Air bridges with European countries given "green light"

[Butts]

I was wondering why Latvia and Estonia have been missed off the list, despite both having very low infection rates. Whereas Lithuania has been included, despite it being in a bubble with Latvia and Estonia. Wondering what Latvia is doing, I found their government web-site where it clearly lays out that quarantine is waved for all countries with an infection rate that does not exceed 15 individuals per 100,000 over 14 days, and a colour-coded list showing the countries and their infection rates:
National Covid Morbidity Rates
(In case you are wondering, Sweden is coded red with 144.5, travel not recommended & quarantine required, likewise Luxemburg at 48.6. Whereas the UK at 19.2 is coded yellow "Evaluate the need for your trip" & quarantine required, Poland at 10.9 is quarantine not required.)

Simple to understand, and everyone can see the logic. Whereas there is no transparency or attempt at justification whatsoever in Boris's list. Latvia with a very low infection rate is not on our list, whereas Luxemburg (that has a much higher rate and so is coded red by Latvia) is on our no-quarantine list! Our list seems to be more about political wheeler-dealing and pandering to public opinion than any serious attempt at infection control. But that is par for the course with Boris.

110 deaths in the whole Grand Duchy - compares pretty favourably with the UK !!

 

[Belperpete]

110 deaths in the whole Grand Duchy - compares pretty favourably with the UK !!

But then the Grand Duchy has a much smaller population than the UK. You need to compare deaths per head of population.

 

[Jamiescott1]

I'm currently sat in the departure lounge at Luton Airport. Only places open are pret, jd, boots (which has a queue to enter) and whsmith.
About 50% of seats are full, if a bar was open im sure it would make decent money.

Interesting looking at the departure board, 3 flights to Portugal, 1 to Iceland. Both holiday destinations and those going will need to self isolate on return to UK

 

[Butts]

But then the Grand Duchy has a much smaller population than the UK. You need to compare deaths per head of population.

Well in the "World Top 10" as of June 23rd the UK was No 1 with 64.27 deaths per 100,000 - Luxembourg isn't even in the top 10.

Population of about 625,000, I'm no good at Maths but I think 100 odd deaths will be a much lower "hit rate"

 

[Silverlinky]

I don't see how the UK is number one when Belgium has been ahead of us all the way....

San Marino is top (1238/million), then Belgium with 843, Andorra next with 673 then the UK with 652. Spain, Italy, Sweden and France follow on behind meaning the top 8 countries in the list with the highest death rate per capita are all in Europe. USA is in 9th.
The way countries count their deaths is not consistent, so its difficult to compare one with another. Russia is down on 71 deaths per 1 million.....and if you believe that then you believe anything.

As for Luxembourg, probably worth pointing out that they actually have a higher CASE RATE than the UK..... 7,223 per million compared with UK's 4,209 per million.

 

[kevin_roche]

As for Luxembourg, probably worth pointing out that they actually have a higher CASE RATE than the UK..... 7,223 per million compared with UK's 4,209 per million.

I have not idea how Luxembourg counts cases but here in the UK cases were not counted unless they got a positive test. For quite a while you could not get a test unless you had both a high temperature and a cough. It became clear recently that some people only had a high temperature for a short period so could miss that completely. Since we are not doing asymptomatic testing we really don't know. Two people I know, have recently had antibody tests and found they have had covid despite never having that combination of symptoms.

 

[yorkie]

Just a gentle reminder that this thread is to discuss Air bridges with European countries given "green light"

The forum has plenty of spare capacity available for threads to discuss any other topic

(Some posts have been moved to https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...untries-in-certain-areas-when-it-isnt.206263/ )

 

[Richard Scott]

Friend of mine said that you're only allowed to enter/exit one country. Is that true? If so puts the brakes on my plan to travel to Belgium, Germany. Switzerland and France on an interrail ticket in August. Can anyone help with correct info on this one (all countries are in the exemption list)?

 

[johnnychips]

Friend of mine said that you're only allowed to enter/exit one country. Is that true? If so puts the brakes on my plan to travel to Belgium, Germany. Switzerland and France on an interrail ticket in August. Can anyone help with correct info on this one (all countries are in the exemption list)?

As all these countries are in the Schengen area, surely that won’t be a problem? Having said that, countries can do border checks when they are within Schengen as I nearly found out to my cost when I tried to go from Spain to France on a day-trip via Cerbere three years ago without a passport. Schoolboy French and a perception from the French border guards that all English are idiots - probably true for me forgetting to bring it - got me through.
However, if they don’t stamp passports or don’t have an elaborate high-tech tracking system, I don’t see how they could enforce it anyway; or why it would make any sense in the first place?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

As all these countries are in the Schengen area, surely that won’t be a problem? Having said that, countries can do border checks when they are within Schengen as I nearly found out to my cost when I tried to go from Spain to France on a day-trip via Cerbere three years ago without a passport. Schoolboy French and a perception from the French border guards that all English are idiots - probably true for me forgetting to bring it - got me through.
However, if they don’t stamp passports or don’t have an elaborate high-tech tracking system, I don’t see how they could enforce it anyway; or why it would make any sense in the first place?

