Alliance Blackpool service to be run by Grand Central and start in 2021

[700007]

A short-term lease of ex-GWR HSTs would seem the obvious way to go, as long as PRM issues can somehow be sidestepped. Although there are the DRS Mk2 sets just released from the Cumbrian Coast .

Or LNER hire those HSTs and allow them to release the necessary amount of 91s to GNWR? GNWR or Hitachi covering the costs of hiring those extra HSTs?

 

[ChiefPlanner]

A short-term lease of ex-GWR HSTs would seem the obvious way to go, as long as PRM issues can somehow be sidestepped. Although there are the DRS Mk2 sets just released from the Cumbrian Coast .

Apart form the minor issue that these cascaded 125 sets would need to be maintained and serviced somewhere ....Plymouth perhaps ? (no facilties at Old Oak Common anymore , or even at an extreme push Landore ?) .....

 

[unlevel42]

Could the HSTs be serviced at Leeds?
Are routes via Manchester and Sheffield still allowed?
Any other permitted Preston direct to Leeds routes for HSTs?
To/from Leeds there are already some ridiculous early/late revenue services for MML and LNER.
Any potential for overnight routes via Manchester airport

 

[Modron]

The problem is that there are only so many trains you can fit between Preston and Blackpool North at any one time - the route is double track, and with the through York-Blackpool North trains coming back the line will only be more busy.

There have been proposals for the Blackpool South line to be converted, at least partially, into a Tramline that would then join up with the existing Tram Network (possibly at Talbot Road), so this might have some bearing on the services in the future.

 

[Modron]

Apart form the minor issue that these cascaded 125 sets would need to be maintained and serviced somewhere ....Plymouth perhaps ? (no facilties at Old Oak Common anymore , or even at an extreme push Landore ?) .....

I believe that Landore is going soon, if not already being closed down. Maliphant Sidings is now the main facility in Swansea.

 

[takno]

The problem is that there are only so many trains you can fit between Preston and Blackpool North at any one time - the route is double track, and with the through York-Blackpool North trains coming back the line will only be more busy.

There have been proposals for the Blackpool South line to be converted, at least partially, into a Tramline that would then join up with the existing Tram Network (possibly at Talbot Road), so this might have some bearing on the services in the future.

I would have thought you could get 10-15 trains an hour each way without too much trouble now it's been resignalled. Why would you want more than that?

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I believe that Landore is going soon, if not already being closed down. Maliphant Sidings is now the main facility in Swansea.

Was being a little flippant - Landore has now closed , but used for storage.

 

[43096]

Apart form the minor issue that these cascaded 125 sets would need to be maintained and serviced somewhere ....Plymouth perhaps ? (no facilties at Old Oak Common anymore , or even at an extreme push Landore ?) .....

Arriva Traincare at Crewe. There have been HST power cars there before and they see Mark 3s daily.

What we don’t know is if GNWR have a signed lease and start date for the Mark 4s. If they do, then they could enforce the start date and it would be LNER’s (and Hitachi’s) problem to cover the shortfall.

 

[AMD]

The problem is that there are only so many trains you can fit between Preston and Blackpool North at any one time - the route is double track, and with the through York-Blackpool North trains coming back the line will only be more busy.

There have been proposals for the Blackpool South line to be converted, at least partially, into a Tramline that would then join up with the existing Tram Network (possibly at Talbot Road), so this might have some bearing on the services in the future.

Route capacity is considerably higher than what is currently being run; at present up to 6 trains per hour come out of Preston normally, but with four aspect signalling and current spacing capacity is around 10 to 12 trains per hour.
The York slot will take over the service that is just run as BPN to PRE which only stops at PFY - this was a 'temporary' fix to the timetable to reduce the number of diesel units required to run the BPN/PRE to LDS/YRK corridor.

 

[driver_m]

Arriva Traincare at Crewe. There have been HST power cars there before and they see Mark 3s daily.

What we don’t know is if GNWR have a signed lease and start date for the Mark 4s. If they do, then they could enforce the start date and it would be LNER’s (and Hitachi’s) problem to cover the shortfall.

Not much room on LNWR though, (unless they're kicking someone out) If no one leaves, there's very little wiggle room on there.

 

[43096]

Not much room on LNWR though, (unless they're kicking someone out) If no one leaves, there's very little wiggle room on there.

Isn’t Crewe the proposed base for the GNWR Mark 4 sets, so presumably there is capacity.

 

[driver_m]

There's room outside if they do some reconfiguring of the Sidings, but I'd imagine it will be expensive.
The shed nearest the mainline is full of 350s as it is the only wired shed, the 4 roads behind usually have our 221s on and the TFW 67s and mk3s. The EMT stuff usually sits out at the back somewhere, and the TPE stuff goes anywhere. There's currently LNR 319s split up there and plenty of other stuff out of sight being altered. Someone must be leaving?

