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All Eurostar services suspended

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richardio123

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I never usually make new threads but

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30863024

Eurostar has suspended all services after smoke was detected in the Channel Tunnel, the company says.

Update:

Eurotunnel spokesman John O'Keefe said passenger and freight services were suspended just after 11.25 GMT.

He said that two alarms were triggered, and that inspectors had been sent into the tunnel to investigate.

Mr O'Keefe said: "Two detectors are telling us that there is something to inspect so we stopped the traffic and sent in the inspectors to see what they say.

"The investigation into the two alarms is going on at the moment so as soon we know more we'll let [everyone] know."

From Twitter

@Eurostar it's likely that all trains will be suspended for the rest of today, rebook via ticket desk or 03432 186186.

From Sky News

http://news.sky.com/story/1409783/eurostar-cancels-all-trains-after-lorry-fire

A Kent police spokesman said: "A lorry fire has led to the closure of both bores of the Channel Tunnel.

"The fire was at the French end of the tunnel and is being dealt with by the French authorities. There are no reported injuries.
 
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sonic2009

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I wonder if Eurostar will be using Ashford to unload trains returning from the tunnel? St Pancras must be full?
 

WatcherZero

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Hotter environment with less airflow meaning if a engine has been run hot it cant cool down as well.

Whats fascinated me is this has been a headline story for many local newspapers all the way to Lincoln.
 

HowardGWR

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Hotter environment with less airflow meaning if a engine has been run hot it cant cool down as well.

Whats fascinated me is this has been a headline story for many local newspapers all the way to Lincoln.

I noticed that and I doubt whether many travellers would rely on local press web sites for travel news. What would have been more helpful is Eurostar having advice a bit more helpful than 'you can get a refund'. Don't they have agreements whereby one could get a SE service to Dover, then ferry, then train to Paris or Brussels with the same tickets? How about people who booked hotels - can they get refunds?

I am very interested as to why such drastic action was taken because of smoke alarm in only one portion of one tunnel - it seems most strange.
 

Antman

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From what I heard the delay was caused by getting the smoke out of the tunnel.

Tunnel shuttles will resume this evening but Eurostar services not until tomorrow.
 
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L&Y Robert

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But there are two tunnels, aren't there? I understood that traffic could be switched to the 'good' tunnel in the event of an incident in 'the other (bad)' tunnel. Why, there's even cross-over facilities from the one to the other within the tunnels! So why have both been closed? Limited capacity with just one bore in use I grant, but at least the job isn't stopped dead, is it?
 

brianthegiant

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Hotter environment with less airflow meaning if a engine has been run hot it cant cool down as well.
Yes, in this case it sounds like a 'smouldering cargo' but I suppose the same would apply, a latent problem more likely to emerge in tunnel than elsewhere.

I am very interested as to why such drastic action was taken because of smoke alarm in only one portion of one tunnel - it seems most strange.
True- unclear why both tunnels seem to be closed. Though I suspect there needs to be substantial inspection of structures & & systems to verify they are undamaged. Media mostly reports about smoke, but at this stage it's unclear the exact extent of the damage.
 

starrymarkb

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But there are two tunnels, aren't there? I understood that traffic could be switched to the 'good' tunnel in the event of an incident in 'the other (bad)' tunnel. Why, there's even cross-over facilities from the one to the other within the tunnels! So why have both been closed? Limited capacity with just one bore in use I grant, but at least the job isn't stopped dead, is it?

The tunnels are not airtight between each other (only the service tunnel is airtight, there are piston relief ducts at IIRC 150m intervals connecting the running tunnels), smoke will fill both tunnels so has to be vented out first - suspect their resuming service will be using the good tunnel
 

edwin_m

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The tunnels are not airtight between each other (only the service tunnel is airtight, there are piston relief ducts at IIRC 150m intervals connecting the running tunnels), smoke will fill both tunnels so has to be vented out first - suspect their resuming service will be using the good tunnel

The preferred method of evacuating a stranded train is to stop another train in the other tunnel and transfer passengers through the cross-passages. If the other tunnel is still useable this is much quicker than bringing people out via the service tunnel and also less disruptive to the activities of the emergency services. The piston relief valves are able to be closed, and this was presumably done so any smoke did not get to the rescued passengers.

I think the only way of providing fresh air to the incident tunnel must be to close all connections with the other tunnel and then blow air right through. During a fire incident ventilation is always from the front to the back of the affected train, to supply fresh air to the passengers and crew who travel at the front of an HGV shuttle. With the fire on a train approaching the French portal, this means the smoke will have had to be blown all the way through to the English portal (following trains having presumably reversed out before the smoke reached them).

Thus while the non-incident tunnel should in theory be unaffected once rescue is complete, the whole length of the incident tunnel will be closed until all smoke has cleared. With only a single line available over the entire length the service that could be run would be very infrequent and probably not worthwhile. However it should be possible to bring at least the unaffected two thirds of the north tunnel back into use quite quickly with single line reduced to just the eastern section by use of one of the underground crossovers. I imagine this will have happened by tomorrow morning as Eurostar has announced a near-normal service.

The time to restore the rest of the incident tunnel depends on the severity of damage. In the two big fires this was several months each, as the concrete roof had to be rebuilt. I get the impression this fire is less severe so hopefully normal service will be resumed quite soon.
 
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30907

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Don't they have agreements whereby one could get a SE service to Dover, then ferry, then train to Paris or Brussels with the same tickets?

I've not heard that they do, and given that it takes at least 9 hours these days, I can see why!
 

edwin_m

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They're reporting that the damage appears to be minor, but they still have to remove the incident train and repair anything they find. This could be difficult if the train is no longer able to move on its own wheels.

