Alcohol Bans

[Bletchleyite]

I was not aware of such a ban! Bit worrying , as I've often had a beer on the platform waiting for a train. I seem to recall signs at a couple of stations (Chichester?) saying that there was no drinking at the station due to a local bylaw , but never signs saying it's banned at all stations. Does anyone know the bylaw that supports this general ban?

I've never heard of this either, though I also can't say I've ever consumed alcohol on a station other than in licensed premises.

 

[185143]

I was not aware of such a ban! Bit worrying , as I've often had a beer on the platform waiting for a train. I seem to recall signs at a couple of stations (Chichester?) saying that there was no drinking at the station due to a local bylaw , but never signs saying it's banned at all stations. Does anyone know the bylaw that supports this general ban?

I got told off at Scarborough for having a beer in the turnaround of a 68 back in Summer. I'd have gone to 'Spoons but the queue was ridiculous. Was told you can't drink on the station (or indeed anywhere in public in Scarborough) but it was fine on the train. Fortunately the security guy had no issue with me leaving the can and supping it on the train.

 

[sprinterguy]

I was not aware of such a ban! Bit worrying , as I've often had a beer on the platform waiting for a train.

Indeed, I've never heard of this either and have certainly never been challenged on the occasions I've had a beer in hand while waiting for a train.

 

[williamn]

I really fail to understand the need for or logic of the LNER ban.

The vast majority of passengers enjoy a drink or two with zero issues, and i don't understand whats suddenly changed.

GlitterUnicorn for Minister of Transport.

Although alcohol itself isn't the problem - it's the inability of what sadly seems like c.95% of the population to consume even the slightest amount without immediately/subsequently acting like a complete arse in public.

I really don't think that's true. PreCovid many many commuters would grab a drink for their train home, with zero incident, long distance operators served wine in First class with no issue. Sometimes you do get drunk louts, yes, but they're far from the majority.

 

[Steam Man]

I really fail to understand the need for or logic of the LNER ban.

The vast majority of passengers enjoy a drink or two with zero issues, and i don't understand whats suddenly changed.


I really don't think that's true. PreCovid many many commuters would grab a drink for their train home, with zero incident, long distance operators served wine in First class with no issue. Sometimes you do get drunk louts, yes, but they're far from the majority.

We had our 50th gala last year we ran a train overnight which I worked we had a bar at Buckfastleigh some passengers got on the train very drunk but they just found a seat and went to sleep and I had no trouble with them I find the best way is that if they’re not causing any trouble leave them to it just check on them every now and again make sure they’re ok.

 

[greyman42]

I think in March of this year when everything was affected by cv.

The ban was lifted after the lockdown but has now been reinstated. The no alcohol notice at York is back in the main entrance to the station.

I wasn't even aware LNER had any sort of ban before March apart from on selected services.

They didn't.

 

[dk1]

Norwich Station has very recently been included in the extended city centre alcohol ban too. Again as said by others it doesn't affect me. Much as I love a beer I've never understood drinking it on the street.

 

[broadgage]

I can see the merit of prohibiting alcohol consumption on specific train services where there is a history of alcohol related problems.
I cant support any general ban affecting large numbers of trains.
The health and puritan lobby regard drinking as the new smoking, and consider bans and restrictions to be desirable regardless of any specific need.

The dangers of drinking and driving are well known, and one of the merits of train travel should be the ability to enjoy a drink.

 

[sheff1]

I really fail to understand the need for or logic of the LNER ban.

The vast majority of passengers enjoy a drink or two with zero issues, and i don't understand whats suddenly changed.

The temperance/prohibition lobby have used covid-19 as an opportunity to ban alcohol in many places without any convincing supporting evidence. Take the 10:00pm curfew, no alcohol in restaurants, closure of 'wet only' pubs etc.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The temperance/prohibition lobby have used covid-19 as an opportunity to ban alcohol in many places without any convincing supporting evidence. Take the 10:00pm curfew, no alcohol in restaurants, closure of 'wet only' pubs etc.

One does wonder to what extent it will be reinstated afterwards. Easier to keep something than bring it in. After all the 11pm "time" in pubs dated from World War 2 and wasn't removed until 2007.

 

[38Cto15E]

Am I correct in that LNER have an alcohol ban, whilst Avanti West Coast do not have a ban, but have a 'not serving any alcohol' policy?

