All Line Rover Advice Please!

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by Gizmogle, 21 Jul 2007.

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  1. Techniquest

    Techniquest Veteran Member

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    I ended up clicking outside of the text box and hit Backspace on my last post...Just spent 30 minutes typing up lots of good advice too...:-x

    Here we go with a much more brief lot of advice instead:

    Avoid places like McDonalds for food. These provide only 'empty' calories, leaving you with less money and a further need to eat only a while later.

    Stock up on plenty of drinks, especially on busy trains in summer. Use offers in supermarkets to your advantage. Avoid paying inflated prices on board whenever possible.

    Think about following a train's diagram.

    Consider allowing impluse to decide where you go for the day.

    Make plans. Then make a back-up. Then even think about making a back-up for the other two plans. All to allow for failures, turning-backs and cancellations on the day.

    Allow plenty of time for connections at major stations. Sounds obvious but a 1 minute connection at Bristol TM is not that likely to reap rewards. Platform 3 to platform 15 with luggage, running, at this station in particular is not recommended!

    Try to cover the Heart of Wales if it is not already done. It's beautiful on a nice day. Same applies to the Pembroke Dock line.

    If you're in Wales on overnight moves, try the following:

    If in South Wales, go for the 2345 Swansea - Fishguard Harbour and 0150 return (plenty of time then for the 0400 HST and more than enough time for the 0436 Swansea - Shrewsbury via the HoW on arrival back at Swansea). Approximately 34 minutes to wander around, get snacks, pick up leaflets (for reading when bored/unable to sleep), make phone calls, get fresh air and get photos.

    If in North Wales, get the penultimate train to Holyhead (check the timetable first!) then the 0150 Holyhead - Birmingham New Street back to Crewe (around 0400) or beyond. Plenty of time here for photos, snacks, fresh air, pick up leaflets and make phone calls.

    Hope the above is of use to you both.

    Kind regards,
    Julian
     
  2. metrocammel

    metrocammel Member

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    That list is not at all definitive. You can get PRIV on ALL rovers (ie, the above list misses out things such as CST PKS, FOSS, FOSW, FONE, FONW & Scottish Rvrs &c &c....) Regarding Day Rangers, it does depend on which one- the "larger area" day rvrs, such as the the ones mentioned above have RCD/PRIV discounts, but then "PTE Rangers", such as the GM RANGER or Centro things dont have any discounts.

    It is only the rule if you are actually a member of staff, using boxes- If you have a ticket, Privileged or otherwise, you can reserve a seat - and if you are using boxes, and you are a retired member of staff or widower, you don't have to give up your seat.
     
  3. W14Fishbourne

    W14Fishbourne Member

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    That list was compiled from the National Fares Manual. None of the others mention anything about a discount for Priv. Have a look at Section G if you don't believe me. I have to say that I was quite surprised to see the others left out. FOSW certainly used to offer a priv discount but now it says:

    so nothing for Forces or Family Railcard holders either.

    The latter part is correct (I'd assumed that Gismogle doesn't qualify as Retired!), but not the former in so far as:

    FGW: All holders of free and privilege travel facilities are requested to avoid travelling on heavily loaded trains where possible and not to take or remain in seats which could otherwise be occupied by fare-paying passengers.

    TPE: Active staff holders of Standard Class travel facilities are requested to vacate their seats if fare paying customers are standing.

    Virgin: Active staff holders of National Rail Standard travel facilities are requested to vacate their seats if farepaying customers are standing.

    Hull Trains: All staff holding hull trains staff travel passes or ATOC Rail Staff Travel passes must not reserve seats on hull trains services. Pass holders are required to give up seats to passengers when demand is high.

    Hardly worth reserving seats on these services if you have to give them up anyway when the train gets full. However, me123 was right in that seats can currently be reserved by staff on Scotrail.
     
