Alstom get EU approval to buy Bombardier and will soon own Derby...

Mikey C

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There's a separate thread in the international section, but this deserves to be in the main UK area as it has massive implications for Bombardier and Alstom's UK operations.


For start it means that Hitachi will be taking 100% ownership of their joint venture for HS2 trains. Is Alstom were to win this, would Derby potentially be involved in their manufacture instead?

So Derby since privatisation has gone from BREL - ABB - Adtranz - Bombardier - Alstom...
 
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py_megapixel

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I imagine if Bombardier is planning to exit the rolling stock industry entirely then Alstom will acquire the Aventra platform?

I wonder if things like the nameplates on yet to be delivered units are likely to be altered. Though unless there's a major delay the Aventra deliveries might we be finished by that point.
 

LOL The Irony

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For start it means that Hitachi will be taking 100% ownership of their joint venture for HS2 trains. Is Alstom were to win this, would Derby potentially be involved in their manufacture instead?
They just spent a lot of money building a facility in Runcorn, I don't see them upping sticks and moving everything to Derby. Derby will most likely be kept for non HS rolling stock or closed.
 

py_megapixel

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They just spent a lot of money building a facility in Runcorn, I don't see them upping sticks and moving everything to Derby. Derby will most likely be kept for non HS rolling stock or closed.
It would be sad to see Derby close, given the amount of heritage attached to a lot of what's been developed there.

I wonder if they might do the same as for Met-Cam's Washwood Heath - use it for a few important orders, then close it completely. Then maybe it could reopen as a museum/heritage centre though I doubt hatt would ever happen
 
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There's an article about this in today's Derby Telegraph.

According to that, the union Unite has been given assurances about an ongoing future for the Derby site, and Alstom have given the European Commission an undertaking that a joint bid between the Derby site and Hitachi for HS2 trains will still go ahead.
 

Mikey C

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I imagine if Bombardier is planning to exit the rolling stock industry entirely then Alstom will acquire the Aventra platform?

I wonder if things like the nameplates on yet to be delivered units are likely to be altered. Though unless there's a major delay the Aventra deliveries might we be finished by that point.
Bombardier HAVE exited the rolling stock industry, Alstom own the Aventra platform now
 

py_megapixel

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So it's Alstom Vs Alstom Derby + Hitachi Vs others? Alstom Vs Alstom seems a little odd.
No, if you read the article in post number 1 it says a requirement of approval by the EU was to give their stake in the HS2 bid to Hitachi.
 
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The Derby Telegraph claims to be quoting the European Commission, and states that Alstom has committed to a "series of measures" aimed at preserving Bombardier's joint bid with Hitachi for trains for HS2.

Presumably, the sale will also mean that Alstom will own the design rights in Mk 3s, Series 3 bogies, (both from the Sale of BREL Agreement) and B5000 bogies (from an agreement entered into between BR and RFS Special Rail Products).
 

TRAX

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The Derby Telegraph claims to be quoting the European Commission, and states that Alstom has committed to a "series of measures" aimed at preserving Bombardier's joint bid with Hitachi for trains for HS2.
Well that doesn’t match any of the official press releases...
 

squizzler

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It seems bad timing for Bombardier to finally divest their train business (I understand to concentrate on planes) when aviation is imploding. From what I read the rail industry has a bright future with British and EU governments especially determined that it play a bigger role in the “new normal”, not sure that same can be said about air travel.
 

Energy

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It seems bad timing for Bombardier to finally divest their train business (I understand to concentrate on planes) when aviation is imploding. From what I read the rail industry has a bright future with British and EU governments especially determined that it play a bigger role in the “new normal”, not sure that same can be said about air travel.
Bombardier have been wanting to split up for a while to focus on private jets, they had large debts but I'm surprised they didn't keep their rail division which looks to make money for them.
 

Goldfish62

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The title of this thread isn't quite accurate given that Alstom don't expect to complete the acquisition until next year.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Bombardier HAVE exited the rolling stock industry, Alstom own the Aventra platform now
Not yet.
The deal will be transacted next Spring, once all the approvals and due diligence is complete.
Bombardier is independent till then.

This is Alstom's own press release on the deal:

  • A transfer of Bombardier Transportation’s contribution to the V300 ZEFIRO very high-speed train and an offer of IP licence to Hitachi for the train co-developed by Hitachi and Bombardier Transportation for use in future very high-speed tenders in the UK
  • The divestment of the Alstom Coradia Polyvalent and the Reichshoffen production site in France
  • The divestment of the Bombardier TALENT 3 platform and dedicated production facilities located within the Hennigsdorf site in Germany
  • Providing access to certain interfaces and products for some of Bombardier Transportation’s Signalling On-Board Units and Train Control Management Systems (TCMS)

Various components of Bombardier are now therefore "for sale", with the HS2 bid on offer to Hitachi.
Others can bid for the Polyvalent and Talent assets.
 

py_megapixel

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Bombardier HAVE exited the rolling stock industry, Alstom own the Aventra platform now
Actually, this is incorrect
Reading the article that you have cited, it says that the acquisition isn't intended to be completed until the first half of 2021
 

TRAX

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Bombardier have been wanting to split up for a while to focus on private jets, they had large debts but I'm surprised they didn't keep their rail division which looks to make money for them.
The entire Bombardier business is basically losing money, and even some of their aeronautical business has been sold (to Airbus and Mitsubishi).

What happens if nobody bids for them?
They will go to Alstom I expect, or be spun off separately.
But clearly Alstom won't be taking on the Bombardier high speed UK interest, as they already have their own HS2 bid.
I think if nobody bids for them, they’ll be discontinued. The Polyvalent range depends on the Reichshoffen factory, and this HAS to be sold. If no manufacturer takes it, the factory shall, I believe, be sold on the real estate market. But I think there will be takers, there are three companies that have already bid.

About the HS2 bid, they can’t take the Bombardier bid anyway, one or the four conditions for the takeover was for Hitachi to take the entire bid, and I suspect Hitachi will take over the entire Zefiro platform - and probably bin it as they’d prefer their own AT300 platform.
 

TRAX

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Rather than the Canadian company that owns it now and has downgraded what was a full manufacturing site to little more than an assembly platform?
And that isn’t capable of churning out decent and functioning trains even years after launching the new platform ?
 

Mikey C

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The entire Bombardier business is basically losing money, and even some of their aeronautical business has been sold (to Airbus and Mitsubishi).
Bombardier as an business has been a disaster zone really, and are rapidly shrinking. From a UK point of view, they've also sold their Belfast aerostructures business (ex Shorts)
 

Energy

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The entire Bombardier business is basically losing money, and even some of their aeronautical business has been sold (to Airbus and Mitsubishi).
I knew Bombardier the parent company was losing money but I thought their train division was making money
 

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