Advice Please - Hoping They Have The Evidence of My Idiocy

[idiot1]

Hi all

I wondered if anyone could advise please. I'm an idiot (criminal!) - been short faring. Got caught. Issued with MG11. Ignorance of severity is no excuse, I have none, I'm still sat here scared trying to settle in the realness of it all.

I used to live in Essex, commute to work in London, very occasional different stops coming home, just normal life, all on my debit card, all legit.

(Concerning stations London Victoria and 25 return to station in Kent). Southeastern Railway.

I started travelling to Kent on (normally) one evening a week, back to london next morning. I'd go to Kent by bus on a saturday and monday I'd go to work from kent - I was seeing my partner, hence the one or 2 days Kent side. I short fared. Not always. Sometimes I'd bottle out and end up buying a proper ticket anyway. Sometimes it beat me down enough I'd not even get on, and catch a bus home to Essex instead, missing work. It really was a source of anxiety for me, and messed up, the 25 quid a time was killing my ability to save for house deposit - scared to lose our opportunity, extremely embarrassed at my finances... my partner is livid. And very hurt. None of that is excuse, just what my head was doing - feels like I might as well have stuck the train up with pistols, I know I shouldn't have done it. I felt like I could save for our future or see her regularly (once in week, and over weekend). I did do both for a while and found myself not managing it. Unsurprisingly, I've only just gained any grip on my finances in general recently and I'm 36!

Worse maybe, having moved to kent in lockdown, I still travelled one return journey a week, which is 25 a time and I kept up short faring, so about 8.20 - and only a few weeks ago, did the thing where I bottle out and buy a proper ticket anyway. I know my priorities were wrong. My weird head and body tried telling me too. I never felt jovial or clever doing this thing. Should have listened.

I was open and honest - I'm a good guy outside of this nonsense, I've heard of not being forthcoming with what'll get you in trouble later, "they can only prove..." blah blah - I don't want to hide, I know I've done bad, I'm terrified but just want it all sorted, not sit there batting back and forward, I don't want to dodge it. I think I'm going to prison, losing my job, killing my career and losing my love her home. I feel like I've blown it. Nearing a time where I'd be in the office more frequently, and yes I was going to get a season ticket loan from work, but I know saying that helps nothing. I told the plain clothes guys everything though probably panic-jumbled. They were really nice with me, props to them. I always knew it'd come but had hoped I'd have my one location, one season ticket and be very sorry and pay it all back now I'm past the mad house deposit years. I was never proud doing it - and that helps nothing.

Probably a million questions I need to ask but right now I can only think about how to sort it, so -

Always used my debit card, very rarely credit card, always bought A ticket, so I'm hoping they have a log of every time I've done it. Will they?

I'm absolutely pooing it and the thought of having to audit it all myself is scaring me more in case I mess it up - I hope they can see it all and just beat me with sticks now. I'd love to pay out of court but too worried to think straight and it was about 3 years, mostly twice a week, sometimes once. I'm sure this is no slap, no quiet payment. I think I've mashed my future and everything I've strived for. Really not cut out for crime!

Thanks so much for any advice

 

[Haywain]

To start with, the chances of you going to prison are vanishingly small for a first offence. The chances of settling out of court are much better than you appear to think, but it will cost you so you should start saving. You will receive a letter in a few weeks, assuming you have only just been issued the MG11, and once it is clear what that says you will be able to respond. There are many other threads here which will indicate what the content of your response should be. In the meantime try not to worry yourself too much as it will not to do you any good.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

To reinforce @Haywain ‘s good advice:

This will almost certainly not end up with you in prison. And there’s a fair chance that you will be able to agree a settlement with the railway which means that the matter never goes to court.

But even if the matter does go to court and you lose, then your job is probably not at risk. There’s two reasons why I say this:
- a lot of employers are quite good about employees having picked up convictions outside work. If it doesn’t affect your ability to do your job then they may well accept that you made a mistake and you have learnt from it so you won’t do it again.
- there’s also the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974. Essentially, for most offences (including fare-dodging) and for most purposes, after a year or so you don’t have to tell anyone about a conviction. There are some exemptions to this (people working in personal care or as a doctor or nurse for example, some financial jobs as well) but for many jobs if you behave yourself you don’t have a problem.

As I read your post, I don’t think that you are arguing against the facts. But in all likelihood the main punishment you face will probably be financial.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

I'd say it's a reasonable assumption they'll identify you as a potential repeat offender, buy I doubt it will make any difference at this point?

Good job you've been saving for a home deposit anyway! Hopefully that means you've got some savings.

