Air bridges with European countries given "green light"

[Howardh]

According to the Ibiza Spotlight forum (with thanks to Stivi for the info)

here on the Balearics everyone feels it's a very unfair approach on things since our current epidemic situation is actually better than the UK‘s. the balearic government last night announced they are working on creating a safe flight corridor with the UK and we are hopeful this will soon be a done thing. so for anyone doubting regarding your bookings, don't hit the cancel button just yet and give it a few days, I'm fairly sure the situation will change again.

Local lockdowns I can understand, but to wipe a whole country out in one go is ridiculous. There are parts of Spain with virtually zero cases, why shoudl they suffer a lack of tourism?

Also, how does Gibraltar stand in all of this? is the border closed with Spain? Can we fly direct to Gibraltar and back quarantine-free?

 

[duncanp]

I think we should nationalise and close down most of the airline and airport industry, possibly with some level of extended furlough, with a view to restarting and possibly reprivatising when it's all over.

It'd cost a fraction of what nationalising the banks cost.

And what purpose would this serve, exactly?

What about the thousands of people who would lose their jobs as a result?

And what about the cost of nationalisation and extended furlough.

Money doesn't grow on trees, and the government isn't exactly rolling in spare cash at the moment.

 

[WestCoast]

According to the Ibiza Spotlight forum (with thanks to Stivi for the info)
Local lockdowns I can understand, but to wipe a whole country out in one go is ridiculous. There are parts of Spain with virtually zero cases, why shoudl they suffer a lack of tourism?

Also, how does Gibraltar stand in all of this? is the border closed with Spain? Can we fly direct to Gibraltar and back quarantine-free?

You can still travel to Ibiza without invalidating travel insurance, but have to self-isoloate on return. I can certainly understand the fustration of the adminstrations in the Balearic and Canary Islands which have very low rates of Covid, however I think our Government is concerned that a lot of the cases in places like Catalonia are being reported in the respected press as coming from younger (Spanish) people enjoying the reopened nightlife and then passing on to older generations. If we believe that much of our own UK cases were imported from Italy in February and March, then I am sure the Government is twitchy about any spike in cases in Spain.

Gibraltar seems to be on the air corridor list and I understand they are carrying out a lot of checks on their border so you could fly there directly from the UK. In fact, I could think of few better places right now.

 

[Skymonster]

The latest disgraceful demand that passengers from Spain quarantine for two weeks convinces me that the government doesn’t give a hoot about individual, hard-working, normal people and only cares about its own image.

Consider this:

• Many of the people coming back from Spain who will now have to quarantine did not just rashly book a trip immediately after the travel ban was listed. Many of them are on holidays that they booked long before Covid was a thing, and have travelled because their trips were not cancelled - and on that basis they cannot simply not go, and if they chose not to go travel insurance would not compensate them.
• The people now coming back from Spain will not be able to go to work for two weeks, and may not have leave available to take another two weeks off. If they are otherwise obliged to go into work because they do a job that cannot be done from home, they face two weeks without pay (or possibly in some cases being fired for non-attendance).
• The government and insurance companies will not pay anything, not even statutory sick pay, to anyone forced to quarantine who is unable to work and thus is not paid.

It disgusts me - yes, disgusts me - that this government is acting in such an irrational and callous way towards individuals who have done absolutely nothing wrong, and have merely elected to travel within the law.

 

[Skymonster]

I think we should nationalise and close down most of the airline and airport industry...

Yeah, and I think we should close down most of the rail industry because so few people are using it - the country would make huge savings in the staff were laid off and we only had to pay universal credit to those affected. And lets shut down Eurostar too, for the same reason.

Meanwhile, closing our borders and our airlines would merely move us into the same category as New Zealand - imprisoned on our island, unable to and afraid to come and go lest the virus attacks, waiting for a vaccine that might never come. International travel IS essential in many cases, especially to our economy. Anyone failing to accept that is delusional.

 

[duncanp]

It disgusts me - yes, disgusts me - that this government is acting in such an irrational and callous way towards individuals who have done absolutely nothing wrong, and have merely elected to travel within the law.

