Alliance Blackpool service to be run by Grand Central and start in 2021

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hexagon789

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I recall seeing 90's top & tailing initially 7 Mk4's somewhere.
Remember seeing 7 Mk4s mentioned, I was more thinking of the coach make-up - number of Firsts etc.

Well using both 90s at the same time would help the acceleration greatly I think?
Top and tail would mean the rear loco isn't powering.

Is that even allowed , 2 90s on the power?
Definitely.

Ah i was thinking one at the front and one at the back.
Still the same power demand from the overhead
 

hexagon789

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Thanks for the clarification. Now you mention push-pull, they may be push-pull. The best thing to go on from my memory is there'll be a 90 at each end supposedly.
I would love them to use both 90s to power a set, though they would need two TOEs if they don't use a DVT.

At a maximum 15,720hp combined though, i think they would really shift!
 

43096

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Thanks for the clarification. Now you mention push-pull, they may be push-pull. The best thing to go on from my memory is there'll be a 90 at each end supposedly.
Not seen this anywhere else, and all the signs point to 90 + Mark 4s + DVT. Why would it be anything else?

It should also be pointed out that using two Class 90s would need some motors to be isolated, as happens on the intermodals.
 

xotGD

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Without a DVT there would be nowhere for the guard. Or bikes.

Unless they stick a Mark 1 BG on the end...
 

TimboM

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It will be: 1x DB 90 + Mk4s + Mk4 DVT

90s initially will be 90020 / 021* / 026* / 029 / 039 - all repainted in Grand Central black/orange livery.

*being reinstated from store at Crewe ETD. 90026 is mechanically pretty much there and heading to Toton on Wed for paint.

Not sure of exact rake length, but at least five and shorted than the nine LNER used on the ECML.

The rake at Wembley is one for the service and is currently there for training etc. 86401 was providing ETH for it the other day - although that's not going to be involved in hauling the services before anyone gets excited.

DVTs are a no brainer really - otherwise there'd be the need for draw-back locos and/or run arounds at each end. 90s have also regularly worked with the Mk4s + DVTs in push-pull mode for many years on the ECML, so tried and tested.
 

LOL The Irony

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It will be: 1x DB 90 + Mk4s + Mk4 DVT

90s initially will be 90020 / 021* / 026* / 029 / 039 - all repainted in Grand Central black/orange livery.

*being reinstated from store at Crewe ETD. 90026 is mechanically pretty much there and heading to Toton on Wed for paint.

Not sure of exact rake length, but at least five and shorted than the nine LNER used on the ECML.

The rake at Wembley is one for the service and is currently there for training etc. 86401 was providing ETH for it the other day - although that's not going to be involved in hauling the services before anyone gets excited.
Thank you.
 

ainsworth74

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I wonder if someone has got confused with the crackpot Paddington - Cardiff service where it has been speculated they might use two 91s to match the performance of an IET?
 

hexagon789

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It will be: 1x DB 90 + Mk4s + Mk4 DVT

90s initially will be 90020 / 021* / 026* / 029 / 039 - all repainted in Grand Central black/orange livery.

*being reinstated from store at Crewe ETD. 90026 is mechanically pretty much there and heading to Toton on Wed for paint.

Not sure of exact rake length, but at least five and shorted than the nine LNER used on the ECML.

The rake at Wembley is one for the service and is currently there for training etc. 86401 was providing ETH for it the other day - although that's not going to be involved in hauling the services before anyone gets excited.

DVTs are a no brainer really - otherwise there'd be the need for draw-back locos and/or run arounds at each end. 90s have also regularly worked with the Mk4s + DVTs in push-pull mode for many years on the ECML, so tried and tested.
Thank you for the details.
 

TimboM

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Quite possible, but if two 90s need motors isolated, won't 91s as well?
From what I understand, 90s don't need to have motors isolated - it was something FL (and possibly DB, but not sure about that) did with their 90s when running in pairs on intermodals to a) reduce the 'electricity bill' from NR and b) decrease wear and tear [as the isolated motor would be rotated, thus each one only being used 75% in theory].

However, I'm pretty sure this isn't the practice anymore and the FL 90 pairs now run with all four traction motors in play (assuming all are working, which isn't always the case!)

Anyway, all a bit irrelevant as the Blackpool service will be one DB 90 (with 4x Traction Motors all being well).
 

hexagon789

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From what I understand, 90s don't need to have motors isolated - it was something FL (and possibly DB, but not sure about that) did with their 90s when running in pairs on intermodals to a) reduce the 'electricity bill' from NR and b) decrease wear and tear [as the isolated motor would be rotated, thus each one only being used 75% in theory].

However, I'm pretty sure this isn't the practice anymore and the FL 90 pairs now run with all four traction motors in play (assuming all are working, which isn't always the case!)

Anyway, all a bit irrelevant as the Blackpool service will be one DB 90 (with 4x Traction Motors all being well).
So similar performance to when they ran WCML expresses really.
 

GRALISTAIR

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I have a genuine question. I am a believer in HS2 so support the capacity argument. I keep hearing the southern end of the WCML is at capacity so how are these extra Alliance services going to squeeze in or am I being way too simplistic?
 

86247

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Will a Lancashire day ranger be valid on them as I don't think it will be, seeing that day rangers aren't allowed on other grand central services.
 

cactustwirly

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Will a Lancashire day ranger be valid on them as I don't think it will be, seeing that day rangers aren't allowed on other grand central services.
Yeah it will, as long as it's within the area, unless there's a specific restriction on the ticket.
 

86247

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The only day ranger that I can find which can be used on grand central is a west Yorkshire day saver.I thought a South pennines would be valid but it's not.
 

Mitchell Hurd

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Well, if my next trip to Blackpool North (first trip up there since September 2014) is with Grand Central then arriving on a Class 90-hauled Mark 4 will be the biggest most spacious train I've arrived on.

I'd love it if the 90-hauled Mark 4's were called InterCity 175's or 110's - 175's for 175kph and 110 for 110mph as I understand these are restricted to 110mph operation.

I wonder if the front coach behind the Class 90 will be the Quiet Coach - either way I hope there's an option, when booking online, to select the coach by the Class 90. One advantage of this is you're near the station entrance which is really useful if having heavy luggage!

I'll be tempted to, from Oxford, to go via Milton Keynes on the X5 to MK Central rail station then GC service to Blackpool North from there. The 12:10 will suit me as if cancelled there's the 13:10 :)!
 
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