"All aboard our new line to Windermere" - Northern

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Greybeard33

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I received a promotional email with the above title today from [email protected]. Some extracts (my bolding):
We’ve opened a shiny new line that’ll take you to wonderful Windermere
The best way to see The Lakes is on foot, on a bike or on water, so leave the car at home and jump aboard our brand new service that'll take you to the very heart of the English Lake District. Windermere is one of the most charming, historic and scenic towns in Lakeland, and with our new line taking you straight there it's yours to explore. Book in advance and you could save up to 60% off the price - that's more for Cumbrian cake!
The description of a line that opened in 1845 as "shiny new" would seem to take PR-speak poetic licence to new heights of absurdity!
 
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DarloRich

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Obviously route or service would be a better choice of words than line but it is a PR puff piece - don't let it worry you.
 
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Baxenden Bank

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I received a promotional email with the above title today from [email protected]. Some extracts (my bolding):


The description of a line that opened in 1845 as "shiny new" would seem to take PR-speak poetic licence to new heights of absurdity!

It isn't recently opened, it's not new, it's not shiny and Windermere is somewhat less than wonderful for probably 10 months of the year nowadays.

The brand new service takes it back to the 1980's when the branch operated in isolation of the rest of the network.

And what is the quality of vehicles offered for this shiny.... etc
 
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DynamicSpirit

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I received a promotional email with the above title today from [email protected]. Some extracts (my bolding):


The description of a line that opened in 1845 as "shiny new" would seem to take PR-speak poetic licence to new heights of absurdity!

If the email does say what you've quoted, then that appears to be very clearly misleading - to the point that it'd be hard not to describe it as dishonest. I'd almost wonder whether it's the kind of thing that would fall under the remit of the Advertising Standards Authority (though publicising the issue on Twitter could be simpler)
 

Greybeard33

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Even reading "line" as meaning "service", the only changes Northern has introduced since it took over from TPE in April 2016 are:
  • Reduction in direct services to/from Manchester Airport (May 2016)
  • Substitution of 156s (standard class only) for 185s on some services (July 2016)
Hardly anything to boast about, and not even "new", now several months have elapsed!
 

johnnychips

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Stop nitpicking! The line will be shiny as long as enough trains a day run on it to stop the incessant Lakeland rain rusting it! :D
 

Howardh

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I think it's a simple spilling errer. Replace the "N" with "T" which is what they meant.
 

Kendalian

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I received a promotional email with the above title today from [email protected]. Some extracts (my bolding):


The description of a line that opened in 1845 as "shiny new" would seem to take PR-speak poetic licence to new heights of absurdity!

Yesterday strangely enough was the 170th anniversary of the line opening between Oxenholme and Kendal.

Kendal to Windermere opened on 20th April 1847.
 

QueensCurve

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I received a promotional email with the above title today from [email protected]. Some extracts (my bolding):

The description of a line that opened in 1845 as "shiny new" would seem to take PR-speak poetic licence to new heights of absurdity!

Very misleading given it has fewer through services beyond Oxenholme and the promis of bringing back the old, slower, trains.

Very sad.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Probably won't happen

Sadly at this stage I fear that may be true.

Any justification for electrification presumably assumes a fair few services being extended beyond Oxenholme. The current trend seems to be in the opposite direction.

Also, and at risk of upsetting BeLeavers - who think that Brexit will mean loads more money to spend on everything - I suspect a lot of electrification is likely to be shelved. Perhaps the Autumn Financial Statement will be a vehicle for this.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I don't think the 5 over Burneside Lower AOCL crossing will "go" anytime soon.

No, but is there any chance of upgrading the speed on Oxenholme station from 10mph to closer to the the turnout speed of the shiny new Switches and Crossings?
 

Clip

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Have arriva Northern ever gone to Windermere? If the answer is no then yes they have got a shiny new line to Windermere.

If you answer yes then you are telling porkys.
 

QueensCurve

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Have arriva Northern ever gone to Windermere? If the answer is no then yes they have got a shiny new line to Windermere.

If you answer yes then you are telling porkys.

The concerns some of us have include:-


  • Fewer through services beyond Oxenholme
  • Older and slower rolling stock
  • Doubts over electrification (still only at GRIP 2)
 

Kendalian

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Have arriva Northern ever gone to Windermere? If the answer is no then yes they have got a shiny new line to Windermere.

If you answer yes then you are telling porkys.

The old ATN expressed an interest in running through to Windermere (presumably extension of the Leeds-Lancaster service) in the days when FNW operated the line.

It couldn't be accommodated without a reduction in the roughly hourly FNW service due to single track.

That's been the line's achillies heel; the lack of a loop and ideally a second platform at Windermere. There's plenty of space at Windermere to accommodate a second platform.