Couldn't agree with you more.

I am going to France in September, and if France goes from the green list to the red list whilst I am away I shall simply ignore the quarantine.

Or perhaps I could phone 111 and pretend to that I have got symptoms so that I could get a COVID-19 test.

I think there should be mass civil disobedience against these quarantine laws, in the manner of the Black Lives Matter protests, as the authorities simply don't have the resources to check up on everyone.

 

[Scrotnig]

I think it shows the folly of booking any foreign travel anywhere at the moment.

I would suggest it would be sensible not to book any foreign travel for at least the rest of this year, and if it were me I'd not consider it for a full year from now. Everything is just too unpredictable.

I won't even book UK holidays at the moment, never mind abroad.

Sorry for the holiday industry and all that, but it's just not worth the risk (of things being cancelled without compensation, not the risk of the virus specifically, though clearly that must also be taken into account).

 

[Scrotnig]

Or perhaps I could phone 111 and pretend to that I have got symptoms so that I could get a COVID-19 test.

Simply move to Leicester, Blackburn or Luton - in these areas you can request a test even without symptoms (indeed the government are urging people to do so).

Which is odd because the NHS website says the test is unreliable unless you have at least one of the three stated symptoms. I wonder how it magically becomes effective in those three areas?

 

[Bletchleyite]

And what purpose would this serve, exactly?

Allow us to pursue a New Zealand style elimination policy.

Simply move to Leicester, Blackburn or Luton - in these areas you can request a test even without symptoms (indeed the government are urging people to do so).

Or just claim you have symptoms. They are not checking.

I think there should be mass civil disobedience against these quarantine laws, in the manner of the Black Lives Matter protests, as the authorities simply don't have the resources to check up on everyone.

That really makes me quite angry. I hope they are enforced strictly and anyone doing this (other than "de minimis" stuff like going for a run at 4am and making effort to ensure you don't come within 2m of another person) is prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

Yeah, and I think we should calso lose down most of the rail industry because so few people are using it

No, we should encourage rail use - this could have been heavily promoted as the big summer of British holidays.

lets shut down Eurostar too, for the same reason.

Yes, that would be necessary.

Meanwhile, closing our borders and our airlines would merely move us into the same category as New Zealand - imprisoned on our island, unable to and afraid to come and go lest the virus attacks, waiting for a vaccine that might never come. International travel IS essential in many cases, especially to our economy. Anyone failing to accept that is delusional.

I disagree strongly.

 

[Chester1]

I think it shows the folly of booking any foreign travel anywhere at the moment.

I would suggest it would be sensible not to book any foreign travel for at least the rest of this year, and if it were me I'd not consider it for a full year from now. Everything is just too unpredictable.

I won't even book UK holidays at the moment, never mind abroad.

Sorry for the holiday industry and all that, but it's just not worth the risk (of things being cancelled without compensation, not the risk of the virus specifically, though clearly that must also be taken into account).

Alternatively book the time off work but don't book flights and accommodation until a few days beforehand and don't chose anywhere with rising cases.

 

[PR1Berske]

I think it shows the folly of booking any foreign travel anywhere at the moment.

I would suggest it would be sensible not to book any foreign travel for at least the rest of this year, and if it were me I'd not consider it for a full year from now. Everything is just too unpredictable.

I won't even book UK holidays at the moment, never mind abroad.

Sorry for the holiday industry and all that, but it's just not worth the risk (of things being cancelled without compensation, not the risk of the virus specifically, though clearly that must also be taken into account).

A sensible post.

Honestly, the risk is too high. Spain has rising cases, and it doesn't matter which part when the government has to act on the science.

2020 is not the year to go abroad.

 

[PR1Berske]

Alternatively book the time off work but don't book flights and accommodation until a few days beforehand and don't chose anywhere with rising cases.

Can ordinary workers afford to do that?

 

[Bletchleyite]

A sensible post.

Honestly, the risk is too high. Spain has rising cases, and it doesn't matter which part when the government has to act on the science.

2020 is not the year to go abroad.

Yes, this. Or at least if you're going to go for a short period at the last minute to the country with the lowest caseload.

