made this clear and wanted to pay but they refused to accept. I did in the end have the repair done.

 

[MotCO]

Conversely, I have had my cars serviced by a main Vauxhall dealer for over 20 years. Never had a problem with them - but they are a small branch. A larger main dealer once treated me like an ignoramus and an inconvenience - never went to them again.

I forgot to mention that over the 20 years, they had the same manager and deputy.

 

[Cowley]

Thank you for your replies so far. That is very helpful. I shall have a look at the cars that were mentioned.

My current car is a Skoda Estelle.

I didn't realise just how old my car was! It shows how bad my memory is! I have just now gone through my paperwork and realised that i bought it in January 1978 which means it is now just over 44 years old. I meant to buy a new car years ago but i just keep putting it off. My car is in such bad shape now after almost daily use for 44 years and has extremely high mileage so i have told myself i need to 100% get it done and buy a new car by the end of this year.

I use my car every day to get to and from work. I work in a very rural location and finish late at night so a car has always been essential to get to and from work. But when i go any further i use the train to get anywhere else in the UK. So it is mainly just for work. However i also used it every year (at least before the corona virus started) to go on holiday to other countries at least once a year. I have driven it to all different places in Europe and even parts of Asia and Africa so it has very high mileage. But for the most part i just need a car for shorter journeys to and from work every day

Preferably i am looking for a 4 door average size car. I definitely do not want a very large car or SUV or any of these ridiculous monsters that drive around on the roads these days.

The reason i do not want an automatic transmission is because i have never driven one before. I have always driven a manual transmission so that is what i am most familiar with. But i suppose i could give it a go and take a test drive and see what i think of one. The same goes for why i do not want an electric car. I would just prefer something more familiar to me.

I think the main problem for me is that cars these days are just so different to how cars were built over fourty years ago so it is such a big change to adjust to. So that is why i am looking for a very simple basic car with a basic standard dashboard without any of these new added features.

That’s amazing keeping your Skoda going for that amount of time! I think the longest I’ve ever owned a vehicle for is about nine years.

I haven’t had a chance to read this thread yet but are you any further forward with making a decision on what to get next?

Oh and maybe the thread could do with a bit of nudge back on course looking at the last few posts…

 

[matacaster]

In your opinion. I'm quite happy with it!!

Think power steering was mainly to make it possible for weaker men and most women to drive all vehicles.

I use KwikFit in Wilmslow and they're good too.

My partner found that his main dealer was more keen on ripping him off with unnecessary work, so he dumped them.

I was in KwikFit once and someone came in off the street and described his car problem and asked if he could bring it in to be looked at; "no need" said the chap and quickly described what the problem was and the simple solution (I've totally forgotten what this was now) so the motorist went away happy.

On the other hand, I once went to a Jaguar garage looking to buy a car but they didn't take me seriously, perhaps because I was wearing shorts, and in the end I spent a lot of money (more than the cost of my first house) with another garage.

Local Jaguar main dealer £130/hour....and no I wouldn't dream of using them!

 

[Joe Paxton]

[...]
I used Copilot in the past but I found it not as good as Waze. Waze is also far better than the built in Google Maps navigation - given that Google owned shares in it at one point I'm surprised they didn't incorporate it.

Google wholly owns Waze and has done since buying it in 2013.

 

[birchesgreen]

In your opinion. I'm quite happy with it!!

I learned to drive with power steering cars but my first car was pretty primitive without it (and a manual choke), i remember my arms aching like hell after the first few drives

 

[DustyBin]

I learned to drive with power steering cars but my first car was pretty primitive without it (and a manual choke), i remember my arms aching like hell after the first few drives

Same here! Power steering is great, although personally I prefer hydraulic assistance to electric. A lot of modern cars have very light steering so on performance models manufacturers actually add weight back in to provide some feel. I remember buying my first Fiesta ST in 2014 and reading a review that commented along the lines of “the steering feel is so good we thought it was hydraulic”.

 

[jon0844]

Google wholly owns Waze and has done since buying it in 2013.

