All Ireland rail review €37bn of projects

[Snow1964]

Ireland has just published an all Ireland rail review, with €37bn of plans through to 2050
Some routes could see journey times halved if 125mph (200km/h) trains are introduced and sections of lines improved

The recommendations include:

– Restore a line linking Portadown in Co Armagh with Mullingar in Co Westmeath. The line would pass through Armagh and Cavan.

– Restore a line between Derry and Portadown, linking the towns of Strabane, Omagh and Dungannon to the network.

– Build a new direct line between Lisburn and Newry.

– Restore a line between Athenry in Co Galway and Claremorris in Co Mayo, connecting Tuam in Co Galway to the network.

– Reinstate the South Wexford railway.

– Develop a new rail link from Letterkenny in Co Donegal to Derry.

– Build a rail link that would cross central Dublin – potentially via a tunnel – to connect Heuston station, which receives trains from the south of the island, with the northern line that serves Connolly station.

– Connect Dublin, Shannon and Belfast International airports to the rail network. In Dublin, the move would complement the existing plan for a Metrolink from the airport into the city centre, and would enable intercity services to access directly the island’s biggest airport. Reinstating the Lisburn to Antrim line would enable Belfast International to be served by a rail link while in Shannon the review recommends the building of a spur to facilitate a rail link with Limerick.

The review also recommends several steps to improve the quality on existing lines, including additional track capacity, electrification, increased speeds and higher service frequencies.

The use of new 200kmh trains would see times on some intercity routes halved, the review says.

All-island rail review sets out €37 billion plan to improve services | BreakingNews.ie

The 25-year blueprint includes recommendations for several new lines and rails links to three airports.

www.breakingnews.ie

It appears a separate €1bn project to extend the Dublin Dart commuter network to Maynooth with upto 12 trains per hour has also been agreed.

 

[duesselmartin]

even if only half of it was implemented, it would be a huge leap foreward.

 

[farci]

Brilliant. Can’t wait for a similar strategic plan for Scotland!!….

Hello?

 

[HamBuoy]

The final report is now available online https://www.gov.ie/pdf/?file=https://assets.gov.ie/301092/e716ec64-4732-48ed-97cf-4395af2fb1f7.pdf

 

[Flying Snail]

Abject fantasy designed to generate publicity and nothing more, plus a regular income stream for the leeches in the consultancy industry copy/pasting basically the same thing every few years, the Irish government loves funding these crooks.

 

[deltic]

Abject fantasy designed to generate publicity and nothing more, plus a regular income stream for the leeches in the consultancy industry copy/pasting basically the same thing every few years, the Irish government loves funding these crooks.

While I wouldn't go that far, I agree most of it is fantasy.

Not clear why restoring the direct link between Cork and Limerick was not included.

 

[OxtedL]

The draft version of this report was discussed here:

Ireland: All-Island Strategic Rail Review published

The draft report of the All-Island Strategic Rail Review has finally been issued although it cannot be formally published until the NI Transport Minister signs it off, which requires a functioning NI Assembly, which requires the DUP... [snipped for politics]...

www.railforums.co.uk

I would be interested to know what differences there are in this version if anyone with more time can comment...!

 

[LLivery]

I notice Newtownards 'falls out of the scope' as it'd be a commuter line for Belfast. But I'd imagine it'd have the best case to reopen, along with the Armagh route. Feels a bit mad there seems to be no push for it.

 

[Cloud Strife]

One thing that has always mystified me is why direct Derry-Dublin trains haven't been introduced. You can't even buy a train ticket directly between the two cities!

 

[Elwyn]

One thing that has always mystified me is why direct Derry-Dublin trains haven't been introduced. You can't even buy a train ticket directly between the two cities!

I think the answer is largely because there isn’t that much through traffic, it’s quicker by the direct bus and also because the De-Dietrich trains used on the Belfast - Dublin route are too long fit in the mostly 6 carriage platforms on the Belfast - Derry line.

You can buy a ticket from Derry - Dublin but it can be hard to get the ticket offices to do it. They tend to tell you to rebook in Belfast.

 

[rvdborgt]

You can buy a ticket from Derry - Dublin but it can be hard to get the ticket offices to do it. They tend to tell you to rebook in Belfast.

Thereby making it more expensive? I'd say that's a sales error.

 

[Trainbike46]

Thereby making it more expensive? I'd say that's a sales error.

Is it actually more expensive? it's not necessarily the case

 

[bib]

Even at ~£30bn, some of the costings seem optimistic, I'd be amazed if you could build at least 25mi of new double track 125mph line between Newry and Lisburn plus approx 6mi of tunnel from Lisburn into Belfast for £2bn.