  4. Gizmogle

    Gizmogle Established Member

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    ALR should be happening over the 15th to 21st of August.
    We're gonna get stuck with a Sunday right in the middle, so are there (I'm aware of Okehampton) any sunday service only places?
    Also, anything decent going to be around between those dates?
     
  5. Craig

    Craig Established Member

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    DalesRail runs between Clitheroe and Hellifield which is usually freight only.
    http://www.dalesrail.com/timetables.htm

    Okehampton would probably be better use of your ALR though. You could do DalesRail any Sunday really.
     
  6. Gizmogle

    Gizmogle Established Member

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    Well, the planning has begun :D
    These were done by me and Dan last night at 2am, so there'll probably be some alterations as we experiment with different timings.
    Opinions? Have we done anything stupid on them? :p

    Isle of Wight
    Code:
     Arr|Dep
    xxxx|0834 North Camp
    0847|0904 Guildford
    1010|1015 Portsmouth Harbour
    1033|1049 Ryde Pier Head
    1113|1117 Shanklin
    1133|1213 Smallbrook Junction
    1234|1242 Wootton
    1311|1352 Smallbrook Junction
    1400|1415 Ryde Pier Head
    1430|1506 Portsmouth Harbour
    1559|1611 Barnham
    1617|1622 Bognor Regis
    1628|1635 Barnham
    1644|1648 Littlehampton
    1652|1715 Ford
    1749|1809 Horsham
    1847|1917 Epsom
    1952|2013 Guildford
    2026|xxxx North Camp

    Heart of Wales

    Code:
     Arr|Dep
    xxxx|0720 North Camp
    0750|0811 Reading
    0929|0937 Newport
    1147|1305 Carmarthen
    1328|1337 Llanelli
    1636|1729 Craven Arms
    1853|1947 Stockport
    xxxx|2036 Buxton

    South Wales

    Code:
     Arr|Dep
    xxxx|0634 Buxton
    0719|0737 Stockport
    0844|0905 Shrewsbury
    1230|1321 Llanelli
    1451|1510 Milford Haven	
    1725|1749 Bridgend
    1815|1820 Maesteg
    1842|1900 Bridgend
    2057|2134 Reading
    2203|xxxx North Camp
    Settle & Carlisle
    Code:
     Arr|Dep
    xxxx|0836 Buxton
    0932|0942 Manchester Piccadilly
    1036|1049 Leeds
    1329|1337 Carlisle
    1455|1512 Newcastle
    1751|1806 Manchester Piccadilly
    xxxx|1908 Buxton

    Blaenau Ffestiniog

    Code:
     Arr|Dep
    xxxx|0704 Buxton
    0800|0816 Manchester Piccadilly
    1017|1033 Llandudno Junction
    1130|1155 Blaenau Ffesiniog
    1255|1400 Minffordd
    1548|1602 Machynlleth
    1721|1754 Shrewsbury
    1853|1947 Stockport
    2036|xxxx Buxton
    Askern Line in there somewhere too....
    Code:
     Arr|Dep
    xxxx|2200 Kings Cross
    0039|0201 York
    0334|xxxx Manchester Piccadilly
    :) As you can see, it's just some ideas for days and stuff. No idea which are going to be done on which days, if they even stay the same. Unfortunately, cause I'm poor (and it's rather late), sleepers are looking unlikely :(
     
  7. Craig

    Craig Established Member

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    You could do a bit of the Metro and the Durham coast that day too if you wanted.

    Code:
     Arr|Dep
    xxxx|0836 Buxton
    0932|0942 Manchester Piccadilly
    1036|1049 Leeds
    1329|1337 Carlisle
    1455|xxxx Newcastle
    Metro to Sunderland
    xxxx|1550 Sunderland
    1640|1655 Thornaby
    1924|xxx Manchester Piccadilly
    If I was you, I'd do one of the overnight moves that Captain Stoat posted to give you more time to do Wales.
     
  8. Gizmogle

    Gizmogle Established Member

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    Cheers :) Just doing some stuff with Julian's plan now :p Looks bloody exhausting!