Sure I've read somewhere the electrification plans include passive provision for a dynamic loop, but nothing has been confirmed as far as I know.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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The old ATN expressed an interest in running through to Windermere (presumably extension of the Leeds-Lancaster service) in the days when FNW operated the line.It couldn't be accommodated without a reduction in the roughly hourly FNW service due to single track.

That's been the line's achillies heel; the lack of a loop and ideally a second platform at Windermere. There's plenty of space at Windermere to accommodate a second platform.

Both Windermere and Glossop are terminal single platform railway stations that share the distinction of once being larger stations with more platforms than at present and also having temples to the retail god "Mammon" erected on the station site.

(Feel free to use this as an entry on the Station Association quiz should the opportunity so arise)
 

edwin_m

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The old ATN expressed an interest in running through to Windermere (presumably extension of the Leeds-Lancaster service) in the days when FNW operated the line.

It couldn't be accommodated without a reduction in the roughly hourly FNW service due to single track.

That's been the line's achillies heel; the lack of a loop and ideally a second platform at Windermere. There's plenty of space at Windermere to accommodate a second platform.

Sure I've read somewhere the electrification plans include passive provision for a dynamic loop, but nothing has been confirmed as far as I know.

A loop part way along would be better, otherwise one train would be trapped at Windermere for at least as long as it took the other one to run the length of the branch, unless the line was equipped with enough signals for two trains to run close together in the same direction. Given your name, can you update my hazy recollection that the bed of the second track at Kendal is still free?
 

AndrewE

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Looks like it on the satellite view on Google maps. Fits in with my memory too.
 

tbtc

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Have arriva Northern ever gone to Windermere? If the answer is no then yes they have got a shiny new line to Windermere.

If you answer yes then you are telling porkys.

As usual; nail, head.

It's a new line to them. Not brand new but new to them.

Good luck to Arriva if they are promoting services on a very "touristy" line over the winter months - surely it's a good thing that they are making the most of the hand that the franchise map has dealt them?

Not Arriva's decision to split Windermere off the TPE franchise.

Not Arriva's fault that they aren't going to use 185s permanently on the line, (given that they were explicitly banned from including 185s in their franchise bid!).

I can't see how anyone can blame Arriva re the level crossing at Burneside/ the lack of additional platforms at Windermere/ the electrification situation.

They are trying to encourage people to use a "touristy" line at the quieter time of year (winter is coming...) - cue lots of people on here moaning at a TOC promoting a service which is new to them!
 

Clip

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The concerns some of us have include:-


  • Fewer through services beyond Oxenholme
  • Older and slower rolling stock
  • Doubts over electrification (still only at GRIP 2)


The old ATN expressed an interest in running through to Windermere (presumably extension of the Leeds-Lancaster service) in the days when FNW operated the line.

It couldn't be accommodated without a reduction in the roughly hourly FNW service due to single track.

That's been the line's achillies heel; the lack of a loop and ideally a second platform at Windermere. There's plenty of space at Windermere to accommodate a second platform.

Sure I've read somewhere the electrification plans include passive provision for a dynamic loop, but nothing has been confirmed as far as I know.


So which answer to my question were you answering?

We all know the issues but thats because we are rail enthusiasts but the general travelling public are not so by not answetring my questions just shows im right.

Its PR. Deal with it
 

bb21

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Obviously this advert is not aimed at anyone on here, so can we all stop bellyaching please?

It is a PR stunt, but who is it hurting? They are arguably correct, but even if they were utterly and completely wrong, amongst their target audience will be many who have never gone that way before, so it may as well be a "brand new line" to them regardless of when the official opening was.

This really is a non-issue only seen on this forum I suspect.
 

edwin_m

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I'd put it the other way round.

On here we know the route is "new" to Northern, but 99% of the public either don't know or don't care that it has changed operator. When they travel they will probably experience a train and infrastructure that are rather careworn and not at all shiny, and if they last used it during the TPE era they may recall a much newer and quite shiny 185. So while not strictly false it's a pretty feeble bit of advertising. If the product doesn't match up to the hype then the hype is arguably counter-productive.
 
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Kendalian

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A loop part way along would be better, otherwise one train would be trapped at Windermere for at least as long as it took the other one to run the length of the branch, unless the line was equipped with enough signals for two trains to run close together in the same direction. Given your name, can you update my hazy recollection that the bed of the second track at Kendal is still free?

There's enough room for a second track, but not a platform since they built a car park for the Doctors' surgery who took over the station building.

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-mlSj16sEz9Q/VGH_eRLK-nI/AAAAAAAAR2c/cJQ8dYpJEhU/s1600/SAM_6867.JPG

Agree about the loop. Could run half hourly trains at peak times. Second platform would be very useful as well (excursions etc) but given the choice between the 2 I would choose the loop!
 
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