 

[D6130]

Also, there's no way that you're going to get a firm foundation for a 200 km/h line across the extensive peat bogs of the Irish Midlands. There's a very good reason why the Portarlington-Galway, Athlone-Westport/Ballina and Mullingar-Sligo lines have a maximum permitted speed of 70 mph/112 km/h - even since relaying with CWR and deep ballast - and you can see and feel it if you travel over those lines in the driver's cab.

I am however very much in favour of reopening and upgrading the South Wexford Line (Waterford-Rosslare)....along with the re-establishment of rail freight handling facilities at Rosslare Europort. If the lines's structures permit - and Snow Hill Tunnel at the West end of the Barrow Bridge may have to be enlarged - it could be a very useful route for carrying swap-bodies, road trailers, etc....although similar works would have to be carried out on the Limerick Junction-Waterford line. Added to that - if the infrastructure is there - they could reinstate the daily railcar service for students to and from Waterford....possibly with through running to and from Wexford, with reversal at Rosslare Strand.

A high-speed line from Newry to Lisburn is pure fantasy IMHO....but lots more could be done to improve the existing Dublin-Belfast main line, including electrification and ironing-out some of the sharper curves - especially Poyntzpass.

 

[bangor-toad]

I notice Newtownards 'falls out of the scope' as it'd be a commuter line for Belfast. But I'd imagine it'd have the best case to reopen, along with the Armagh route. Feels a bit mad there seems to be no push for it.

I can't see the old route from Belfast to Newtownards being considered. It takes a big loop to the south via Comber and a lot of the track bed is built on, especially within Belfast and the Comber by-pass.

The simplest improvement of links between Newtownards & Belfast would be to extend the Glider bus service. It's a clear run down a dual carriageway from the current terminus at the Park and Ride to Newtownards. It'd be *much* cheaper and faster than rebuilding a railway. I don't think even this will happen though as it's easy enough to drive to the Park and Ride from Newtownards or to take one of the current direct and fairly frequent buses.

Cheers,
Mr Toad.

 

[LLivery]

Some of this does feel crayon like. I wouldn't expect some of these proposals to ever get the light of day unless there's unification and they get built for more political 'knitting together the island' reasons.

I can't see the old route from Belfast to Newtownards being considered. It takes a big loop to the south via Comber and a lot of the track bed is built on, especially within Belfast and the Comber by-pass.

The simplest improvement of links between Newtownards & Belfast would be to extend the Glider bus service. It's a clear run down a dual carriageway from the current terminus at the Park and Ride to Newtownards. It'd be *much* cheaper and faster than rebuilding a railway. I don't think even this will happen though as it's easy enough to drive to the Park and Ride from Newtownards or to take one of the current direct and fairly frequent buses.

Cheers,
Mr Toad.

I thought avoiding the Comber altogether, but it would serve a reasonable community there too. The rail route could always divert to the northern edges of Comber with a more of a 'Parkway' station, then back onto the old alignment to Newtownards. Extending the Gilder would make sense, but would it really be suitable for the long term?

 

[fishwomp]

Even at ~£30bn, some of the costings seem optimistic, I'd be amazed if you could build at least 25mi of new double track 125mph line between Newry and Lisburn plus approx 6mi of tunnel from Lisburn into Belfast for £2bn.

So, £30bn, or, for a population of the whole island of around 7m people (£4,000 per person) versus £50-100bn for HS2 in UK spread over 70m population.…

Nope, that's not happening in full.

Snippets like Wexford to Waterford reopening, would be great, but reality is that south east Ireland has better roads and motorways now than it had when that was first mothballed so it'll take a lot of convincing. The current Rosslare to Dublin service is far from frequent, even though the fares are very reasonable.

 

[bib]

So, £30bn, or, for a population of the whole island of around 7m people (£4,000 per person) versus £50-100bn for HS2 in UK spread over 70m population.…

Nope, that's not happening in full.

However it is spread over approx 25 years, and Ireland is in the rather unique position of having too much money at the moment - 7-10 billion per year, so they could probably afford it, and infrastructure investment would seem to be one of the better ways to spend it as it would stimulate long-term growth in the real economy without bumping up day-to-day spending commitments and increasing the risk of running out of money if big tech moves to some other low tax country and corporation tax revenue falls back to what it used to be.

The concern Ireland’s €10bn surplus could turn from a ‘good problem’ to a bad one

“Sound like one of them good problems.”

www.thejournal.ie

The government previously predicted surpluses would amount to €65bn in the four years between 2023 and 2026, inclusive, although it has since cautioned this number will be revised down somewhat on Budget Day

Irish budget: Government ran €8.3bn surplus last year

The Irish government ran a budget surplus of €8.3bn (£7.1bn) last year.

www.bbc.co.uk

The Irish government ran a budget surplus of €8.3bn (£7.1bn) last year, equivalent to just under 3% of national income.

