Alphabetical displays in theatre route indicators.

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djpontrack

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Heading South from Platform 5 at Lancaster a “L” is often seen to advise the driver he is going via the Loop.
 
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Llama

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Approaching Crewe from the north on the US/UF there are route indicators (theatre boxes) that can show a representation of a junction indicator as well as alphanumeric indications.
 

111-111-1

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One that I see fairly regularly at Eastleigh is “XS“ which means a train is routed up the down slow on leaving the station towards Winchester. Combinations of letters introduce another layer of complexity.

An X prefix is generally to remind drivers that it is a wrong line move.
 

Sunset route

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Southbound out of Redhill:
Heading South - M - Main
Heading West - R - Reigate? Reading? or as earlier in the thread, Relief? (Not sure how that would work though)
Heading East - T - Tonbridge?

Have always wondered what they actually meant since I had to change at Redhill when I was at college

Down (T)onbridge line
Down (M)ain line
Down (R)eading line
 

Llama

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I'd say such a signalled move is more of a bi-directional move, especially with main aspect signals.
 

ComUtoR

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I'd say such a signalled move is more of a bi-directional move, especially with main aspect signals.

We have movements that are considered to be 'wrong direction' and a few that have been briefed as 'down the up line'. I think there was a discussion fairly recently about the shortest section of bi-directional lines and if situations like this are actually considered to be 'bi-di' or not.

As long as its understandable to the person looking at it or setting the points for it I don't think it matters too much.
 

Lewlew

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Approaching Willesden Junction on the down from Kensal Green, WS21 will show an 'M' for mainline (platform 3) or 'B' for bay (platform 2).

Bakerloo line drivers are told to never accept a 'B' as tube trains won't fit in the bay platform. But there is 4th rail there just in case there is an oopsie
 

30907

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Approaching Crewe from the north on the US/UF there are route indicators (theatre boxes) that can show a representation of a junction indicator as well as alphanumeric indications.
Interesting. ISTR the line limit is 80 through Crewe, what do they show for an unrestriced route? (UF to UF etc...)
 

Class315

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Protecting Gordon Hill on the Down Hertford, K865, a three aspect signal with a theatre box is capable of displaying of X: Wrong direction move to the Limit of shunt just beyond Platform 2. K865 is also capable of displaying a U which allows a route into the Bay (Platform 1).
 

Tomnick

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Protecting Gordon Hill on the Down Hertford, K865, a three aspect signal with a theatre box is capable of displaying of X: Wrong direction move to the Limit of shunt just beyond Platform 2. K865 is also capable of displaying a U which allows a route into the Bay (Platform 1).
Can you get a main aspect towards the limit of shunt indicator (assuming it’s not a fixed red main aspect), or is there a sub signal that works in conjunction with the same route indicator?
 

Dave W

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Protecting Gordon Hill on the Down Hertford, K865, a three aspect signal with a theatre box is capable of displaying of X: Wrong direction move to the Limit of shunt just beyond Platform 2. K865 is also capable of displaying a U which allows a route into the Bay (Platform 1).

The U in this case presumably a hangover from the days when there was a down side bay at GH too...?

Can you get a main aspect towards the limit of shunt indicator (assuming it’s not a fixed red main aspect), or is there a sub signal that works in conjunction with the same route indicator?

If it matters, I’ve been on a terminating passenger service into 2 - does this not require a main aspect indication? (To answer your question it isn’t a fixed red) - to be fair it was during major disruption so any port in a storm, I guess.
 

Class315

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Can you get a main aspect towards the limit of shunt indicator (assuming it’s not a fixed red main aspect), or is there a sub signal that works in conjunction with the same route indicator?

I should of clarified that the main aspect remains at danger & the associated position lights illuminate and the ‘X’ displays in the theatre box, which gives you permission up until the limit of shunt, but 717’s are currently prohibited to carry out the move into 2 and perform station duties if i recall correctly.
 

tomuk

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Shrewsbury - Crewe Junction - Down Main & Up & Down Platform (P4)

L(ondon Midland) - Crewe
W(estern - Chester
C(oton) - Cotton Hill Yard
S(iding) - Down Siding (Shrewsbury New Yard)
 

Taunton

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Edinburgh Waverley; W, X, Y and Z when departing west.
These were designated in the 1970s resignalling, which also had an unusual feature that when an inbound train was signalled into the station through the Mound tunnels at the west end of the station, independent indicators would also light up showing these letters at the tunnel mouth exits of these four lines into the station, as a warning to those on the track, as incoming trains could now suddenly appear on any of the four tracks.
 

_toommm_

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Leeds has A through F on its theatre boxes when routeing trains in and out of the West side of the station IIRC.
 

Llama

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Manchester Piccadilly throat area has in general terms indications for the kind of route, either E (east), F (fast) or S (slow). However if being sent 'facing road', eg along the down fast line in the up direction, there is a prefix to the E/F/S, so the indication would then be DF. In the other direction it would be say UF.