I suspect, as I posted above, that two thirds of the north tunnel is now open. But if this is so the complexities of this arrangement are probably lost on the average journo.
 

SpacePhoenix

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If there is a rail link between Ashford and Dover, could they have used Javelins to take people from St Pancras to Dover, Dover to Callais by ferry, then possibly from Callai Freten station by either Eurostar or TGV to Paris or Brussels as appropriate?

Not seen any pics of the damage, hopefully there is no damage to the cabling
 

woodhead

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How did they manage to run firey beasts one after the other through the Severn tunnel? Now that was real fire and smoke big time! In fact I do not recall the Severn tunnel being shut for a day after the recent operation of double headed black fives through it.
 

brianthegiant

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With a steam loco, the fire is contained within the boiler. Whilst coal smoke isn't the nicest thing to breath it wont be as noxious as smoke from a truck fire where you have all manner of plastics which give of very noxious fumes if burnt at non-ideal temperatures. Think of it like the worst designed incinerator with no flue gas cleaning. Dioxins, flourans, maybe a few heavy metals, you name it.
 
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HowardGWR

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Trains are getting to Ashford reasonably on time and then are delayed an hour or more before they reach the tunnel. (RTT). Anyone know why?
 

woodhead

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If you've ever driven/fired a steam loco you'll understand that the fire is not wholly contained within the firebox - assumed you meant firebox! Clinker, sparks etc are emitted in considerable amounts from the grate and exhaust. Coal smoke is pretty noxious and when you consider the intensity of steam operations there once was through the Severn tunnel, one smouldering lorry would have been insignificant by comparison.
 

HowardGWR

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If you've ever driven/fired a steam loco you'll understand that the fire is not wholly contained within the firebox - assumed you meant firebox! Clinker, sparks etc are emitted in considerable amounts from the grate and exhaust. Coal smoke is pretty noxious and when you consider the intensity of steam operations there once was through the Severn tunnel, one smouldering lorry would have been insignificant by comparison.
Yes if they had had smoke alarms, they would never have ceased to ring! Same goes for other long tunnels in the days of steam. Crew could pass out.
 

RT4038

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I noticed that and I doubt whether many travellers would rely on local press web sites for travel news. What would have been more helpful is Eurostar having advice a bit more helpful than 'you can get a refund'. Don't they have agreements whereby one could get a SE service to Dover, then ferry, then train to Paris or Brussels with the same tickets? How about people who booked hotels - can they get refunds?

I am very interested as to why such drastic action was taken because of smoke alarm in only one portion of one tunnel - it seems most strange.

I don't think the ferry option is as simple as this - firstly, foot passenger traffic is normally minimal [last time I travelled a mere 8 passengers] and is officially compulsory reservation (the reason behind this is that the quantity of ships crew is tailored to the number of passengers travelling [by law] and could not cope with train loads of additional passengers at short notice). secondly, foot passengers no longer walk from station/terminal building but are conveyed by internal bus - the number of these are governed by 'normal' loads (perhaps 50 passengers at most] and could not cope with Eurostar numbers of passengers just 'turning up'. Thirdly - there is no bus link from Dover Priory to the ferry terminal any more (withdrawn due to low usage), and that at Calais to a sporadic timetable. Foot passengers are not conveyed at all outside of normal hours (roughly 0900-1800), presumably to reduce the internal bus costs to one drivers' shift only. I expect that it would be possible to overcome all these obstacles, by spending lots of money on standby payments, this kind of disruption occurs vey rarely and probably does not represent good value for money on Eurostar's part.
 

starrymarkb

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Trains are getting to Ashford reasonably on time and then are delayed an hour or more before they reach the tunnel. (RTT). Anyone know why?

Waiting for a slot? Have to wonder how much of the North tunnel is open? Up to the UK crossover or the French Crossover? Shuttles are reduced to 2 per hour (1 passenger and one truck)
 
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edwin_m

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Waiting for a slot? Have to wonder how much of the North tunnel is open? Up to the UK crossover or the French Crossover? Shuttles are reduced to 2 per hour (1 passenger and one truck)

Despite my earlier thoughts I wonder if the whole north tunnel is closed. With a journey time of about 20min each way that would allow one of each type of shuttle and one Eurostar in each direction if they are flighted to follow each other closely.
 

185

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The media seem to be taking alot of pleasure in this disruption today.

Perhaps they should. It surprises me Eurostar & Eurotunnel have no plan B for instances of the tunnel being shut or blocked.... Tens of thousands of people stranded.

Perhaps if there was an alternative available, perhaps a Rail Replacement Ferry. Would require two x 2km spurs to stations beyond each end of the tunnel.

Other consideration, single line / bidirectional running - it seems they only do this as a last resort. It wouldn't be too technically difficult to send 6 sets through in squadron fashion westbound then 6 eastbound. If the smoke detection is in tunnel A, as long as there is no detection in the service tunnel, tunnel B should continue to be used as long as the emergency doors are draughtproof.
 

Taunton

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Perhaps they should. It surprises me Eurostar & Eurotunnel have no plan B for instances of the tunnel being shut or blocked.... Tens of thousands of people stranded.
This constantly comes up when the Tunnel is disorganised. The whole idea of the crossovers was to give some resilience at times like this, or even for engineering needs, and while you will not get the full capacity there should be a plan, in some detail, for how to handle closure of each section. There should be a timetable for flighting maybe 10 trains together each way, but when closures happen it just seems to deteriorate to a spasmodic operation.
 

jon0844

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I like the idea of building a couple of rail replacement ships!

I suspect that if things ever got so bad, it would likely be air used as a plan b. Far better geared up for large numbers of people and their luggage.
 
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