Yet there are still many differences, and despite Google's ownership the map data differs suggesting they are still running it separately for now. This means Waze will show more localised information, submitted by users, and Maps has the better search facilities for finding places (not that Waze is bad either).

I prefer Waze for the UI and the improved traffic/incident reporting, and my ability to help contribute information (and confirm the accuracy of other information).

I am sure many people who are familiar with Maps will be quite happy with the navigation it offers, and may never know the differences if they haven't tried Waze.

To make this relevant to the OP, I would say Android Auto/Apple Car Play is a very, very important feature to have. Many in-car systems are slow and clunky, especially at the lower end of the market, and being able to use your phone to navigate, play Spotify (or whatever) and manage calls, texts etc is a Godsend.

 

[railwaytrack]

That’s amazing keeping your Skoda going for that amount of time! I think the longest I’ve ever owned a vehicle for is about nine years.

I haven’t had a chance to read this thread yet but are you any further forward with making a decision on what to get next?

Oh and maybe the thread could do with a bit of nudge back on course looking at the last few posts…

I think i am just one of those people who doesn't like change so i keep the same thing for as long as possible if they still work. I think i also have the attitude of if it is not broken why fix it so that is probably why i have kept my Skoda Estelle for so long. But it is so old now so i really need to finally replace it. Whatever new car i end up purchasing i doubt it will last as long as my Skoda Estelle has. Most new things these days don't seem to last long.

I have a bit of spare time when i am off work next week so i am planning to use that to go and visit a few car dealerships and get some test drives. I have made a list of around ten or fifteen cars (mainly the ones that were mentioned in this thread) that i am hoping to take a look at. So i shall have a look at them all and get test drives and see what i think of them.

It will probably be a couple of months until i make my final decision and make my purchase as i want to be sure i am getting a good car that is right for me.

 

[EssexGonzo]

I think i am just one of those people who doesn't like change so i keep the same thing for as long as possible if they still work. I think i also have the attitude of if it is not broken why fix it so that is probably why i have kept my Skoda Estelle for so long. But it is so old now so i really need to finally replace it. Whatever new car i end up purchasing i doubt it will last as long as my Skoda Estelle has. Most new things these days don't seem to last long.

I have a bit of spare time when i am off work next week so i am planning to use that to go and visit a few car dealerships and get some test drives. I have made a list of around ten or fifteen cars (mainly the ones that were mentioned in this thread) that i am hoping to take a look at. So i shall have a look at them all and get test drives and see what i think of them.

It will probably be a couple of months until i make my final decision and make my purchase as i want to be sure i am getting a good car that is right for me.

Good luck with the search. And well done for keeping your Estelle going for so long!

There are many opinions on what to look at in this thread - here are mine, based on experience rather than heresay.

- If you want to keep your car for a long time, try Japanese first, Korean second. A Honda Jazz will last 20 years with very little TLC - ours from new is 18 this month and has had a hard life.

- Hyundai and Kia do many medium sized cars, still with manual gearboxes. The latter has 7 years warranty, Toyota offers 10 years if you use their dealers for service.

- Anything from Dacia is worth a look. Good value, no-nonsense, some even don’t have touchscreens. They’re Renaults underneath, but that’s the same as a Nissan nowadays. I’ve rented them in France and they feel bulletproof.

- Skodas are basically (quite good) VWs nowadays - but they’re touchscreen systems in newer cars are rubbish. I’d avoid them.

Let us know what you decide!!

 

[JohnMcL7]

Good luck with the search. And well done for keeping your Estelle going for so long!

There are many opinions on what to look at in this thread - here are mine, based on experience rather than heresay.

- If you want to keep your car for a long time, try Japanese first, Korean second. A Honda Jazz will last 20 years with very little TLC - ours from new is 18 this month and has had a hard life.

I had VW cars for a while but the reliability of Hondas some of my friends had and my Mum's Mazda was that good I bought a Mazda myself which is now 11 years old and only had one real fault where the stereo amp failed. It's the longest I've ever had a car and the least issues so would certainly agree with the Japanese recommendation which most surveys show as well.