Can ordinary workers afford to do that?

Airlines will be selling seats at low prices this year even last minute as they won't sell them otherwise. But if they can't, then they can't afford an international holiday this year. It is really not essential. Take a British holiday just for once, or even take a staycation and explore attractions near you - I bet most people don't know half of what's worth seeing in their local area.

 

[Skymonster]

I think it shows the folly of booking any foreign travel anywhere at the moment.

The people who are really affected the most are those who booked before Covid, have not been able to cancel because their holidays are going ahead, have travelled in all innocence and now potentially face financial hardship because of government ineptitude. All these ill-thought out knee jerk restrictions achieve is pushing people to ignore the quarantine - I know that’s exactly what I would do if I was faced with a quarantine introduced while I was away. And yes, I will be travelling abroad later in the year.

 

[DB]

Allow us to pursue a New Zealand style elimination policy.

You keep going on about New Zealand, but hardly anyone seems to think that their strategy is going to work long-term as they can't keep it up indefinitely.

NZ is also a country with a small population, with only one city of any size (and that is smaller than at least five UK conurbations), and miles away from any neighbours. It's not comparable to the UK at all.

 

[PR1Berske]

No, I’d encourage people to travel if the rules allow it and just ignore the quarantine if one pops up while they are away - the chances of being caught out will be minimal.

Is that responsible behaviour given the risk of spreading a deadly respiratory disease for which there is no vaccine?

 

[DB]

when the government has to act on the science.

But that's not what they are doing!

They are trying to eliminate a virus with significant woldwide spread by suppression. That has never been achieved with any virus and there is no science-based reason to think it will work.

 

[Skymonster]

Is that responsible behaviour given the risk of spreading a deadly respiratory disease for which there is no vaccine?

I would have no qualms - it is a virus that has no effect on the vast majority of the population and carries minimal risk for most of the rest. Make no mistake: the ONLY reason these illogical quarantines are being brought in is because a failing government is desperate to be seen to be doing something - anything - that the coronamoaners will see as positive.

 

[Mogster]

A sensible post.

Honestly, the risk is too high. Spain has rising cases, and it doesn't matter which part when the government has to act on the science.

2020 is not the year to go abroad.

It’s not just cases, Spain and Portugal have concerning climbing excess death stats also.

 

[Chester1]

Can ordinary workers afford to do that?

Yes, there are some incredible low prices at short notice both for flights and accommodation. Its still relatively expensive to go away in August but cheaper advanced booking last year. I booked flights to Italy (Alitalia) and 7 days in a 4* hotel for a total of £600 at short notice in mid July. If you want to go on holiday in September after kids return to school then you will be able to find good deals a week or so beforehand, if you are are flexible.

 

[duncanp]

If there really was a risk from people returning from abroad, then we would do quarantine properly, by sending people to approved facilities, with people being prevented from leaving until their quarantine was over.

Just like we did with the travellers from China who were sent to that hospital on The Wirral.

But this being the UK, we can't afford to do that, so we have to have this pretend quarantine instead, just to make it look as if the government is doing something.

 

[DB]

I have no qualms - it is a virus that has no effect on the vast majority of the population and carries minimal risk for most of the rest. Make no mistake: the ONLY reason these illogical quarantines are being brought in is because a failing government is desperate to be seen to be doing something - anything - that the coronamoaners will see as positive.

And this isn't the only country where this is happening!

Around the world, governments have backed themselves into corners by exaggerating the risk to the general population and pushing it for months on end. They are now reduced to tokenistic gestures to show that they are 'doing something', and seem to have no idea how to get out of the situation they have created - the virus won't go away, a vaccine could be years off, and even when and if one appears it'll take years, probably decades, of determined effort to wipe out the virus. They won't admit they were wrong either, of course. I really don't know where it goes from here, but if things carry on like this into the winter there is very likely to be civil unrest.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Just as I said earlier.

If there really was a risk from people returning from abroad, then we would do quarantine properly, by sending people to approved facilities, with people being prevented from leaving until their quarantine was over.

If people don't comply with it, we're going to end up having to do that. You've been warned.