 

[dk1]

Am I correct in that LNER have an alcohol ban, whilst Avanti West Coast do not have a ban, but have a 'not serving any alcohol' policy?

That's how I understand it.

 

[Mag_seven]

Once again I feel that these bans just miss the point - most if not all of the trouble starts from people who are already drunk when they board the train.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Once again I feel that these bans just miss the point - most if not all of the trouble starts from people who are already drunk when they board the train.

Merseyrail are known to tell people to go away, have a coffee and come back later, particularly during the Grand National, FWIW.

But yes, I'd agree, most people causing a nuisance on trains didn't consume the alcohol that led to that nuisance on board.

What this requires really is much stricter application of the "drunk and disorderly" laws that already exist.

 

[yorksrob]

The temperance/prohibition lobby have used covid-19 as an opportunity to ban alcohol in many places without any convincing supporting evidence. Take the 10:00pm curfew, no alcohol in restaurants, closure of 'wet only' pubs etc.

Yes, the puritan lobby certainly need to be brought to heel.

 

[dk1]

Merseyrail are known to tell people to go away, have a coffee and come back later, particularly during the Grand National, FWIW.

Oh yes that's quite annoying. After the National we usually go to the Railway Tavern Ormskirk for a few & the disco before getting the train back to Preston & Blackpool. Got takeaway pints for the Northern Train but forgot it was a Merseyrail station. Even flashing my railstaff pass didn't cut any ice with the station security guard.

 

[Trackman]

Am I correct in that LNER have an alcohol ban, whilst Avanti West Coast do not have a ban, but have a 'not serving any alcohol' policy?

Avanti say this is down to government policy, not Avanti‘s policy.
Likewise before lockdown 2.0 they didn’t serve alcohol north of Carlisle.

 

[bradleyd]

No alcohol is permitted north of Pontypridd to Treherbert/Merthyr Tydfil/Aberdare and from Caerphilly to Bargoed/Rhymney on the TfW Valley Lines

The 20:21 GWR Weymouth to Bristol has historically been an alcohol free train on Saturdays for some time.

Do you have any idea of why it is only north of pontypridd/Caerphilly, and not the whole length? I moved to pontypridd towards the end of last year, and was commuting to Bristol daily until January, and on my way home would always have a couple bottles of beer, and be confused by why everybody could drink as far as ponty, but not any further

 

[setdown]

Any action whatsoever on antisocial behaviour would be a good thing. On a lot of rowdy late night trains the guard stays locked in the cab and passengers are left to fend for themselves.

Bouncers on trains? I've heard of worse ideas...

This used to be a thing on the late-night London Midland trains from Liverpool, but the RMT entered dispute over having the bouncers onboard: https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/london-midland-train-conductors-secure-major-victory2/

 

[Jozhua]

Once again I feel that these bans just miss the point - most if not all of the trouble starts from people who are already drunk when they board the train.

This exactly ^^^

Plus, what stops people doing the American tradition of putting it in a brown paper bag, or yano just putting some vodka in their coke bottle?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Oh yes that's quite annoying. After the National we usually go to the Railway Tavern Ormskirk for a few & the disco before getting the train back to Preston & Blackpool. Got takeaway pints for the Northern Train but forgot it was a Merseyrail station. Even flashing my railstaff pass didn't cut any ice with the station security guard.

I wouldn't personally admit to being staff when in an altercation with another member of staff, particularly where that member of staff is in the right (Merseyrail's Byelaw bans open containers on their stations, and you can't get to the Preston train without passing through one - presumably if you'd picked up bottles and kept them in a bag you'd have been fine as closed containers are allowed, unless they bring in a "dry train" rule during the National which bans any alcohol even if you've just bought a bottle of plonk from Tesco with your shopping to take home). That's a good way for it to turn from an annoyance to a disciplinary.

This used to be a thing on the late-night London Midland trains from Liverpool, but the RMT entered dispute over having the bouncers onboard: https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/london-midland-train-conductors-secure-major-victory2/

The RMT makes me laugh sometimes.

RMT: "Our guards aren't safe due to antisocial behaviour"
TOC: "OK, we will provide security guards to keep you safe"
RMT: "No, that's not acceptable"

What do they want?

 

[dk1]

I wouldn't personally admit to being staff when in an altercation with another member of staff, particularly where that member of staff is in the right (Merseyrail's Byelaw bans open containers on their stations, and you can't get to the Preston train without passing through one - presumably if you'd picked up bottles and kept them in a bag you'd have been fine as closed containers are allowed, unless they bring in a "dry train" rule during the National which bans any alcohol even if you've just bought a bottle of plonk from Tesco with your shopping to take home). That's a good way for it to turn from an annoyance to a disciplinary.