I use a very good back street garage that seems to be able to fix anything from little race cars to tractors while the main dealer quoted me some stupid amount of money to repair a problem on the car at four years old which turned out to be a known issue with leaves building up in the system which the back street garage found no problem. I'm sure it works well in getting people into lease or PCP deals especially when I see the number of people coming to the end of a PCP but can't get a new car and worried about horrific bills if they keep the car beyond three years old.

 

[Gloster]

One thing I find different in the Sandero from my old Mini is the seat position. In the Mini I was low down, but sitting upright: in the Sandero I am (probably) a bit higher, but not so upright. This is particularly noticeable when judging distances over the near side front wing.

 

[EssexGonzo]

I had VW cars for a while but the reliability of Hondas some of my friends had and my Mum's Mazda was that good I bought a Mazda myself which is now 11 years old and only had one real fault where the stereo amp failed. It's the longest I've ever had a car and the least issues so would certainly agree with the Japanese recommendation which most surveys show as well.

I use a very good back street garage that seems to be able to fix anything from little race cars to tractors while the main dealer quoted me some stupid amount of money to repair a problem on the car at four years old which turned out to be a known issue with leaves building up in the system which the back street garage found no problem. I'm sure it works well in getting people into lease or PCP deals especially when I see the number of people coming to the end of a PCP but can't get a new car and worried about horrific bills if they keep the car beyond three years old.

We also have another Japanese car - a Lexus, also bought new. Had it 5 years and we’ll also have it beyond 10 years, especially now that they (like Toyota) offer the 10 year warranty if you get is serviced by them.

Absolutely nothing outside of routine has required attention in 55k miles.

My 2019 Golf, as a contrast, is going back to the lease company in June at 3 years old. I’m really glad I didn’t buy it. A wheel bearing and a new adaptive headlight would have set me back close to £1,500 had they failed 6 months after they did.

 

[Snow1964]

A bit of a wild card, but Citroen have introduced a new entry level C3 at £12,995.

It is quite rare to find any car with a retail price under £13k nowadays. If you wanted to stick with Skoda, then not going to find anything under £15k as no longer a budget brand that it used to be

 

[A0wen]

If you wanted to stick with Skoda, then not going to find anything under £15k as no longer a budget brand that it used to be

So what *should* a budget car cost then ?

To put that comment in context if you rewind to 1986 (which I am old enough to remember) the "budget" cars of the time were the Eastern Bloc ones - the FSOs Ladas, Skodas, Yugos - most of them were using designs that were about 20 years old, were agricultural to drive (yes I had a go at a couple), desperately unrefined - even against cars like the Mk1 Fiesta (which itself was 10 years old by then) or the Austin Metro. So how much did one of those Eastern Bloc delights cost you ? Between £ 3000 - £ 4000 depending on which variant - the more expensive ones had "luxuries" like velour upholstery as opposed to vinyl and if you were lucky a push button MW/LW radio instead of a gap. In current prices that's ~ £ 7800 - £ 10,000.

The spiritual successor to those is Dacia - the cheapest Sandero is £ 11,495 - not a 20 year old cast off Fiat design, instead a modern, safe, hatchback. Bear in mind the only "mainstream" cars in those days which were less than about £ 4000 were things like the Mini, Fiat Panda or Citroen 2CV - so small, old designs and not particularly refined. Certainly not usable as a family car.

 

[cactustwirly]

So what *should* a budget car cost then ?

To put that comment in context if you rewind to 1986 (which I am old enough to remember) the "budget" cars of the time were the Eastern Bloc ones - the FSOs Ladas, Skodas, Yugos - most of them were using designs that were about 20 years old, were agricultural to drive (yes I had a go at a couple), desperately unrefined - even against cars like the Mk1 Fiesta (which itself was 10 years old by then) or the Austin Metro. So how much did one of those Eastern Bloc delights cost you ? Between £ 3000 - £ 4000 depending on which variant - the more expensive ones had "luxuries" like velour upholstery as opposed to vinyl and if you were lucky a push button MW/LW radio instead of a gap. In current prices that's ~ £ 7800 - £ 10,000.

