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All Eurostar services suspended

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DownSouth

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I wasn't aware of this system, does it just have an automatic alarm if temperature is above a certain level, or do they have operators looking at thermal camera images for heat in unexpected places - I expect the latter to be much more likely to pick something up but obviously costly in staff time
From memory (happy to be corrected if I'm remembering wrongly), catalytic converters and diesel particulate filters that are in regen mode can easily hit 500C and higher. That would make it very difficult to distinguish between normal high temperature components and the beginnings of a fire. Equally, those very hot parts of the exhaust system can be the cause of a fire if something comes in contact with them before they cool, which is why most vehicles carry a warning in the handbook not to park on long dry grass, or otherwise park where combustable material can come in contact with the exhaust.
It shouldn't be hard to set up an automatic monitoring system to work with feeds from thermal imaging cameras.

The code involved would be quite similar to that used in a video editing program to pick out levels that are not broadcast safe (TV has a restricted dynamic range compared to cinema, the main reason that movies always look worse on TV) and could easily be programmed with different alert thresholds for different segments of the field of view as appropriate.
 
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starrymarkb

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Witness what happened recently at Stansted when some inbound and outbound passengers accidentally mixed briefly. The entire terminal was cleared out and EVERYONE had to be put through security again. This was despite the inbound passengers having cleared security in Lisbon. I could understand it if the mixture was between landside and airside!
 

Bletchleyite

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Witness what happened recently at Stansted when some inbound and outbound passengers accidentally mixed briefly. The entire terminal was cleared out and EVERYONE had to be put through security again. This was despite the inbound passengers having cleared security in Lisbon. I could understand it if the mixture was between landside and airside!

Unlike the rest of the EU who formally trust each others' security, the UK doesn't trust anyone's. Probably overkill.

Neil
 

brianthegiant

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From memory (happy to be corrected if I'm remembering wrongly), catalytic converters and diesel particulate filters that are in regen mode can easily hit 500C and higher. That would make it very difficult to distinguish between normal high temperature components and the beginnings of a fire. Equally, those very hot parts of the exhaust system can be the cause of a fire if something comes in contact with them before they cool, which is why most vehicles carry a warning in the handbook not to park on long dry grass, or otherwise park where combustable material can come in contact with the exhaust.

Yes, but with a thermal imaging camera taken side on at the truck you can distinguish between the engine compartment and the trailer area.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermographic_camera
You could even use automatic image recognition techniques as mentioned by Downsouth, these can already be used to highlight abandoned baggage on CCTV screens for example.
 

johnnychips

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I took the plane from Brussels to London as I had to get to work. Can I get any money back for that? Or will it just be the return half of the E* journey?
 

RT4038

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The logical solution, if enough vehicles and internationally qualified drivers could be found, may be instead to hire coaches with priority for those who can prove they must travel. These coaches would then run Ashford - Calais Frethun, with rail shuttles connecting at either end.

Thus.... St Pancras - Ashford by train, coach via ferry to Calais, train to Paris. You'd only need 14 coaches of about 50 seats each to shift a whole Eurostar load of about 700 pax - the logitics of that with the ferry are much simpler.

So 14 coaches per trainload... 28 coaches per hour to keep the normal volume moving... probably four hours Ashford to Calais including loading / unloading and arranged priority boarding of the ferry... eight hour round trip; ferry crossing would count as rest time ( would it? ).... maximum of 224 coaches and drivers needing to be sourced... 112 each from UK and France...

It's not a paricularly large number of buses / coaches to source either given that you'd only need a few urgently and the rest over the next few hours and that you're talking about a very tourist-orientated part of both countries.