    Got a map now of the coverage that we both need.
    http://www.littleredtrain.co.uk/coveramerged.gif
    Red = Uncovered by me and Dan
    Blue = Covered by both
    Purple = Covered by one of us

    UPDATE:
    Got some Wales done, but I'm getting stuck around the Ffestiniog railway.
    Is it possible to walk from stations in 8mins? It can be done if we walk between Minfford stations and catch it from there, but I don't want to pay for the railway, then have missed out the end and have to do it again, as I don't think it's easy to do it from Buxton in a day, and I don't wanna go on my own another time lol

    Code:
    Arr|Dep
    xxxx|3245 Swansea
    0123|0150 Fishguard Harbour
    0324|0436 Swansea
    0821|0928 Shrewsbury
    1122|1127 Aberystwyth
    1159|1256 Machynlleth
    1518|1532 Pwllheli
    1552|xxxx Porthmadog
    xxxx|1600 Porthmadog Harbour
     
  9. Craig

    Craig Established Member

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    I was going to suggest something similar, but without going to Aberystwyth or Pwllheli. Just had a look at the map and I reckon you'd be better chaning at Minffordd if you do Pwllheli.

    Code:
    xxxx|2345 Swansea
    0123|0150 Fishguard Harbour
    0325|0436 Swansea
    0821|0928 Shrewsbury 
    1042|1100 Machynlleth
    1244|xxxx Porthmadog
    xxxx|1335 Porthmadog Harbour
    1445|1454 Blaenau Ffestiniog
    1549|xxxx Llandudno Junction
    Actually, it's better going the other way, except you still can't get Aberystwyth in.
    Code:
    xxxx|0704 Buxton
    0800|0816 Manchester Piccadilly
    1017|1033 Llandudno Junction
    1130|1245 Blaenau Ffestiniog
    1310|xxxx Porthmadog Harbour
    xxxx|1453 Porthmadog 
    1518|1332 Pwllheli 
    1548|1559 Machynlleth 
    1721|1805 Shrewsbury
    2203|2225 Swansea
    0011|0015 Milford Haven
    0037|0056 Clarbeston Road
    0123|0150 Fishguard Harbour
    0325|0400 Swansea
    If you're running late the Milford Haven train stops at Shrewsbury at 1856, but goes via Cardiff.


    Can you tell I'm bored? ;)
     
  10. Gizmogle

    Gizmogle Established Member

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    That looks much better. I was trying it backwards, but was still getting stuck. Not doing Aberystwyth shouldn't matter, as I'm the one who hasn't done that, and can easily get it done in a day trip :)
     
  11. djw1981

    djw1981 Established Member

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    for sleepers, there is the seated sleeper Scotland -London Euston which can be as little as £19 return for a reclining FC seat.
     
  12. Gizmogle

    Gizmogle Established Member

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    Yes, but I think that might just kill me :p
    Do I get it on priv? Cause I was told that if I used my priv, I HAD to buy a berth.
     
  13. Craig

    Craig Established Member

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    Actually that doesn't work either - I've got the wrong times for Pwllheli :roll:

    You could do it if you went to Holyhead the night before, then got the 0150 to Crewe then back to Llandudno Junction for the first train to Blaenau Ffestiniog...
     
  14. djw1981

    djw1981 Established Member

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    As someone not eligible(?) for Priv, I have no idea how it works.
     
  15. Daniel

    Daniel Established Member

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    Basically if you or an immediate family member work for a TOC you get a Priv card giving you free/heavily discounted travel.
     
  16. Gizmogle

    Gizmogle Established Member

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    TOC or Network Rail :p
     
  17. djw1981

    djw1981 Established Member

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    Nice perk! is that a taxable benefit?
     
  18. Daniel

    Daniel Established Member

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    Can I have one? pleeeeeease? :lol:


    ---

     
  19. Techniquest

    Techniquest Veteran Member

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    Cheers for the bit in bold in that post of yours. Owning Craig is something I've wanted to do for ages!