The RMT makes me laugh sometimes.

RMT: "Our guards aren't safe due to antisocial behaviour"
TOC: "OK, we will provide security guards to keep you safe"
RMT: "No, that's not acceptable"

What do they want?

Who said anything about an altercation? Was all good humoured. Downed as much as we could & poured the rest down the drain.

 

[yorksrob]

The Mersey region has a very peculiar attitude to alcohol. In a lot of non- league football clubs its possible to have a beer while watching the game, but similar level clubs in the Mersey area eschew this practice. I put it down to being a throwback from the 1980's.

 

[greyman42]

The RMT makes me laugh sometimes.

RMT: "Our guards aren't safe due to antisocial behaviour"
TOC: "OK, we will provide security guards to keep you safe"
RMT: "No, that's not acceptable"

What do they want?

An argument.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Mersey region has a very peculiar attitude to alcohol. In a lot of non- league football clubs its possible to have a beer while watching the game, but similar level clubs in the Mersey area eschew this practice. I put it down to being a throwback from the 1980's.

To be fair there isn't really any reason to need to be drinking alcohol on a metro system, the journeys are very short.

 

[yorksrob]

To be fair there isn't really any reason to need to be drinking alcohol on a metro system, the journeys are very short.

I don't know. Southport to Leasowe. One could become quite parched !

On a more serious note, I feel that Liverpool has embraced public sobriety with the zeal of a convert.

 

[island]

I believe alcohol is banned on all the station's throughout the UK as a byelaw. One of the funniest things is you can drink on almost all trains, but not the platform until you board.

I do not believe this to be the case. Byelaw 4 does prohibit entering or remaining on the railway (including stations) whilst unfit to do so due to being in a state of intoxication, but that is all.

I remember ScotRail had a rule prohibiting carrying any alcohol visibly on trains and at stations between (I think) 2100-1000 hours. It was permitted if out of sight in an opaque bag. This has since been superseded.

More generally, it might be argued that the current face covering requirements on trains in England and Wales de facto prohibit the consumption of alcohol. They permit removal of face coverings to drink where it is "reasonably necessary" to do so, and it will probably not be reasonably necessary to drink an alcoholic beverage. The Scottish regulations do not require your drinking to be reasonable but it'll have to be non-alcoholic.

 

[43066]

To be fair there isn't really any reason to need to be drinking alcohol on a metro system, the journeys are very short.

Many patrons of London Underground would disagree with you, of a Saturday night!

 

[Iskra]

While they aren't universally popular, Merseyrail seems to have met with some success with this idea.

TP have been using them on a few of their rowdier services for a number of years. Late night Manchester-Barrow was one, and their presence was well-justified.

On the whole however, I must say I find the banning of alcohol totally disproportionate. Being able to have a few beers is one of the advantages of rail travel. Especially when my car is often cheaper, more comfortable, quicker and more reliable. TOC's are shooting themselves in the foot.

While they definitely happen, the % of alcohol related incidents must be very low compared to the number of services run, and why not actually come down hard on those who cause trouble rather then punish the majority- patchy and lazy enforcement by the authorities is probably why people think they can get away with it in the first place. It's time the existing rules were enforced, before adding more.

 

[Watershed]

I do not believe this to be the case. Byelaw 4 does prohibit entering or remaining on the railway (including stations) whilst unfit to do so due to being in a state of intoxication, but that is all.

I remember ScotRail had a rule prohibiting carrying any alcohol visibly on trains and at stations between (I think) 2100-1000 hours. It was permitted if out of sight in an opaque bag. This has since been superseded.

More generally, it might be argued that the current face covering requirements on trains in England and Wales de facto prohibit the consumption of alcohol. They permit removal of face coverings to drink where it is "reasonably necessary" to do so, and it will probably not be reasonably necessary to drink an alcoholic beverage. The Scottish regulations do not require your drinking to be reasonable but it'll have to be non-alcoholic.

I am aware of at least one TOC where alcohol is still being sold onboard trains (clearly with the expectation that it will be consumed during the journey). Such sale of alcohol is in fact advertised as part of regular catering announcements! So, like with many Covid Regulations, theory and practice are far from aligned.