Indeed. They are wasting their time trying to prevent people from visiting more than one country across the Schengen zone now that checks have been abolished again.

I would be highly surprised if the restriction is anything other than having to have been within the countries constituting the Common Travel Area, plus the quarantine-free list of countries, for the 14 days before entering the UK.

 

[Chester1]

Friend of mine said that you're only allowed to enter/exit one country. Is that true? If so puts the brakes on my plan to travel to Belgium, Germany. Switzerland and France on an interrail ticket in August. Can anyone help with correct info on this one (all countries are in the exemption list)?

No its not true.

Travel to England from another country – COVID-19 rules

Check if there are any COVID-19 rules in place for travel to England from abroad.

www.gov.uk

 

[Richard Scott]

Thanks for that - sorts that one out.
Must admit on reading it it is unclear as states 'From 10 July 2020, unless they have visited or stopped in any other country or territory in the preceding 14 days, passengers arriving from the following countries and territories will not be required to self-isolate on arrival into England', which could be read as any country visited other than the one that you have arrived from?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Thanks for that - sorts that one out.
Must admit on reading it it is unclear as states 'From 10 July 2020, unless they have visited or stopped in any other country or territory in the preceding 14 days, passengers arriving from the following countries and territories will not be required to self-isolate on arrival into England', which could be read as any country visited other than the one that you have arrived from?

Unfortunately there is still no legislation to back up what they saying, but from the guidance () they say that it is about whether or not you

have not been to or stopped in a country that’s not on the travel corridors exemption list in the previous 14 days

So you can travel freely within any of the travel corridor exemption list of countries, and as long as you have been within those countries for the 14 days preceding your entry to England you do not need to quarantine. If you have been there for less than 14 days, you need to quarantine until you have been in one of the listed countries (including the UK) for 14 days in total.

 

[Richard Scott]

Unfortunately there is still no legislation to back up what they saying, but from the guidance () they say that it is about whether or not you


So you can travel freely within any of the travel corridor exemption list of countries, and as long as you have been within those countries for the 14 days preceding your entry to England you do not need to quarantine. If you have been there for less than 14 days, you need to quarantine until you have been in one of the listed countries (including the UK) for 14 days in total.

This is all getting a little silly? So if I leave UK travel and go to Belgium, then Germany and France for 10 days in total I would have to quarantine for 4 days upon arrival back in UK? That's how I understand it, despite not having left the area? Is that correct?

 

[Ianno87]

This is all getting a little silly? So if I leave UK travel and go to Belgium, then Germany and France for 10 days in total I would have to quarantine for 4 days upon arrival back in UK? That's how I understand it, despite not having left the area? Is that correct?

No. The UK is included within the list of countries you must not have left for 14 days.

 

[island]

Unfortunately there is still no legislation to back up what they saying, but from the guidance () they say that it is about whether or not you

Yes there is, it’s SI2020/691 which was published on Monday.

For once, it actually says much the same as the guidance and as such the last few posts are correct.

A 14 day counter starts running the day after you leave a non-exempt country or territory, and if you enter England before the counter has run out, you must self-isolate until it does so.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Yes there is, it’s SI2020/691 which was published on Monday.

For once, it actually says much the same as the guidance and as such the last few posts are correct.

A 14 day counter starts running the day after you leave a non-exempt country or territory, and if you enter England before the counter has run out, you must self-isolate until it does so.

Ah, my oversight. Annoyingly they've not modified the original SI so it's quite a task to work out the intended effect.

 

[island]

The other moderate annoyance is that a person arriving before 23:59hrs tomorrow must serve the full 14 days quarantine, i.e. the change does not terminate anyone’s quarantine.

 

[Butts]

The other moderate annoyance is that a person arriving before 23:59hrs tomorrow must serve the full 14 days quarantine, i.e. the change does not terminate anyone’s quarantine.

One time you may be hoping for a delayed flight ? - at least till the "witching hour"

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

One time you may be hoping for a delayed flight ? - at least till the "witching hour"

You'd just delay your entry to the border checks by going to the toilet for a while! I don't believe you legally enter the country until you pass that point.

 

[Belperpete]

Friend of mine said that you're only allowed to enter/exit one country. Is that true? If so puts the brakes on my plan to travel to Belgium, Germany. Switzerland and France on an interrail ticket in August. Can anyone help with correct info on this one (all countries are in the exemption list)?

