It is with regret that these restrictions have to be imposed, but there are way s around these. The Birmingham new st issue, who is going to know where you've come from? as long as you dont board one of the 4 toc's before 1000 you OK Travel in/out KX can use FCC and change at Peterborough, Euston is the worst one as Virgin trains dont stop at many interchange points with London Midland. Then of course theres NRCoC condition 19[c] comes into play. Or all us ALR ticket users can aviod the restrictions altogether by use routes that aren't affected, although I am against any restrictions at all. I do hope that the phrase unresticted ticket will be removed and not used. Also if you have an ALR First Class no chance of Breakfast from the London end? Iwould encourage everyone to write to the TOCs concerned and ATOC also there MP and P. Hammond asap
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All Line Rover [ALR] restrictions from 2 January 2011
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Following a FOI request made by an interested party, there are details regarding communication between EC, ATOC and other TOCs here:
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/all_line_rail_rover_restrictions#incoming-139554
Notes of interest;
- fGW was to be included
- An increased price fully permitted rover was considered, as well as price increases in line with inflation
- One TOC wants it fully abolished
- David Mapp was primarily responsible for the changes
- And yes, Adonis was responsible for the May changes being capped!
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/all_line_rail_rover_restrictions#incoming-139554
Notes of interest;
- fGW was to be included
- An increased price fully permitted rover was considered, as well as price increases in line with inflation
- One TOC wants it fully abolished
- David Mapp was primarily responsible for the changes
- And yes, Adonis was responsible for the May changes being capped!
I knew it - they'll turn the current ALR into a 'discounted' one (obviously at the original price, so no discount) and introduce a new 'super' ALR that they can price at any level they want - as that won't be price capped or protected in any way.
Then they'll start adding new restrictions as time goes on, like they did when they made anyone living fairly close to London have little reason to have a Network Railcard thanks to the £13 minimum!
Then they'll start adding new restrictions as time goes on, like they did when they made anyone living fairly close to London have little reason to have a Network Railcard thanks to the £13 minimum!
Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
Did you spot also that SET wanted it restricted as well, and were also trying to get Advances barred from being routed via HS1?
I hate the fact that HS1 can be charged at a premium. Yes, it's a new railway. Yes, it's built to a higher spec (but wouldn't ANY new line?) and, yes, trains can do 140mph on them instead of 125mph - even though many other trains can also do 140mph but simply aren't able to.
However, when SET run trains it's just a normal railway, using rolling stock that isn't anything special. These trains probably won't age well and there's nothing amazing about them anyway. The nicest part is that they're never crush loaded, except for extreme situations where the 'classic' line fails and they let people use HS1 for free.
I'm glad that FCC doesn't start to charge extra to go into King's Cross instead of having to take a slow train into Moorgate - and such a premium makes me fearful of how HS2 will be priced.
If every HS1 train was an extra service, maybe I'd buy it. But when some services were cut into the original stations then it's a bit much. It's even worse when they're allowed to keep hiking up the fees more than anyone else too.
Still, I feel for those in Essex and Kent who were told the Dartford crossing would become free... as promised.
Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised to see HS1 (and newer lines) excluded from the ALR as they could probably argue they didn't exist at privatisation or something.
However, when SET run trains it's just a normal railway, using rolling stock that isn't anything special. These trains probably won't age well and there's nothing amazing about them anyway. The nicest part is that they're never crush loaded, except for extreme situations where the 'classic' line fails and they let people use HS1 for free.
I'm glad that FCC doesn't start to charge extra to go into King's Cross instead of having to take a slow train into Moorgate - and such a premium makes me fearful of how HS2 will be priced.
If every HS1 train was an extra service, maybe I'd buy it. But when some services were cut into the original stations then it's a bit much. It's even worse when they're allowed to keep hiking up the fees more than anyone else too.
Still, I feel for those in Essex and Kent who were told the Dartford crossing would become free... as promised.
Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised to see HS1 (and newer lines) excluded from the ALR as they could probably argue they didn't exist at privatisation or something.
Chapeltom
Established Member
Its so sad the railway industry want to crush the leisure travel market and instead place restrictions on a product that is the ultimate tool for travelling over sways of the network in a one week or two.
I'll probably do a one week ALR in July and mainly cover the Welsh and Scottish network before the prices all go up. After all, these two areas are the best in the country to travel in (I mean scenery)
I'll probably do a one week ALR in July and mainly cover the Welsh and Scottish network before the prices all go up. After all, these two areas are the best in the country to travel in (I mean scenery)
Yes, but I am unsure David Map was primarily responsible? He may simply have been given the job of organising it.
I think there's no doubt he approves of the changes though, after all he does think that people should not buy Off Peak (formerly Saver) tickets and should buy CDs or go to the theatre instead!
ATOC claim in that document the existing ALR is not protected. Can anyone confirm? It was a major oversight at the time of privatisation if so.