If it goes to court, and you pless guilty, there won't be much change from £500, assuming you don't earn more than £440 a week. If you do, probably not much change from £700-£800. You'd also end up with a criminal record.

So essentially you want to settle out of court to prevent the criminal record really. I suspect a settlement is also going to be far cheaper (depending on what they calculate the evaded fares total so far, plus their costs etc). Just wait for the inevitable letter from them and return to this forum. I'd keep your savings handy though, will be 3 figures to settle almost certainly.

Only times you will end up in prison:

1) You've already been convicted on several previous occasions of fare evasion or
2) Magistrates Courts can detain you in their cells for a full day in lieu of a fine, but this is usually only reserved for people who have absolutely zero prospect of ever being able to pay, e.g. the homeless, severely afflicted drug addicts, odd ball characters etc.

 

[RPI]

Hi all

I wondered if anyone could advise please. I'm an idiot (criminal!) - been short faring. Got caught. Issued with MG11. Ignorance of severity is no excuse, I have none, I'm still sat here scared trying to settle in the realness of it all.

I used to live in Essex, commute to work in London, very occasional different stops coming home, just normal life, all on my debit card, all legit.

(Concerning stations London Victoria and 25 return to station in Kent). Southeastern Railway.

I started travelling to Kent on (normally) one evening a week, back to london next morning. I'd go to Kent by bus on a saturday and monday I'd go to work from kent - I was seeing my partner, hence the one or 2 days Kent side. I short fared. Not always. Sometimes I'd bottle out and end up buying a proper ticket anyway. Sometimes it beat me down enough I'd not even get on, and catch a bus home to Essex instead, missing work. It really was a source of anxiety for me, and messed up, the 25 quid a time was killing my ability to save for house deposit - scared to lose our opportunity, extremely embarrassed at my finances... my partner is livid. And very hurt. None of that is excuse, just what my head was doing - feels like I might as well have stuck the train up with pistols, I know I shouldn't have done it. I felt like I could save for our future or see her regularly (once in week, and over weekend). I did do both for a while and found myself not managing it. Unsurprisingly, I've only just gained any grip on my finances in general recently and I'm 36!

Worse maybe, having moved to kent in lockdown, I still travelled one return journey a week, which is 25 a time and I kept up short faring, so about 8.20 - and only a few weeks ago, did the thing where I bottle out and buy a proper ticket anyway. I know my priorities were wrong. My weird head and body tried telling me too. I never felt jovial or clever doing this thing. Should have listened.

I was open and honest - I'm a good guy outside of this nonsense, I've heard of not being forthcoming with what'll get you in trouble later, "they can only prove..." blah blah - I don't want to hide, I know I've done bad, I'm terrified but just want it all sorted, not sit there batting back and forward, I don't want to dodge it. I think I'm going to prison, losing my job, killing my career and losing my love her home. I feel like I've blown it. Nearing a time where I'd be in the office more frequently, and yes I was going to get a season ticket loan from work, but I know saying that helps nothing. I told the plain clothes guys everything though probably panic-jumbled. They were really nice with me, props to them. I always knew it'd come but had hoped I'd have my one location, one season ticket and be very sorry and pay it all back now I'm past the mad house deposit years. I was never proud doing it - and that helps nothing.

Probably a million questions I need to ask but right now I can only think about how to sort it, so -

Always used my debit card, very rarely credit card, always bought A ticket, so I'm hoping they have a log of every time I've done it. Will they?

I'm absolutely pooing it and the thought of having to audit it all myself is scaring me more in case I mess it up - I hope they can see it all and just beat me with sticks now. I'd love to pay out of court but too worried to think straight and it was about 3 years, mostly twice a week, sometimes once. I'm sure this is no slap, no quiet payment. I think I've mashed my future and everything I've strived for. Really not cut out for crime!

Thanks so much for any advice

Stop.... take a breath.

Right, you say its about 3 years worth, now its unlikely, but not impossible that they won't chase you for anymore than six months, in order to take you to court for anything other than that period the TOC will have to use legislation such as the fraud act, either way, you'll more than likely receive a settlement offer first.
Were you buying mobile tickets? If so then this does make it incredibly easy for them to piece together previous journeys where you may have short fared but the onus is on them to prove that you did in fact short fare on each of these occasions.

Until you receive correspondence from them outlining exactly what they allege you have done then sit tight then come back.

Were you interviewed at the time? Did the inspector ask you questions about any previous journeys?

