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Alstom ONIX traction system

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Sad Sprinter

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I've always wondered where the ONIX traction system used in the Junipers and 1995 Northern Line stock was designed. Is it a British GEC design or from France? I would have thought it was a French system seeing the last traction equipment (as far as I know) designed in the UK was for the Networkers.
 
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SansHache

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The Onix Traction systems on the 1995 Northern Line Tube Stock, Class 458 and Class 334 Juniper EMUs and the Class 390 Pendolinos are UK designs that make use of component parts manufactured at Alstom sites either in the UK or France.
All make use of variants of the Agate Traction control electronics from the factory in Villeurbanne (Lyon) with the functional requirements specified by the UK design teams at Preston.
For the power converters all use very similar designs of Traction IGBT modules, with the Northern Line and Juniper Inverters designed and manufactured at the Trafford Park site while the later modules for the Class 334 4-Quadrant Converter and Class 390 4-QC/Inverter modules were designed and manufactured at the Tarbes site in south-west France (with the support of engineering and manufacturing staff transferred from Trafford Park).
The high voltage switchgear on the 25kV units is the single bottle VCB developed at Trafford Park but subsequently manufactured in Tarbes.
Northern Line and Juniper trains have traction motors designed and manufactured at Preston while the concept design for the Class 390 motors was done by Preston but with detail design and manufacturing at the Ornans plant in eastern France.
The Traction system integration, validation testing and safety case activities were all performed by the engineering teams at Preston and some of the projects are still supported by the engineers who did the original design in the 1990s and early 2000s, based either at Widnes or in the WCML depots.
 

Sad Sprinter

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Fascinating read, thank you. Do they still do design work in Preston and Trafford Park?

Would this mean that the high-speed Networkers Network SouthEast was going to build would of been to the design of the 390 traction packages?
 

43096

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Fascinating read, thank you. Do they still do design work in Preston and Trafford Park?
Moved to Widnes now, hasn’t it?

Many thanks to “SansHache” for that post: most enlightening. So the Junipers I was on earlier have the last of the lineage of English Electric traction motors - no wonder they’re so good.
 

SansHache

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Fascinating read, thank you. Do they still do design work in Preston and Trafford Park?

Would this mean that the high-speed Networkers Network SouthEast was going to build would of been to the design of the 390 traction packages?

Most of the Trafford Park design teams moved to Preston in 1993. Power electronics and control electronics remained in Manchester until around 1999 when Trafford Park closed and the work was transferred to Preston or France.
The Alstom bid for the Channel Tunnel High Speed trains (subsequently Javelins) was based on the Class 390 Traction equipment. A variant was also proposed for the transformer car on the eVoyager project with Bombardier which sadly never came to fruition (the Traction equipment on the Voyager and Meridian trains is also a Preston design).
New build ceased at Preston in 2003 with the Class 390 propulsion equipment being some of the final deliveries. When the Class 390 Additional Cars were manufactured in 2011-2012 the Traction equipment was manufactured in Italy to the original UK design. By a strange quirk of fate the power modules for the Italian built equipment were manufactured in Preston rather than France!
Preston continued as a renovation, repair and overhaul site until it closed in June 2018. Class 390 traction motors had their first two overhauls at Preston and all the major Traction components have been repaired and/or overhauled at the site (VCBs, switchgear, power modules and control electronics). This work has now transferred to Widnes.
The UK engineers have supported various rolling stock bids over the years (none of which have been successful) and continue to provide expertise for new bids such as HS2 rolling stock.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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I'd like to know (if anyone does) whether any of the UK ONIX development is used in the Alstom production (eg TGV/Pendolino) for France or elsewhere.
I believe the class 373 Eurostar traction package (preceding ONIX I think) uses Preston design/components, but I've never been sure about any of the other production.
I travelled on a RENFE class S100 (TGV-derived) last year, a type which opened high speed services in Spain in 1992, and its builder's plate said GEC-Alsthom.
I wondered what, if anything, was its UK content.
 
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Sad Sprinter

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So how independent is the design work done in the UK of Alstom management? For instance, could they theoretically exist as a standalone company or do they just take the work given to them from Paris?
 

SansHache

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I'd like to know (if anyone does) whether any of the UK ONIX development is used in the Alstom production (eg TGV/Pendolino) for France or elsewhere.
I believe the class 373 Eurostar traction package (preceding ONIX I think) uses Preston design/components, but I've never been sure about any of the other production.
I travelled on a RENFE class S100 (TGV-derived) last year, a type which opened high speed services in Spain in 1992, and its builder's plate said GEC-Alsthom.
I wondered what, if anything, was its UK content.