It didn't say that SET wanted it restricted, just that they might. And yes the thing about Advance fares was interesting. Now we have evidence of SET's anti-customer antics and poor attitude, something we have suspected for some time.
Indeed. And now we know that SET are, themselves, hostile toward passengers and have an anti-passenger attitude. It's not just the DfT to blame.
I am opposed to HS2 if they are going to price it in a similar way to HS1, especially if they decimate the fast services on classic lines in a similar way.
Does that make financial sense? A Scottish Rover covers Scotland and the price per day is much lower. There are Rovers in Wales too. You could spend a whole day at least doing lines covered on a Valley Lines Day Ranger (about a fiver). An ALR would be a waste IMO.
BTW, ATOC will be reading this topic, you can be sure of that!
Presumably the US and Canadian ones are cheaper as a result? That won't happen here if it's down to the fact they're worried about people using ALRs as alternative to ordinary tickets. They probably want to use their ALR for very few journeys anyway.
Lampshade
Established Member
I would imagine it's either Virgin or East Coast, an ALR works out cheaper than a 7 day season or a week of SORs from London to somewhere like Preston/Lancaster/Darlington.
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If it was East Coast then I'd guess that the correspondance would back that up, therefore I doubt it is them. We'll not find out unless they make it public though, because only East Coast (as DOR) are subject to the FOI Act.
It would only really make sense for it to be Virgin (who want it abolished). I can't see any commercial reason why EMT would want that. It doesn't sound like EC do. It wouldn't make sense for it to be XC.
Virgin have ridiculously high prices to places that people may commute from e.g. Manchester, where they may get the ALR.
Virgin have ridiculously high prices to places that people may commute from e.g. Manchester, where they may get the ALR.
nedchester
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So has anyone tried using an ALR into say London and combining it with a single from a station just outside London to London.
e.g. Leeds to Kings Cross with a single Finsbury Park to London?! (should be valid??!!)
e.g. Leeds to Kings Cross with a single Finsbury Park to London?! (should be valid??!!)
I'd be more interested to hear of anyone travelling out of London, especially Euston. What chance Virgin barrier staff allowing you to board with a NRCoC 19(c) allowed split? Can see some potential problems there.
All other London Termini have automatic barriers, with Kings Cross's going live soon. An automatic barrier is much more likely to allow you entry, unless they are going to be programmed to reject Anytime Singles to/from the first station beyond the terminus.
All other London Termini have automatic barriers, with Kings Cross's going live soon. An automatic barrier is much more likely to allow you entry, unless they are going to be programmed to reject Anytime Singles to/from the first station beyond the terminus.
So has anyone tried using an ALR into say London and combining it with a single from a station just outside London to London.
e.g. Leeds to Kings Cross with a single Finsbury Park to London?! (should be valid??!!)
That is entirely valid, but as I believe was mentioned up the thread, doing things like this (and especially discussing them in public) is liable to be a fast-track to a blanket ban on using ALRs at peak time, or the introduction of a higher-priced "anytime ALR" instead.
nedchester
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I think it was. Don't like the idea of the travelling public being threatened in this way......
Butts
Veteran Member
Flying Snail
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They are available to the residents of most countries including Ireland.
http://www.britrail.com
If the question you are saking is can you pop over to Dublin, buy a Britrail pass no questions asked and pop back then the answer is probably not.
The only places that I know of where they could be bought on the spot are both closed. Specifically the Visit Britain tourist office where they had the facility to print the passes and the Irish Rail travel centre who in recent years only sold vouchers for consecutive passes which could be exchanged at (some?) National Rail ticket offices for passes printed on standard ticket stock.
Butts
Veteran Member
Shrub Hill
Member
if the reason they introduced the restrictions was to stop people using them as cheaper alternatives why did they not just raise the cost of an all line rover? surely introducing a weird set of ad hoc restrictions is the standard british method of complicating a simple solution!
Death
Established Member
Sounds like my one and only ALR was well timed, even if I did lose four days of that to illness! (And SWT still havn't issued my pro-rata refund, stingy gets! 
)
AToC are only going to shoot themselves in the foot with this kind of ever increasing bumping up of the restrictions though...After all; I was planning another ALR for around September/October this year, but they've just denied themselves my money and no doubt many other people's besides...
That said, I would personally love to see the Death of AToC...Preferably one that involves the halls of their offices running chest-deep in their own worthless, weak, free-flowing Blood... :mad:
)AToC are only going to shoot themselves in the foot with this kind of ever increasing bumping up of the restrictions though...After all; I was planning another ALR for around September/October this year, but they've just denied themselves my money and no doubt many other people's besides...
That said, I would personally love to see the Death of AToC...Preferably one that involves the halls of their offices running chest-deep in their own worthless, weak, free-flowing Blood... :mad:
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