First, people were asked to socially distance, then they didn't so it became the law.
Then, people were asked to wear masks, then they didn't so it became the law.
This will, and should, be next. Just do what you are being asked to do for the good of everyone. It is not about you. The selfishness being expressed on this Forum is making me quite angry.

if things carry on like this into the winter there is very likely to be civil unrest.

People have said this all along and it's not happened. The overall public support is actually for stricter, not less strict, measures.

 

[WestCoast]

I have a lot of sympathy for those who booked before Covid hit and are not being given the opportunity to postpone or get their money back. I'm still waiting on a refund for a flight that was cancelled in April despite contiuing to persue the company and my card issuer.

I think it needs to be clearer that these air corridors are being reviewed every three weeks and countries will be removed/added each time. I know it was stated at the time by the Government but I suspect many people who booked this month gave that not strong enough consideration. I think the airlines and holiday companies need to publicise this very clearly too that restrictions can and will change at short notice, I haven't seen any such warnings in any of the marketing they have sent me!

 

[Darandio]

Then, people were asked to wear masks, then they didn't so it became the law.

When? Nobody asked me to wear a mask until a couple of weeks ago when they told me it would be compulsory from the 24th.

 

[DB]

People have said this all along and it's not happened. The overall public support is actually for stricter, not less strict, measures.

The 'overall public' is getting more and more divided. This situation seems to appeal to an authoritarian streak in a small number of very vocal people (of which you are one) who seem to want the government to dictate every aspect of their lives.

If the support for masks was actually as high as has been claimed, there would have been a majority of people wearing them before Friday. That there wasn't, and mask use (round here at least) had ben dropping for weeks, says it all really.

 

[island]

What I want to know is what COVID figures from Spain prompted this decision. With the quarantine free list of countries being reviewed weekly (last review was yesterday) something must have happened today to force the decision. There was an epidemiologist from Spain on the BBC tonight claiming that while there have been some hotspots these are limited to certain locations and the bulk of the country is not riskier in terms of infection rates than the UK itself.

Bold of you to assume the decision was based on figures

The airplane is almost certainly not going to be the place you pick the virus up. Notwithstanding the fact that masks are pretty much a requirement to fly at the moment, but the air inside an aircraft is constantly filtered through HEPA filters and is mixed with fresh air from the outside. This means in effect that the air is completely replaced inside the cabin on average every 2 yo 3 minutes.

The masks that are worn by the general public do not have a material effect at preventing you getting the virus.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The 'overall public' is getting more and more divided. This situation seems to appeal to an authoritarian streak in a small number of very vocal people (of which you are one) who seem to want the government to dictate every aspect of their lives.

No, I don't support that and I never will.

What I want the Government to "dictate" (I prefer legislate, as it doesn't carry the perjorative meaning your term does), which they are doing, is laws that reduce the risk posed to me and to our national infrastructure by other people. Masks are a brilliant example of this. Quarantine is another. So is social distancing generally.

None of the UK laws are about protection of the individual from themselves, and nor should they be. Shielding, for example, has always been wholly optional and not mandated in law, and this is correct.

 

[Howardh]

I think the simplest answer is for anyone returning from Spain or other hot-spot either goes into quarantine or has a free covid-tests at their local centre, and can return to work etc on receiving a negative result, which could be all down within 48-72 hours of landing. Even better if these tests could be done at the airport on arrival, after all we queue for immigration, queue for baggage, what's another wait when faced with 14 days indoors?

 

[DB]

No, I don't support that and I never will.

What I want the Government to "dictate" (I prefer legislate, as it doesn't carry the perjorative meaning your term does), which they are doing, is laws that reduce the risk posed to me and to our national infrastructure by other people. Masks are a brilliant example of this. Quarantine is another. So is social distancing generally.

None of the UK laws are about protection of the individual from themselves, and nor should they be. Shielding, for example, has always been wholly optional and not mandated in law, and this is correct.

I must admit that I am finding it increasingly difficult to tell whether you really believe this stuff or are simply trolling. Masks are 'brilliant', are they? Despite an almost complete lack of evidence, and Oxford epidemiologists not being convinced?