Most other areas I sign which are bidirectional give the full 'UF/DF/US/DS' etc indications regardless of direction of movement.

One advantage of the indications as they are at Piccadilly is that the prefix to an indication makes it more apparent to a driver that they are being sent facing road which allows the risk of reading across to other signals or anticipation based on common experience to be mitigated slightly.
 

MarkyT

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Manchester Piccadilly throat area has in general terms indications for the kind of route, either E (east), F (fast) or S (slow). However if being sent 'facing road', eg along the down fast line in the up direction, there is a prefix to the E/F/S, so the indication would then be DF. In the other direction it would be say UF.

Most other areas I sign which are bidirectional give the full 'UF/DF/US/DS' etc indications regardless of direction of movement.

One advantage of the indications as they are at Piccadilly is that the prefix to an indication makes it more apparent to a driver that they are being sent facing road which allows the risk of reading across to other signals or anticipation based on common experience to be mitigated slightly.
That's a good system. The extra letter alerts the driver of a routing that's probably fairly unusual that might then be queried if unexpected, so a clear understanding can be arrived at. I've seen the unusual letter 'X' employed for similar purposes.
 
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It might be a better question to ask which spercific TRIs give numbers. It would limit the amount of dross answers as TRIs usually give a letter rather than a number.
Its like asking what signals display a green aspect.
 

ComUtoR

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It might be a better question to ask which spercific TRIs give numbers. It would limit the amount of dross answers as TRIs usually give a letter rather than a number.
Its like asking what signals display a green aspect.


Platform 1, Platform 2, Platform 3.....
 

Horizon22

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It might be a better question to ask which spercific TRIs give numbers. It would limit the amount of dross answers as TRIs usually give a letter rather than a number.
Its like asking what signals display a green aspect.

Most terminals?
 

111-111-1

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Which Theatre Box can give the most letters? I cannot remember how many can be got at Latchmere Junction but it had lot.
 

MadMac

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Manchester Piccadilly throat area has in general terms indications for the kind of route, either E (east), F (fast) or S (slow). However if being sent 'facing road', eg along the down fast line in the up direction, there is a prefix to the E/F/S, so the indication would then be DF. In the other direction it would be say UF.

Most other areas I sign which are bidirectional give the full 'UF/DF/US/DS' etc indications regardless of direction of movement.

One advantage of the indications as they are at Piccadilly is that the prefix to an indication makes it more apparent to a driver that they are being sent facing road which allows the risk of reading across to other signals or anticipation based on common experience to be mitigated slightly.

Man Picc was high up the Railtrack "Top 20 SPADs" (Signals Passed At Danger) some years ago, and one of the things they did was to put signage on the approach signals indicating which line they applied to.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Interesting. ISTR the line limit is 80 through Crewe, what do they show for an unrestriced route? (UF to UF etc...)

From standing on the station, I think the through line signals at Crewe just show a main aspect (ie no theatre indication or feather).
Normally these days just for the hourly Glasgow fast and the odd Liverpool (maybe not at all with the restricted timetable, as everything stops at Crewe).
 

edwin_m

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Man Picc was high up the Railtrack "Top 20 SPADs" (Signals Passed At Danger) some years ago, and one of the things they did was to put signage on the approach signals indicating which line they applied to.
It's now standard on complex multi-track layouts to erect signs above each track giving the designation of the line (DF, DS, A, B, whatever). I assume the letters displayed on the route indicators are aligned to these.
 

Llama

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From standing on the station, I think the through line signals at Crewe just show a main aspect (ie no theatre indication or feather).
Normally these days just for the hourly Glasgow fast and the odd Liverpool (maybe not at all with the restricted timetable, as everything stops at Crewe).
CE144 and 146 signals are remote from the station on the approach from the North, they can't be seen from the station itself. Main aspect only is for the 'straight ahead' route from each signal, Up Fast and Up Slow (P5) respectively. The permissible speed through the station on the fast lines is indeed 80, and 60 on the slows, although there's a 20mph PSR at the south end of platform 5 where the US converges to the UF.
The speed of the crossovers after the signals with the 'junction indicators', after potentially receiving the flashing yellow aspects at the previous signals, is 60, a reduction of 20mph from UF-US, and no speed reduction from US-UF.
 

craigybagel

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The approach to Stockport in both directions is one of the more rare examples of letters rather then numbers denoting platforms. S for the slow lines through 1 and 4, F for the fast through 2 and 3, and most unusual of all is M for Main, which takes you through platform 0 (or the through road behind platform 4 in the other direction).
 

Llama

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Approaching Blackburn from the Preston/Bolton direction the signals before Blackburn Bolton Jn give a wide array of indications: "1" for platform 1, main aspect only for 2, "B" for 3 (bay), "T" for 4, "G" for the goods. There are also several subsidiary indications depending on the signal in question.
 
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