Altercation on Hucknall train

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by bairy, 14 May 2015.

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  1. bairy

    bairy Member

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    Interesting goings on in Hucknall featuring a smug passenger and an angry guard.

    News story and slightly cringey video: http://www.hucknalldispatch.co.uk/news/local/video-altercation-on-hucknall-train-1-7259390

    [youtube]ti9WaR7N50U[/youtube]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 14 May 2015
  2. Trainfan344

    Trainfan344 Established Member

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    Shame the Guard lost his temper really, don't blame him, but I fear he'll lose his job over this now.
     
  3. Starmill

    Starmill Established Member

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    "Get off! Get off the train you worthless piece of crap!" Oh.. dear :(
     
  4. neilmc

    neilmc Member

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    Double-edged sword that - meant to humiliate the fare dodger when it "goes viral" but unfortunately you can't have staff using language like that and taking the passenger's possessions. Wonder how it ended up.
     
  5. duncanp

    duncanp Member

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    I think that anyone who wishes to sack the guard over this incident should be given a job as a guard themselves and see what it is like to handle situations like that day after day.

    After all, if they do sack him there will be a vacancy, won't there?
     
  6. dooton

    dooton Member

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    I despise the people who film events like this just as much as the guy not buying a ticket. The guard's going to have potentially the end of his career over something the understandably most people would get angry at, all because somebody wanted to upload it to youtube and have their 5 minutes of fame.
     
  7. DaleCooper

    DaleCooper Established Member

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    I wouldn't say I despise him but apart from that I agree with you.
     
  8. Deepgreen

    Deepgreen Established Member

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    Yes - it's often harder being staff than passenger in these situations. I had to "remove" someone from first class a while ago because he objected to me glancing at him when he sat next to me and was clearly 'on' something. He became very abusive and challenging and I had no choice but to physically remove him. The conductor would probably have had fewer options than me as a passenger, and there would probably have been a greater delay.
     
  9. 455driver

    455driver Veteran Member

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    Ah the good old 'I know my rights' but conveniently forgetting their responsibilities!

    Sums up all that is wrong with this country (small c).
     
  10. 221129

    221129 Established Member

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    And what gives you the right to remove another person from the train?
     
  11. deltic1989

    deltic1989 Established Member

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    Shall we start with Section 3 of the Criminal Law Act 1967, and section 24a of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984, and go from there?
     
  12. SouthStand

    SouthStand Member

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    Utter cr@p. If the guard loses his job it will because of his behaviour :roll:
     
  13. MCR247

    MCR247 Established Member

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    Thats Hucknall for you :lol:
     
  14. Paule23

    Paule23 Member

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    I'm not sure I would phrase it in quite this fashion but I do agree, it is not the person filming who is at fault if the guard loses their job. You have to take responsibility for your own actions, this would be unacceptable if it was filmed, and unacceptable if it was not filmed. The person with the camera is not to blame for other peoples actions, or for recording them.
     
  15. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    I doubt anyone (apart from the alleged non-payer in the video, and chavs) would wish to sack the Guard.
    Really? It was misguided but I don't know how you can despise him. He thought it would humiliate the passenger and was 100% on the side of the Guard. Of course we all know it has backfired big time, but you can't despise someone for that surely?

    Probably nothing but sometimes, just sometimes, you can get away with bending the rules to get one over on a yob.;) Must never be done when at work though, and you have to hope you don't get 'caught'!
     
  16. HilversumNS

    HilversumNS Member

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    Would the guard not be able to use the same legislation to remove someone then?
     
  17. MCR247

    MCR247 Established Member

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    In legal terms yes, but in terms of keeping their jobs, in some cases maybe not
     
  18. Bodiddly

    Bodiddly Member

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    I'm sure there are guards reading this. What training do you have to deal with this type of situation? As maintenance, we don't get any training with dealing with difficult members of the public but we get abuse from time to time, especially when we fail a set..The guard here looks like he has lost it big time.
    I had to ask an angry passenger to vacate his cabin one morning in Inverness. He wasn't for moving and getting quite irate. I simply said to him in my calmest voice that if he didn't leave the train he would be locked in and take a trip over to the depot and he would have to make his way from there in about an hours time. He got off pretty sharpish!:lol:
     
  19. Urban Gateline

    Urban Gateline Established Member

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    The poor Guard, his actions probably as a result of a bad day or frustration built up over a longer time. I learnt a similar lesson a while ago, that you have to take a step back sometimes as the company will not back you up if you react like this...
     
  20. SPADTrap

    SPADTrap Established Member

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    So painful to see, really feel for the guard! :(

    If I saw a colleague getting like this I'd get them away ASAP to save their jobs if nothing else, shame no one did!
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Add the guard's company into that?
     