    Also nice to see someone actually using advice I've given!:o

    I've also got some more advice, which I discovered only today. If you end up in Bath and need a nice cup of tea/coffee, maybe even a fresh baguette, I can recommend a location close to the station. I didn't have any food from there (purely to ensure I met and exceeded the 24 hours target between my last food yesterday lunchtime and lunchtime today. 25.5 hours without eating, a new record for me!), so that I'm not too sure on but it looked good. However, I did have a coffee there. Small cup of instant coffee or tea to take out was just 50p! Not a bad size cup it wasn't too!

    I doubt you'll end up in Bath, but you never know! Other advice, again a location you may not end up going to, is that there is a chip shop <2 minutes walk from the station at Bradford-on-Avon. Looked quite a respectable place, couldn't judge it as we were there around 0712 on Saturday!

    On the off-chance you end up in Bristol, I don't recommend wasting money on drinks or snacks on the station. A much better move is to go to the newsagents 4-5 minutes walk outside the station. Directions I hear you ask. Certainly...Go out of the station past the advance-purchase ticket office, out of the car park (follow signs for Temple Quay), down the ramp and the Smile local shop should be directly in front of you. Drinks and snacks are cheaper in here, usually with offers on various bottles of drinks etc, than they will be on the station. The Kings Templar, the nearest Wetherspoon to Temple Meads station, is just around the corner from there but as neither of you will be old enough I won't recommend the beers but a meal in a Wetherspoon is usually rateable.

    Can't think of much else in the way of local knowledge in this area for now. Beware if you do the Heart of Wales on a Sunday, some trains have a lot of waiting time at Llandrindod Wells (the 'Wells' suffix is not in the station name but it is part of the town name). On the off-chance you end up here waiting for a while here, I do recommend a couple of, you guessed it, chip shops. First one (directions assume exit from Shrewsbury-bound platform) is the nearest at <4 minutes walk. Out of the station, cross the road. Turn left when on other side and keep following the pavement until you hit the chippy on the right hand side. The second one I recommend also directs you across the road, this time turning right. Once on the pavement, keep following the road until you hit this chippy on the left hand side. It is not all that far from the level crossing, although stopping at this for photos isn't a good idea on Sundays due to there only being two trains a day on the line! The second chippy I would allow a ten-minute walk each way to/from. Weekdays most 153s up and down the line only stop for a few minutes, unless there is a planned lengthy wait for something to come the other way (like last time I went up it in 2006, 75 late in the end off Llandrindod it was due to a buggered 153313! Swansea run the 153 was on got cancelled and banged onto 362 going up to Shrewsbury!). Which reminds me, DO plan for cancellations and delays on that route. Whilst it is not the worst route for such, it does and WILL happen!

    3245 eh?:lol:

    Anyway, if I don't speak to you via PM or whatever in the meantime, have a fun ALR. I plan to do one eventually as the last bash I do using a Y-P (thankfully still 3 years away yet). Maybe before, we'll see how things go in the meantime.

    I might get around to seeing you two passing through Hereford, Llandrindod or Knighton at some point, but that depends on what happens in the next few weeks.

    Good luck with the planning! Drop us a line if you want any advice on local stuff in South Wales, as I should be able to help!

    Kind regards,

    Julian

    (won't let me send it as a PM for some reason, so it has to be posted!)
     
  20. Mojo

    Mojo Forum Staff Staff Member Administrator

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    Or TfL/whoever came before them pre-1996 ;) (as I have - 75% off Priv 1st class but no free travel)

    I remember when I was 15, was meeting someone at Euston, to avoid paying the expensive price of drinks at the station bought a £2 rtn to Glasgow and went in the 1st class lounge.

    Some TOCs have restrictions on travel or taking refreshments, though IME these are rarely enforced - someone I know has a "Not valid for free travel" priv, but certain TMs allow free (and possibly even free 1st class travel). Some staff can be quite generous, could possibly be a "you scratch my back, I'll scratch your's" agreement for when they want free travel on a train other employee or family members may be staffing.
     