 

[43096]

There's room outside if they do some reconfiguring of the Sidings, but I'd imagine it will be expensive.
The shed nearest the mainline is full of 350s as it is the only wired shed, the 4 roads behind usually have our 221s on and the TFW 67s and mk3s. The EMT stuff usually sits out at the back somewhere, and the TPE stuff goes anywhere. There's currently LNR 319s split up there and plenty of other stuff out of sight being altered. Someone must be leaving?

TPE Mark 3s will go this year for a start.

 

[Bald Rick]

Route capacity is considerably higher than what is currently being run; at present up to 6 trains per hour come out of Preston normally, but with four aspect signalling and current spacing capacity is around 10 to 12 trains per hour.
The York slot will take over the service that is just run as BPN to PRE which only stops at PFY - this was a 'temporary' fix to the timetable to reduce the number of diesel units required to run the BPN/PRE to LDS/YRK corridor.

There might be capacity between Blackpool and Preston for 10-12 trains per hour, but is there capacity for them at Preston?

 

[PR1Berske]

There might be capacity between Blackpool and Preston for 10-12 trains per hour, but is there capacity for them at Preston?

Platform 7, thine time has come....

 

[furnessvale]

Platform 7, thine time has come....

.......and platform 0 (the old number 2)

 

[driver_m]

TPE Mark 3s will go this year for a start.

They're usually dumped in one of the shunts with various wagons. There's plenty of land though, it's just that some cash needs spending in the place .

 

[Ianno87]

Platform 7, thine time has come....

Not very helpful for coming from Blackpool. Nor when the trains get to Euxton Jn.

 

[158820]

There's room outside if they do some reconfiguring of the Sidings, but I'd imagine it will be expensive.
The shed nearest the mainline is full of 350s as it is the only wired shed, the 4 roads behind usually have our 221s on and the TFW 67s and mk3s. The EMT stuff usually sits out at the back somewhere, and the TPE stuff goes anywhere. There's currently LNR 319s split up there and plenty of other stuff out of sight being altered. Someone must be leaving?

Tfw loco hauled will be finishing also when the mark4 arrive they will all be dealt with at Canton

 

[paddyb6]

Just to Clarify - I've got a few questions regarding GNWR services?
1. Are we still expecting September or even December this year for a start date?
2. Will it be 91s + Mk4s?
3. Is it still actually going to be happening? (XD)

Thanks for any info

 

[BantamMenace]

Do we know their paths as well? I’m particularly interested in the morning London bound departures from Nuneaton.

 

[swt_passenger]

Do we know their paths as well? I’m particularly interested in the morning London bound departures from Nuneaton.

The track access application timetables are included in post #96.

 

[pt_mad]

Out of interest how do class 90s compare at pulling coaches Vs 91s? Is there any possibility whatsoever they could have looked to hire in 4 90s and a rake of coaches so they can start their operation? Or would that need a whole new application to the ORR?

 

[Modron]

Platform 7, thine time has come....

Agree with this, especially if Blackpool brings back more of the 'Summer Specials' if people choose to holiday at home instead in the future.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Out of interest how do class 90s compare at pulling coaches Vs 91s? Is there any possibility whatsoever they could have looked to hire in 4 90s and a rake of coaches so they can start their operation? Or would that need a whole new application to the ORR?

Well they were built for WCML - so at least they are cleared Euston - Fylde Jct. Class 91s will need clearance testing or other for the entire route I assume.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Out of interest how do class 90s compare at pulling coaches Vs 91s? Is there any possibility whatsoever they could have looked to hire in 4 90s and a rake of coaches so they can start their operation? Or would that need a whole new application to the ORR?

Plenty of 90s available, and they are probably better suited for 110mph working than the 91s.
They regularly substitute for 91s on King's Cross-Leeds services if they are short of 91s.
The bigger problem is finding PRM-compliant rolling stock.
I imagine they could get the TPE ex-Pretendolino sets, or some other retired Mk3s, but it wouldn't solve the PRM problem.

 

[pt_mad]

Plenty of 90s available, and they are probably better suited for 110mph working than the 91s.
They regularly substitute for 91s on King's Cross-Leeds services if they are short of 91s.
The bigger problem is finding PRM-compliant rolling stock.
I imagine they could get the TPE ex-Pretendolino sets, or some other retired Mk3s, but it wouldn't solve the PRM problem.

Hadn't thought of the PRM requirements.

I'm guessing the ex GWR coaches fail that then? When do the regs change, next year or this year?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Hadn't thought of the PRM requirements.

I'm guessing the ex GWR coaches fail that then? When do the regs change, next year or this year?

End of this year.

 

[pt_mad]

End of this year.

What will the existing operators using any unmodified HSTs at the end of the year do? Or will there be a last minute extension?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

What will the existing operators using any unmodified HSTs at the end of the year do? Or will there be a last minute extension?

Sorry to bring it in, but it's like Brexit - nobody really knows.