    Last edited: 14 May 2015
  21. Bodiddly

    Bodiddly Member

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    Yes, I did notice that the guard's colleague stood at the back of the train and did nothing while his mate very probably shouted himself out of a job. Unfortunately, even scumbags can't be spoken to like that in our namby pamby society nowadays. :cry:
     
  22. infobleep

    infobleep Established Member

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    Whilst I don't want anyone to lose their job, the video did make me laugh. Of course isn't profanity in public against the law? If it is perhaps the person videoing and the possible fare dodger should be arrested, if the guard has to pay for his actions. Why should they get away with it, especially the awkward passenger.

    The best outcome here might be some training for the guard on how to handle such situations as this in the future.
     
    Last edited: 14 May 2015
  23. RichmondCommu

    RichmondCommu Established Member

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    The problem is if you work with the public you have to be very careful, especially when young people in particular now record everything on their phones. In all fairness I don't think the person who filmed this is likely to have their "5 minutes of fame".
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    I've a feeling that you did this for your own self gratification but hey that's folk for you.
     
  24. satisnek

    satisnek Member

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    Totally agree. Everyone has the right to carry out their job without being broadcast to the world, and in the case of alleged misconduct in a public-facing role it is up to the recipient of said misconduct to instigate a complaint.

    Every time something like this crops up I wonder who the person recording it really is, and I'm gonna look out for these people if ever I encounter such an altercation in future travels.

    Take for example the recent incident of the English footie boys on the Paris Metro. The bloke who recorded it was on the Today programme the very next morning, saying something like, "I could tell that it was going to get nasty so I whipped out my phone and started recording".

    As you do.

    So who was this guy? A BBC employee perhaps?
     
  25. RichmondCommu

    RichmondCommu Established Member

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    So did you have a problem with someone recording racist chanting in order to help bring a prosecution against those racists. Would you prefer it if racist chanting / racist acts went unchallenged and unpunished?
     
  26. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    Are you taking the Mick?

    (Sorry!)

    Seriously though, hasn't anyone seen how the police treat people? Even those who aren't actually doing anything wrong, but perhaps just being a bit nosey when something has happened. Being told to back the f*** off, and all sorts of other abuse.

    In the case of the police it seems some do it to try and provoke a reaction and then have an excuse to 'get involved'. Suffice to say, that's one reason why it's not a good idea for rail staff to say it, however much they're thinking it.

    I'd hope the person concerned gets some retraining and is told to get back to work, as it would be crazy to sack someone. Red mist can affect us all.
     
  27. RichmondCommu

    RichmondCommu Established Member

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    And what do you plan to do if you witness someone recording an incident on their phone?
     
  28. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    Doubtful, but I've seen plenty of things that have made me think something is going to kick off and been proven right - so it's not usually hard to predict, and filming incidents has proven quite useful of late. Remember that unarmed guy running from a police officer in the US? Racism and other assaults on public transport, or on the street? The usefulness of dash cams?

    I recently filmed a bus driver refusing a lady travel as she only had a £20 note, but didn't speak good English. He mentioned a change voucher once, but she didn't understand and he made no attempt to explain. In fact, he was more and more rude and told her to get off.. then shouted at her to get off.

    She came off crying. I was very glad I'd seen this and filmed the latter part, such that I sent the video to the bus company. Ironically, they said the driver had tried to explain before (a lie) and it was out of context, then told me not to publish the video anywhere! They said that my video could have caused a driver to lose his job, whereby I replied and asked how - as I'd not asked for anything to be done to the driver. I am not one of those people who will say 'You should sack xxx' as that's none of my business, and I don't even expect to be told what action was taken later on.

    I actually felt like sending it to the papers after their complete dismissal, but thought against it after thinking logically for about 10 seconds, but I don't think we should be calling for people to stop doing this.

    I think as time goes on, it's a good thing if anyone about to do anything pauses to consider what happens if what they're about to do is filmed and broadcast. After all, it's in public and everyone who is there can and will see it.
     
    Last edited: 15 May 2015
  29. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    I'm not sure what you're trying to say but if an employer has evidence of wrongdoing they can - and probably will - investigate.
    And do what?
    Good job they did.
    Indeed I would.

    But this isn't relevant to the topic in hand, so can I ask that any further discussion of the Paris Metro incident takes place in a separate thread, and not this one, please.
    His name is on his Youtube channel.
    That seems rather unlikely to me.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Yes the Guard and person videoing did both appear to commit an offence, but to suggest they be arrested for it is absurd and ludicrous.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    I agree.
     
  30. TUC

    TUC Established Member

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    I think he uploaded it out of admiration for the guard, not realising the possible consequences.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    In what way are you suggesting that the person videoing it committed an offence?
     
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