  21. W14Fishbourne

    W14Fishbourne Member

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    I think that's the case. No privs on the seated accommodation.
     
  22. Gizmogle

    Gizmogle Established Member

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    So far, this seems to be our overall plan :)
    We have plans for some, but not all of it.

    Weds IOW/Overnight HST to Manc
    Thurs S&C, Newcastle, Metro + maybe something else
    Fri Cambrian & North Wales
    Sat Move south via the Heart of Wales
    Sun Okehampton & branches from Exeter (overnighter or sleeper)
    Mon Bits of cornwall
    Tues Castle Cary to Weymouth. Fareham to Westbury and Bristol area.

    Plan for Wednesday:
    Code:
     Arr|Dep
    xxxx|0834 North Camp
    0847|0904 Guildford
    1010|1015 Portsmouth Harbour
    1033|1049 Ryde Pier Head
    1113|1117 Shanklin
    1133|1213 Smallbrook Junction
    1234|1242 Wootton
    1311|1352 Smallbrook Junction
    1400|1415 Ryde Pier Head
    1430|1506 Portsmouth Harbour
    1559|1611 Barnham
    1617|1622 Bognor Regis
    1628|1635 Barnham
    1644|1648 Littlehampton
    1652|1715 Ford
    1749|1809 Horsham
    1847|1917 Epsom
    1952|XXXX Guildford
    THEN
    XXXX|2013 Guildford
    2026|xxxx North Camp
    OR
    XXXX|2002 Guildford
    2040|2040 London Waterloo
    2133|2200 Kings Cross
    0039|0201 York
    0334|XXXX Manchester Picc 
    Plan for Thursday:
    Code:
     Arr|Dep
    xxxx|0836 Buxton
    0932|0942 Manchester Piccadilly
    1036|1049 Leeds
    1329|1337 Carlisle
    1455|xxxx Newcastle
    xxxx|1550 Sunderland
    1640|1655 Thornaby
    1924|xxx Manchester Piccadilly
    Plan for Friday:
    Code:
    Tues/Weds/Thurs
    
    		Arr	Dep
    Buxton			0704
    Man Picc	0800	0816
    Llandudno Jn	1017	1033
    Blaenau ffest	1130	1155
    Minffordd	1255	1400
    Machynlleth	1548	1602
    Shrewsbury	1721	1754
    Stockport	1853	1947
    Buxton		2036
    
    Reverse
    
     Arr|Dep	
    xxxx 0634 Buxton
    0719 0733 Stockport
    0841 0848 Wolverhampton
    1042 1100 Machynlleth
    1244 	   Porthmadog
    -- SHORT WALK --
         1330 Porthmadog (WHR)
    ???? 1355 Traeth Mawr
    1430	   Porthmadog (WHR)
    -- WALK ACROSS TOWN --
         1600 Porthmadog Harbour
    1720 1754 Blaenau Ffestiniog
    1851 1856 Llandudno Jn
    2051 2143 Manchester Oxford Rd
         2246 Buxton
    
    OR
         1754 Blaenau Ffestiniog
    1851 1927 Llandudno Jn
    2030 0150 Holyhead
    0508	  Birmingham New St (With more options from there)
    Plan for Saturday:
    Arr|Dep
    Code:
    xxxx|0634 Buxton
    0719|0737 Stockport
    0844|0905 Shrewsbury
    1230|1321 Llanelli
    1451|1510 Milford Haven	
    1725|1749 Bridgend
    1817|1820 Maesteg
    1842|1900 Bridgend
    2056|2134 Reading
    2203|xxxx North Camp
    Plan for Sunday:
    Code:
     Arr|Dep
    XXXX 0806 North Camp
    0834 0843 Reading
    1105 1112 Exeter St Davids
    1150 1220 Okehampton
    1230 1250 Meldon
    1300 1405 Okehampton
    1442 1525 Exeter St Davids
    1553 1710 Exmouth
    1906 1910 Barnstable
    2020	  Exeter St Davids
    
    -- More coverage Maybe --
         0434 Exeter St Davids
    0858 	  Penzance
    -- Get cornwall coverage --
    No plan for Monday yet. Any advice on how to get as much cornwall as possible?