1. Why would the ferry company give priority boarding to 'tunnel replacement' coaches? They are going to give priority to their pre-booked customers, particularly those who are regular customers, which the 'tunnel replacement coaches certainly are not. 2. Remember that every lorry will also be seeking to divert to the ferries (many with time sensitive cargoes) and the general congestion at the ports will probably make the 4 hr journey much longer. 3. Traveling from Calais, each coach will have to negotiate French and British immigration, and security checks. This quantity of extra traffic will cause massive delays in clearance. 4. Will the manning levels on the ferry be sufficient to legally all these extra passengers arriving at such short notice? 5. Procuring this quantity of coaches at short notice will be nigh on impossible; both for the administration of Eurostar and of the coach companies. 6. I don't think Calais Frethun station is geared up to deal with this quantity of passengers, nor to turn round and hold Eurostar trains terminating there.

This plan is just a non-starter, and likely to see scenes such as at Finsbury Park on 27 December. Much better to cope with crowds at St Pancras, Paris and Brussels, and to advise people not to travel and re-book for another day. The capability of dealing with large quantities of foot passengers has been lost on the Dover - Calais route (through lack of demand)
 

HowardGWR

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I notice that the ES services are still having to queue at the tunnel and does anyone know why the situation has not been 'mended' yet?

There are still cancellations and delays of 30 to 90 mins. :(
 

Hophead

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This plan is just a non-starter, and likely to see scenes such as at Finsbury Park on 27 December. Much better to cope with crowds at St Pancras, Paris and Brussels, and to advise people not to travel and re-book for another day. The capability of dealing with large quantities of foot passengers has been lost on the Dover - Calais route (through lack of demand)

Indeed. Many rail enthusiasts are happy to crow about the superiority of rail over other modes and how the trains have wiped out the competition. When everything goes wrong, though, some of them want those old, unfashionable modes back to mop up the problem. Not sure it's going to work like that.
 

Bletchleyite

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Indeed. Many rail enthusiasts are happy to crow about the superiority of rail over other modes and how the trains have wiped out the competition. When everything goes wrong, though, some of them want those old, unfashionable modes back to mop up the problem. Not sure it's going to work like that.

I'm very pro-rail, but Eurostar doesn't do anything whatsoever to sell itself to me. Expensive, dirty, tatty trains, slower than air (I don't live in London but do live local to Luton airport and not terribly far from Stansted), still has security even so, no option to check a bag in, and these reliability issues which don't hit air to anything like the same extent.

I'd rather fly easyJet, even if I then pick up with rail once I get across the Channel.

Neil
 

Mag_seven

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Eurostar don't seem to cover themselves in glory when there is disruption regardless of whether its their fault or not. There have been incidents of Eurostar passengers trapped on trains for hours due to power or train failures:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17267851


Remember the famous cold weather farces when Eurostars broke down when entering the tunnel when the temperatures outside were below zero:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8511857.stm
 

flash

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Eurostar don't seem to cover themselves in glory when there is disruption regardless of whether its their fault or not. There have been incidents of Eurostar passengers trapped on trains for hours due to power or train failures:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17267851


Remember the famous cold weather farces when Eurostars broke down when entering the tunnel when the temperatures outside were below zero:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8511857.stm

Recently then!
 

Antman

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The mayhem has also spread to the roads with operation stack on the M20
 

mrmatt

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If I remember rightly, the main issue behind the use of the lattice wagons is weight.

...

I do agree that the lorry wagons need to be fully enclosed.

The report into the 1996 fire states that the issue is that with a fully loaded articulated lorry the axle weight limit would be exceeded if fully enclosed wagons are used.
 

dysonsphere

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The report into the 1996 fire states that the issue is that with a fully loaded articulated lorry the axle weight limit would be exceeded if fully enclosed wagons are used.
Prehaps they should have thought of that at the basic design stage. A heavier axle loading should have being easy to arrange in the tunnel as its a closed system for shuttles, bit late to change it now.
 

HowardGWR

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Update
After a blip this morning, all are on time today ( see RTT) so I suppose the north tunnel / 'power supply problems' are now fixed. Nothing in the press about that though.
 
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