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Airedale line regulation question (08/11)

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ohgoditsjames

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18.42 Leeds to Bradford Forster square is delayed by 27 minutes however the 18.56 Leeds to Skipton service is able to leave on time.

Surely in this case the 18.56 Leeds to Skipton train that’s ready to leave and doesn’t make any stops until Shipley should leave first because the train that’s 27 minutes late has to stop at Kirkstall Forge and Apperley Bridge and thus makes the Skipton train wait at Leeds and delay a service that wouldn’t be delayed?

The Skipton train has now been needlessly delayed by at least 15 minutes if not more!

Edit: I’m now lead to believe there’s an issue at Cononley however my question now is let’s say there wasn’t an issue would the on time service be given the signal to leave first?
 
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xotGD

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Several times I have been sat on a train at Leeds that has been delayed and the next train has left first, with me sat there watching it leave!
 

northernchris

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There's some instances where there appears to be no logic used, which would suggest automation is being used. A few weeks ago I was travelling from Keighley to Leeds, the 2017 ex Skipton was running late but the 2029 (ex Carlisle) was on time. The 2017 departed Skipton at 2027, given this calls at all stations to Leeds it would have made sense to allow the 2029 out first rather than have 2 trains run late.

Leeds really does struggle to cope with the flow of trains in to and out of platforms 1-5, seemingly caused by poor track layout which is being addressed as part of the platform 0 enhancements. It's common for trains to be in a queue to arrive and depart the lower platforms, my current record is almost 25 minutes from Armley Junction to arrival
 

ohgoditsjames

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There's some instances where there appears to be no logic used, which would suggest automation is being used. A few weeks ago I was travelling from Keighley to Leeds, the 2017 ex Skipton was running late but the 2029 (ex Carlisle) was on time. The 2017 departed Skipton at 2027, given this calls at all stations to Leeds it would have made sense to allow the 2029 out first rather than have 2 trains run late.

Leeds really does struggle to cope with the flow of trains in to and out of platforms 1-5, seemingly caused by poor track layout which is being addressed as part of the platform 0 enhancements. It's common for trains to be in a queue to arrive and depart the lower platforms, my current record is almost 25 minutes from Armley Junction to arrival

Baffling! I’m not defending Northern but with things like this you sometimes have to feel sorry for them
 

Spartacus

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There's some instances where there appears to be no logic used, which would suggest automation is being used. A few weeks ago I was travelling from Keighley to Leeds, the 2017 ex Skipton was running late but the 2029 (ex Carlisle) was on time. The 2017 departed Skipton at 2027, given this calls at all stations to Leeds it would have made sense to allow the 2029 out first rather than have 2 trains run late.

That may well have been due to the difficulty in getting the ex-Carlisle service around the delayed 2017 without delaying something coming into Skipton from the South. Around that time platform 4 should have been occupied by a unit and platform 3 would have the 1949 Leeds - Ribblehead arriving in it. There's not an enormous amount of time difference between a 333 all stations to Leeds and a Sprinter on a semi-fast, less difference than the delay that would probably have been caused around Skipton trying to shuffle them, which would almost certainly have delayed the Carlisle and the train to Bradford in platform 4, as well as putting extra time into the 2017.
 

philthetube

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There's some instances where there appears to be no logic used, which would suggest automation is being used. A few weeks ago I was travelling from Keighley to Leeds, the 2017 ex Skipton was running late but the 2029 (ex Carlisle) was on time. The 2017 departed Skipton at 2027, given this calls at all stations to Leeds it would have made sense to allow the 2029 out first rather than have 2 trains run late.

Had this been in the peak I would have defended this on the grounds that a 2? car sprinter would cause delay to a 4 car because of delays loading.
 

Gems

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18.42 Leeds to Bradford Forster square is delayed by 27 minutes however the 18.56 Leeds to Skipton service is able to leave on time.

Surely in this case the 18.56 Leeds to Skipton train that’s ready to leave and doesn’t make any stops until Shipley should leave first because the train that’s 27 minutes late has to stop at Kirkstall Forge and Apperley Bridge and thus makes the Skipton train wait at Leeds and delay a service that wouldn’t be delayed?

The Skipton train has now been needlessly delayed by at least 15 minutes if not more!

Edit: I’m now lead to believe there’s an issue at Cononley however my question now is let’s say there wasn’t an issue would the on time service be given the signal to leave first?
I'm totally confused here.

The 1842 is 27 late. That means it leaves at 1909.
The 1856 left on time. If it did, it would be beyond Shipley and somewhere around Saltaire by then. So why would it interfere?

Was something else going on here that we don't know about?
 

JN114

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Was something else going on here that we don't know about?

In all likelihood, yes. Very difficult to assess merits and dismerits of regulation from an armchair or similar.
 

ohgoditsjames

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I'm totally confused here.

The 1842 is 27 late. That means it leaves at 1909.
The 1856 left on time. If it did, it would be beyond Shipley and somewhere around Saltaire by then. So why would it interfere?

Was something else going on here that we don't know about?

The 18.56 didn't leave on time and initially I thought it was because of the 18.42 delay but turns out there was an issue at Cononley.
 

Gems

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The 18.56 didn't leave on time and initially I thought it was because of the 18.42 delay but turns out there was an issue at Cononley.
Ah, okay, I see.

Then in that case the delay at Cononley would have been assessed and a decision made. If the problem was likely to be solved by the time it got there, it would be allowed to leave. If not, it should never leave Leeds.
But again, a lot of these decisions are made on the hoof taking into account train working patterns and crew working patterns.
You have a great service on the Airedale line, but lots of trains mean lots of delays when something happens.
 

Gems

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Just out of interest. Wasn't it a new 331 that failed at Cononley that day?
 

ohgoditsjames

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Ah, okay, I see.

Then in that case the delay at Cononley would have been assessed and a decision made. If the problem was likely to be solved by the time it got there, it would be allowed to leave. If not, it should never leave Leeds.
But again, a lot of these decisions are made on the hoof taking into account train working patterns and crew working patterns.
You have a great service on the Airedale line, but lots of trains mean lots of delays when something happens.

I'm not criticizing the Airedale line, I've only lived on the line for a year and I love it, it's worlds apart from where I'm from (Sheffield). Plenty of trains to Leeds (I can get to Leeds city centre in 11 minutes from Shipley station!), Bradford, Ilkley, Skipton per hour, nice trains and all of them are electric besides the Carlisle/Lancaster train.
 
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