 

[fishwomp]

However it is spread over approx 25 years, and Ireland is in the rather unique position of having too much money at the moment - 7-10 billion per year, so they could probably afford it, and infrastructure investment would seem to be one of the better ways to spend it as it would stimulate long-term growth in the real economy without bumping up day-to-day spending commitments and increasing the risk of running out of money if big tech moves to some other low tax country and corporation tax revenue falls back to what it used to be.

The concern Ireland’s €10bn surplus could turn from a ‘good problem’ to a bad one

“Sound like one of them good problems.”

www.thejournal.ie

Irish budget: Government ran €8.3bn surplus last year

The Irish government ran a budget surplus of €8.3bn (£7.1bn) last year.

www.bbc.co.uk

That is true

Instead of the Boris Bridge or Tunnel to NI, maybe Dublin should outright just build a Dublin - Holyhead tunnel. They could hire a consultant to find that this would bring them nearer to their trading partners, increase prosperity etc. There are still lorry loads (trailers) going to France via UK, seen plenty in recent months (on Rosslare -S Wales routes) even if less than pre-Brexit, it is still there and would grow if it were quicker.

 

[craigybagel]

Also, there's no way that you're going to get a firm foundation for a 200 km/h line across the extensive peat bogs of the Irish Midlands. There's a very good reason why the Portarlington-Galway, Athlone-Westport/Ballina and Mullingar-Sligo lines have a maximum permitted speed of 70 mph/112 km/h - even since relaying with CWR and deep ballast - and you can see and feel it if you travel over those lines in the driver's cab.

As always I defer to @berneyarms for such things but I'm 99% sure both the Galway and Sligo lines permit higher speeds than 70mph

I am however very much in favour of reopening and upgrading the South Wexford Line (Waterford-Rosslare)....along with the re-establishment of rail freight handling facilities at Rosslare Europort.

The line already passes a port with rail freight handling facilities.

If the lines's structures permit - and Snow Hill Tunnel at the West end of the Barrow Bridge may have to be enlarged - it could be a very useful route for carrying swap-bodies, road trailers, etc....although similar works would have to be carried out on the Limerick Junction-Waterford line.

Any such traffic would probably be much easier catered for via the ports in Dublin or Foynes.

Added to that - if the infrastructure is there - they could reinstate the daily railcar service for students to and from Waterford....possibly with through running to and from Wexford, with reversal at Rosslare Strand.

A Wexford - Rosslare - Waterford train would take far longer than the existing bus service between Wexford and Waterford. If there was a large population served going via Rosslare that would be one thing, but the South Wexford only ever served relatively small villages.

That is true

Instead of the Boris Bridge or Tunnel to NI, maybe Dublin should outright just build a Dublin - Holyhead tunnel. They could hire a consultant to find that this would bring them nearer to their trading partners, increase prosperity etc. There are still lorry loads (trailers) going to France via UK, seen plenty in recent months (on Rosslare -S Wales routes) even if less than pre-Brexit, it is still there and would grow if it were quicker.

Bear in mind a Dublin - Holyhead tunnel would cost a whole lot more than the Channel Tunnel and serve a much smaller market. And the Channel Tunnel has hardly been a huge financial success has it?

 

[Railsigns]

As always I defer to @berneyarms for such things but I'm 99% sure both the Galway and Sligo lines permit higher speeds than 70mph

Much of the Sligo line has a permissible speed of 75 mph, and the Galway line is up to 90 mph and even 100 mph in places.

 

[craigybagel]

Much of the Sligo line has a permissible speed of 75 mph, and the Galway line is up to 90 mph and even 100 mph in places.

Thank you, that's what I thought. It's been a few years since I travelled on either but I was sure I saw signs with higher speeds than 70.

 

[dubscottie]

Much of the Sligo line has a permissible speed of 75 mph, and the Galway line is up to 90 mph and even 100 mph in places.

Yes, Sligo to Maynooth is 75mph max. This is mainly due to the number of curves and farm crossings (and poor visibility from vegetation for the driver) rather than track condition.
Athlone to Galway is 90mph max.
Rosslare line has similar issues although vegetation was cut back in places to allow the driver a clear view around the curve.
Didn't go down too well.

You can buy a ticket from Derry - Dublin but it can be hard to get the ticket offices to do it. They tend to tell you to rebook in Belfast.

You can buy a ticket in NI to almost anywhere in the ROI. It used to work both ways but since 99% of the booking offices in the ROI closed, its impossible now.

 

[D6130]

Much of the Sligo line has a permissible speed of 75 mph, and the Galway line is up to 90 mph and even 100 mph in places.

Yes, thanks from me too. Things must have changed for the better since my last trips on those routes.