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum. We have had a number of similar threads posted recently and I’ve copied below the advice I have previously given in these cases. As noted upthread you are highly unlikely to prison for this but how you engage with the train company will make a difference to the eventual outcome.

You will receive a letter from the train company (or an investigation company acting on their behalf) which will probably take a few weeks to arrive saying that they have received a report, are considering prosecuting you and asking for your version of events. It is important that you engage with and reply to this letter. You might want to include the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before. Most train companies are usually prepared to offer an administrative (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this, and the fact that you have done this several times means that the train company would be well within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court.

If you are offered a settlement the amount varies depending on the train company and circumstances but tend to be a few hundred pounds plus the outstanding fare.

 

[30907]

Just to add: depending on what happened when you were stopped, you may find the letter will simply refer to one occasion.
Also: feel free to come back here with a redacted scan of the letter and a draft of your reply - we can help you keep it short and focused.

 

[furlong]

There've been plenty of reports of SouthEastern willingly settling, though sometimes initially asking for unjustifiably large amounts that are later negotiated downwards. If they make an initial offer that's substantially above the amount of money they actually lost, don't be afraid to respond by suggesting a more accurate lower settlement.

 

[Starmill]

Don't unnecessarily give away in public who you are or what has happened in the past in case Southeastern don't bring it up. They may be interested specifically in the event where they have the facts i.e. where you were stopped. I would add my advice that you really do take care to ensure that you pay the correct fare for your journey in future however.

 

[BluePenguin]

I can’t offer you any helpful advice in regards to dealing with the railway. Although I hope my advice does help you plan and budget better for travelling in the future.

You may be interested to know that there are a lot of people who short fare because they need to save money for other things. Whether for food, child care, bills or a deposit, we could all do with some extra cash.

Similar to you I am currently doing all I can to save up for a house - I also live in Kent. Reducing the number of trips I make and hunting for cheaper tickets has helped. The train is not the only option. In some cases I have used overnight coaches instead when far cheaper. BlaBlaCar and other ride sharing apps are also good options.

Yes, short faring and fare evasion does make travelling by train more affordable. But is the small saving worth it for the stress and anxiety it causes you? Probably not. In any case when you get caught the savings made go out of the window leaving you worse off.


Could you and your partner sit down and calculate what the cost would be for you to visit them X times a week/month? Maybe look into getting a Railcard and travelling on cheapest tickets possible? Southeastern offer Weekender Return and reasonably priced Super off-peak tickets for around £20. Advance singles are only £6.65 from Victoria/Charing Cross/Cannon Street or £9 from St Pancras.


If you can budget for and buy your tickets in advance, then the money is then spent and out of mind. Leaving you to travel in peace and not get yourself into a state about getting into trouble.

If you do need to travel regularly then cutting down spending in other areas of your life might also be worth looking at.

What you have done is not right although I completely empathise and I am sure many others do too. Admit your mistake, let the process take its course, pay up and plan for the future. That house will one day be yours with some careful planning and budgeting

 

[RPI]

I can’t offer you any helpful advice in regards to dealing with the railway. Although I hope my advice does help you plan and budget better for travelling in the future.

You may be interested to know that there are a lot of people who short fare because they need to save money for other things. Whether for food, child care, bills or a deposit, we could all do with some extra cash.

Similar to you I am currently doing all I can to save up for a house - I also live in Kent. Reducing the number of trips I make and hunting for cheaper tickets has helped. The train is not the only option. In some cases I have used overnight coaches instead when far cheaper. BlaBlaCar and other ride sharing apps are also good options.

Yes, short faring and fare evasion does make travelling by train more affordable. But is the small saving worth it for the stress and anxiety it causes you? Probably not. In any case when you get caught the savings made go out of the window leaving you worse off.


Could you and your partner sit down and calculate what the cost would be for you to visit them X times a week/month? Maybe look into getting a Railcard and travelling on cheapest tickets possible? Southeastern offer Weekender Return and reasonably priced Super off-peak tickets for around £20. Advance singles are only £6.65 from Victoria/Charing Cross/Cannon Street or £9 from St Pancras.


If you can budget for and buy your tickets in advance, then the money is then spent and out of mind. Leaving you to travel in peace and not get yourself into a state about getting into trouble.

If you do need to travel regularly then cutting down spending in other areas of your life might also be worth looking at.

What you have done is not right although I completely empathise and I am sure many others do too. Admit your mistake, let the process take its course, pay up and plan for the future. That house will one day be yours with some careful planning and budgeting

Absolutely spot on, for fear of asking an obvious question, has the OP invested in a Network Railcard?