The spiritual successor to those is Dacia - the cheapest Sandero is £ 11,495 - not a 20 year old cast off Fiat design, instead a modern, safe, hatchback. Bear in mind the only "mainstream" cars in those days which were less than about £ 4000 were things like the Mini, Fiat Panda or Citroen 2CV - so small, old designs and not particularly refined. Certainly not usable as a family car.

The Sandero is an old cast of Renault design...

 

[A0wen]

The Sandero is an old cast of Renault design...

Not in the same vein as the Lada / FSO / Yugo ones.

In those cases Fiat sold them the old production lines for, as I recall, the Fiat 124, 125 and 127 respectively. Mechanically they were home grown - they didn't use the current Fiat engines, instead they took old OHV units and reworked them - and the suspension was quite widely changed.

With Dacia Sandero, they used the *floorpan* of the previous generation Clio but are also using current Renault engines, gearboxes and switch gear. The bodywork is Dacia's own design - so the whole package is quite different in approach and it's far from being an 'old Renault design' in the way the old Eastern Bloc cars were.

 

[birchesgreen]

Thats all good to know about the Sandero as i have just ordered one...

 

[trainmania100]

Ah the dreaded 1.0 wet belt change! Other than that though it’s a great little engine, my mother is on her second (Focus then C-Max).

It’s worth noting that the EcoBoost name has been applied to a number of completely unrelated engines over the years, although the 1.0 is often thought of as the EcoBoost. Even the 2.3 in my Focus is an EcoBoost, although it makes a mockery of the “Eco” moniker!

Unfortunately my local garage have advised they can't change the belt and am now facing around £1250 by my nearest ford dealer .

Can't imagine it would cost that much more for a reconditioned engine , wonder which would be better

 

[DustyBin]

Unfortunately my local garage have advised they can't change the belt and am now facing around £1250 by my nearest ford dealer .

Can't imagine it would cost that much more for a reconditioned engine , wonder which would be better

It’s typical of the kind of job many independent garages will shy away from to be honest. A reconditioned engine will be upwards of £1.5k but that won’t allow for a new turbo (or ancillary components).

Personally I’d look up some Ford specialists online and see if you could take the car to them (assuming the price is right). They may appear to be more interested in performance models (ST, RS etc.) and to be honest they probably are, but they’ll have the knowledge and ability to do what you need doing. It’s certainly worth exploring before paying main dealer prices anyway.

 

[The Ham]

Unfortunately my local garage have advised they can't change the belt and am now facing around £1250 by my nearest ford dealer .

Can't imagine it would cost that much more for a reconditioned engine , wonder which would be better

Cam belts are the sort of thing that can go very won't is you don't get it right, so mechanics can be cautious about doing them. As others have said shop around, even ask your local garage of they know anyone other than main dealers who would do it.

Although it should be noted that you might not get a lot of change from £1,000 even then.

My Grand C-max host has it's done (and with a radiator replacement at the same time) at a local garage and it wasn't much below £1,000.

We could have shopped around a bit more, but then the inconvenience of traveling 10+ miles, rather than <1 mile, wasn't worth the inconvenience to us.

 

[trainmania100]

Cam belts are the sort of thing that can go very won't is you don't get it right, so mechanics can be cautious about doing them. As others have said shop around, even ask your local garage of they know anyone other than main dealers who would do it.

Although it should be noted that you might not get a lot of change from £1,000 even then.

My Grand C-max host has it's done (and with a radiator replacement at the same time) at a local garage and it wasn't much below £1,000.

We could have shopped around a bit more, but then the inconvenience of traveling 10+ miles, rather than <1 mile, wasn't worth the inconvenience to us.

Will shop around , but my nearest ford authorised service garage quotes the £1250 for 2 day job and I can't see it being much less anywhere else, mainly because they're going to see the surge in demand now and cash in on it.

Don't mind paying that sort of money, it's been a fantastic car and never needed any major work done, so don't mind spending a grand or two once in a while, my biggest concern are they going to actually do the work or pretend it's done