    And still no plan for Tuesday. Stuff that would be nice to do in the basic area would be...Castle Cary to Weymouth. The Lymington Branch. Fareham to Romsey via Totton and Eastleigh. Through Westbury to Bristol. Severn Beach. Both lines to Chippenham. Gloucester to Swindon and through to Didcot Parkway.
    That probably won't fit in a day, but thats just some ideas anyway.

    Thanks in advance
     
  23. yorkie

    yorkie Forum Staff Staff Member Administrator

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    She can use a priv all-line rover (or a priv standard open single/return) in seated accomodation.

    If boxes are being used for free travel, then a berth must be purchased (£36 to share, £49 solo on Cal Sleeper)
     
  24. paul1609

    paul1609 Established Member

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    Or LUL or about 6 preserved railway companies employees. Surprisingly many recently employed Network Rail employees receive almost nothing in the form of discounts when part time new enteries to the preserved railways still get 75% discount on all national rail fares!
     
  25. Techniquest

    Techniquest Veteran Member

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    Just a thought, but if you wanted to do Weymouth, you might want to do it on the 0834 BRI - WEY and 1747 WEY - BRI, as these would be 67-hauled services. Better than a unit...Anyone who tells you 67s are boring, clagless machines knows jack squat...67006 last week was quite the clagger and noise-maker!
     
  26. Muttley

    Muttley Member

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    NR aren`t entitled to a priv card unless they joined up before it all went private. All the new boys(and girls) don`t get any discount.


    The S&C... 8 mins in Carlisle could be quite tight. Theres always a load of TSRs on and it really upsets those long freight boys.
    But then again,in a week of travelling you can`t plan everything. Maybe have a back up plan just in case-up to Glasgow,across to E`boro then down the ECML.

    Have a good week,travel broadens the horizons.
     
  27. W14Fishbourne

    W14Fishbourne Member

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    Sorry, but you're wrong there: see Staff Travel Restrictions Summer 2007 (attached below). The facilities barred for staff travel are A and E as follows:

    Note A says: All First Class National Rail free and privilege travel facilities (including privilege season tickets).

    Note E says: All Standard National Rail free and privilege travel facilities (including privilege season tickets).

    (My emphasis)

    So that's quite clear - no free travel, no priv rate travel in Scotrail Sleeper seated accommodation.
     

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  28. W14Fishbourne

    W14Fishbourne Member

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    Yes if you work for Network Rail because Network Rail has to pay the TOCs for the facility.

    No if you work for a TOC. For TOCs there is no tax to pay because (a) the TOCs don't have to pay anyone for it - it's a reciprocal arrangement) and (b) it doesn't cost the TOC anything to give their staff the facility - the train's running anyway and you're just taking up a spare seat.*

    Retired staff don't have a tax liability because it's not a perk of their employment - they're no longer employed.

    *This is why there are there are restrictions on staff travel to ensure that it doesn't cost the TOC anything: (a) why staff using First Class have to give up their seats if a fare-paying First Class customer is standing, otherwise the TOC has to repay the customer the difference between First and Standard class and (b) why some trains are barred because otherwise the TOC might have to add extra stock to the train.
     
  29. Guinness

    Guinness Established Member

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    I've worked on a Preserved Railway for over a couple of years now and I've never heard of any discounts we get on NR? :?
     
  30. Mojo

    Mojo Forum Staff Staff Member Administrator

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    We get an annual free ticket which looks like: -
    [​IMG]
    When we placed a berth reservation on the Fort William sleeper in 2005 (1st class), it showed up on the slips as being free. Was this correct?
     
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