As others have already pointed out, this is not true. However, just because the UK is not demanding quarantine, does not mean the same applies in reverse. Anyone visiting other countries, also needs to check the restrictions that those countries apply on arriving visitors. For example, there are many countries on our "green list" who are still demanding that UK visitors must quarantine on arrival there, or haven't even opened their borders at all. Things are likely to be fluid, with countries applying and removing restrictions depending on resurgences in infection rates, for quite some time.

For a multi-country trip, this could be quite involved. For example, you would need to check what Switzerland's requirement is for someone arriving from Germany, and possibly Belgium and the UK too, depending on how long you spend in each country.

 

[Mag_seven]

The latest "air bridges" list has been issued. Portugal remains on the list:

Coronavirus: Portugal still on quarantine list for holidaymakers

Travellers from Portugal will have to self-isolate but restrictions are relaxed for other nations.

www.bbc.co.uk

Portugal remains off the list of countries that the government has exempted from quarantine restrictions.

In changes that apply to England, travellers from Estonia, Latvia, Slovakia, Slovenia and St Vincent and the Grenadines won't have to isolate.

The list will be updated weekly which could cause problems if a country comes off the list while you are actually out there!

 

[brad465]

I don't think not having an air bridge with Portugal, but keeping one with Spain, makes sense, considering the latter is currently in a worse position. It should be they both have air bridges with us or neither of them do; to me the current arrangement does fully support either the health and/or economic arguments.

 

[duncanp]

I don't think not having an air bridge with Portugal, but keeping one with Spain, makes sense, considering the latter is currently in a worse position. It should be they both have air bridges with us or neither of them do; to me the current arrangement does fully support either the health and/or economic arguments.

And no-one is going to try and flout the rules by travelling to Spain, and then taking a separate flight to Portugal, are they?

 

[45107]

And no-one is going to try and flout the rules by travelling to Spain, and then taking a separate flight to Portugal, are they?

Except both countries have had a much stricter form of lockdown to deal with this and may just have reintroduced a form of border control.

Edit. I have just checked the entry requirements for both countries.
It would be possible to do as you suggest, but it looks like mandatory test on arrival in Portugal and self isolation until the result is known.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

I suppose this fits in here. The BBC are reporting (on their BBC1 news programme) that Spain is to be taken off of the UK's quarantine exemption list in the early hours of the morning. It's not made it online yet, so can't post a link.

Edit: story here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53540691

Travellers returning to England from Spain will have to quarantine for 14 days from Sunday, the BBC understands.

It is believed the measures will come into force in the early hours of Sunday.

The UK government is expected to announce the change imminently, due to a significant spike in coronavirus cases in Spain.

 

[brad465]

Spain just been taken off the Air bridges' group and now arrivals from there have to quarantine:

Coronavirus: UK brings back 14-day quarantine for Spain

The move means people returning from Spain will have to self-isolate, as part of coronavirus rules.

www.bbc.co.uk

Travellers returning to England from Spain will have to quarantine for 14 days from Sunday, the BBC understands.

It is believed the measures will come into force in the early hours of Sunday.

The UK government is expected to announce the change imminently, due to a significant spike in coronavirus cases in Spain.

This sort of fulfils my suggestion from my last post yesterday in Spain needing quarantine if Portugal still needs this, given Spain appears in a worse position now.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As I posted elsewhere, this is why travel abroad this year does not make sense. It'll be dynamic, ever-changing and completely uninsurable. Take a British holiday and support our local tourist industry (though maybe consider first places that weren't waving eff-off banners a few weeks ago).

My view remains to be honest that we shouldn't have air bridges and we should have quarantine, in a State facility, with testing, for anyone entering the country regardless of origin. It's easier to deal with the problem in isolation.

 

[AM9]

Well it looks like Spain, that most 'normal' of holiday destinations, is off the menu for a few weeks. Breaking news this evening is that visitors returning from there will be on 2 week quarantine from tomorrow morning because of an upturn in cases there
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/breaking-british-tourists-spain-quarantine-22415865

British tourists to Spain 'will have to quarantine for two weeks on return to UK'
UK tourists in Spain 'will have to get home by midnight tonight' if they want to avoid quarantine for two weeks amid a fresh outbreak, as the government confirms all travellers from England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland are affected

 

[cactustwirly]

My view remains to be honest that we shouldn't have air bridges and we should have quarantine, in a State facility, with testing, for anyone entering the country regardless of origin. It's easier to deal with the problem in isolation.

Which would basically kill off a lot of tourism and airlines, 10,000s jobs lost in the process...