The Class 373 Eurostars were a truly international project. The TMST (Trans Manche Super Train) consortium involved multi-disciplinary teams from several rolling stock companies in the UK, France and Belgium. GEC Traction were heavily involved at their Trafford Park and Preston factories and other parts of the GEC group, such as GEC Transformers in Stafford, also had important roles. Trafford Park was one of the lead sites for the development of the Traction system and the pre-production set of equipment spent many years on the Combined Test facility at Preston. It was possible to drive a complete half-set of power car equipment against load machines that were controlled to simulate the loading conditions on all the different routes. Trafford Park built the oil-cooled power modules and these were integrated into equipment frames at Preston (the Common Bloc) and in France (the Motor Blocs).
The close working relationships formed on the Eurostar project led directly to the creation of the GEC Alsthom joint venture in the early 1990s. Several years later one of the other major TMST partners, ACEC in Belgium, were taken over by GEC Alstom as the European rail industry consolidated to face the challenge of competition from the Far East (Japan and Korea at this time). All very topical on the day that the European Commission has blocked the Siemens Alstom merger! In 1998 GEC Alsthom was rebranded as Alstom (Alstom sans hache (without H) as they say in France, but more notably dropping the GEC prefix as well).
The equipment developed for Eurostar was quite bespoke and designed to comply with very challenging standards. This meant that it was not particularly attractive for use on other projects. There may have also been some commercial constraints on the use of the design that limited its adoptation elsewhere. Traction technology was also advancing rapidly at the time and within a few years the GTO (Gate Turn-Off) thyristor power electronics employed on Eurostar had been superseded by IGBT (Insulated Gate Bipolar Transistor) modules that were smaller, cheaper and lighter.
I would say the most successful product of the GEC Traction era was probably the vacuum circuit breaker (VCB). This became the standard for high speed switchgear on 25kV rolling stock across much of the world for over 25 years. The VCB was designed and developed at Trafford Park and built there and in Preston before transfer to France in the late 1990s.
Preston continued to manufacture Traction equipment for many international contracts throughout the 1990s and early 2000s with major projects in Taiwan, Malaysia, Sweden and the USA (New York subway). One little known fact is that a small number of Moscow Metro trains were built in 2000 equipped with Juniper Traction equipment (there were only minor changes to the Class 458 design). The trains had startling performance with an initial acceleration of 1.3m/s2. Unfortunately the follow-on order for several thousand "Juniperski" sets never materialised.
One of the last new build projects to be launched at Preston was the Traction equipment for new Paris metro trains. This was the first time that RATP had sourced major components from outside France. Unfortunately this proved to be a short-won success as a few months later the decision was taken to end new build at Preston and the project was completed in France.
 

bramling

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Moved to Widnes now, hasn’t it?

Many thanks to “SansHache” for that post: most enlightening. So the Junipers I was on earlier have the last of the lineage of English Electric traction motors - no wonder they’re so good.

Whatever one says about some of the Alstom products of the period (er, 180s?!), the Northern Line 95 stock has settled down to be an excellent train. Quite simply, they don’t break down - even when they do sit down there will almost always be a way of getting the train going, even if just limping to depot. The 390s have also settled down to being a good solid train.

Obviously the Junipers have never quite flourished, but one wonders if this is because they’ve always been a bit of a maverick that’s never quite had the love needed to be star performers. Having said that, the 458s did have a period at or near the top of the tables if I’m remembering rightly?
 

Andy25

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Whatever one says about some of the Alstom products of the period (er, 180s?!), the Northern Line 95 stock has settled down to be an excellent train. Quite simply, they don’t break down - even when they do sit down there will almost always be a way of getting the train going, even if just limping to depot. The 390s have also settled down to being a good solid train.

Obviously the Junipers have never quite flourished, but one wonders if this is because they’ve always been a bit of a maverick that’s never quite had the love needed to be star performers. Having said that, the 458s did have a period at or near the top of the tables if I’m remembering rightly?
334's suffer purely due to the poor maintenance and lack of investment by ScotRail. Treated properly they could be so much better.
 

bramling

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334's suffer purely due to the poor maintenance and lack of investment by ScotRail. Treated properly they could be so much better.

That’s was my hunch. The 95 stock on the Northern is a superb train, but to get to that point they’ve been well looked after (by their manufacturer who also happens to be their owner!), with some effort put in along the way to address issues.

They have their quirks like any train, but now staff understand these quirks and how to deal with them the trains are pretty much bullet-proof.

Interestingly there’s a noticeable tide-mark between the 95 stock and the earlier and technically similar but different 96 stock, which have also been subject to a completely different regime. You won’t find a 95 stock with a cab held together with hazard tape!
 

LNW-GW Joint

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In 1998 GEC Alsthom was rebranded as Alstom (Alstom sans hache (without H) as they say in France, but more notably dropping the GEC prefix as well).

Thanks for taking the time to recall all that, very interesting, as well as explaining your moniker!
My first employer was English Electric (computers, not railway), and it's always interesting to hear how its technology has fared after all the various mergers.
 
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