Alternative routing with advance fare permitted?

tornado

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hi,

i am planning to buy an advance ticket from Kings Cross to Guiseley (GSY). Normally this routes via Leeds with a change onto a WY Metro between Leeds and Guiseley.

however if I get the 18:33 from KGX it routes via Shipley with a change to a WY Metro train to Guiseley. However I know from experience that I can change at Leeds. The reason that routing isn't showing is that it is 1 min less than the (generous) minimum connection time at Leeds.

am I allowed to end my journey short at Leeds, and then change onto a WY Metro, instead of continuing to Shipley?
 
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hkstudent

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hi,

i am planning to buy an advance ticket from Kings Cross to Guiseley (GSY). Normally this routes via Leeds with a change onto a WY Metro between Leeds and Guiseley.

however if I get the 18:33 from KGX it routes via Shipley with a change to a WY Metro train to Guiseley. However I know from experience that I can change at Leeds. The reason that routing isn't showing is that it is 1 min less than the (generous) minimum connection time at Leeds.

am I allowed to end my journey short at Leeds, and then change onto a WY Metro, instead of continuing to Shipley?
The 10-minute interchange time at Leeds Station is not considered too generous as you may need to go up to a footbridge for interchange between platforms...
You are not allowed to change any bits of travel in the Advance ticket. You need to travel the full bit of journey of each segment.
Leeds Station has guarded ticket barriers, no chance...
 

30907

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hi,

i am planning to buy an advance ticket from Kings Cross to Guiseley (GSY). Normally this routes via Leeds with a change onto a WY Metro between Leeds and Guiseley.

however if I get the 18:33 from KGX it routes via Shipley with a change to a WY Metro train to Guiseley. However I know from experience that I can change at Leeds. The reason that routing isn't showing is that it is 1 min less than the (generous) minimum connection time at Leeds.

am I allowed to end my journey short at Leeds, and then change onto a WY Metro, instead of continuing to Shipley?
The strict answer is NO, but IMO you are highly unlikely to be challenged, and in any case staff are instructed to use discretion where people are not taking the proverbial....
In normal times you would have time at Leeds to walk over from P8 to the Ilkley train ON P3, ask permission to travel, and if refused walk back again. However there is reportedly a one-way system in operation...
 

alistairlees

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hi,

i am planning to buy an advance ticket from Kings Cross to Guiseley (GSY). Normally this routes via Leeds with a change onto a WY Metro between Leeds and Guiseley.

however if I get the 18:33 from KGX it routes via Shipley with a change to a WY Metro train to Guiseley. However I know from experience that I can change at Leeds. The reason that routing isn't showing is that it is 1 min less than the (generous) minimum connection time at Leeds.

am I allowed to end my journey short at Leeds, and then change onto a WY Metro, instead of continuing to Shipley?
Currently complete ticket acceptance is in place. If you are doing this journey soon (as opposed to, say, in September), then I cannot see any issue at all with getting a train from Leeds to Guiseley, rather than going to Shipley and getting a train from there. Even under normal circumstances I can't see any issue arising - there would be no financial gain, and no-one would be worse off. I suggest you just do it.
 

hkstudent

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The strict answer is NO, but IMO you are highly unlikely to be challenged, and in any case staff are instructed to use discretion where people are not taking the proverbial....
In normal times you would have time at Leeds to walk over from P8 to the Ilkley train ON P3, ask permission to travel, and if refused walk back again. However there is reportedly a one-way system in operation...
But I am kind of concerned that once the OP is being refused to board, he can't continue his journey with the LNER train as that will be long gone...
In that case, would be OP be required pay the difference between the advance fare and a full anytime fare for London - Leeds journey?

Currently complete ticket acceptance is in place. If you are doing this journey soon (as opposed to, say, in September), then I cannot see any issue at all with getting a train from Leeds to Guiseley, rather than going to Shipley and getting a train from there. Even under normal circumstances I can't see any issue arising - there would be no financial gain, and no-one would be worse off. I suggest you just do it.
No, I think Northern may be slightly worse off by that, as Northern is only be allocated revenue for Shipley - Guiseley section, which is shorter than Leeds - Guiseley section...
 

Hadders

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The OP is going from Kings Cross to Guisley so he'll be changing onto Northern not LNER at Leeds.

I agree with @alistairlees that this is unlikely to be an issue although do be prepared to follow the one way system. There shouldn't be any barriers to pass through.
 

tornado

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I should add that the LNER train from Kings Cross to Bradford (stopping at Shipley) waits 13 minutes at Leeds station (dwell time), which is partly why changing there is more sensible.

They normally check tickets once the train from Leeds up to Ilkley is in motion, so it would be a bit late to go back and get on the LNER at that stage...
 

yorkie

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Is this journey being made before the timetable is restored (which I think is the 4th of July)?

If so then there is acceptance in place (and an on board check would be highly unlikely).

Beyond that, it wouldn't technically be permitted, but you can force a change at Leeds (some booking engines allow this) and simply take an earlier connecting train from Leeds if you make the connection.

Taking an earlier train on the connections leg is generally deemed to be reasonable. But if you are concerned you could seek permission form the Guard prior to departure at Leeds.
 

tornado

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It's probably late july/august.

Forcing the change at Leeds would seem ideal, but LNER booking engine doesn't seem to do the trick even when ticking VIA and inserting Leeds.

Also, anyone know why the Bradford train waits 13 minutes at Leeds? pathing issues?
 

yorkie

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It's probably late july/august.

Forcing the change at Leeds would seem ideal, but LNER booking engine doesn't seem to do the trick even when ticking VIA and inserting Leeds.
LNER don't provide that functionality.

A site that does offer that, and also offers a seat selector, without charging a fee, is Trainsplit.com (click advanced options)
Also, anyone know why the Bradford train waits 13 minutes at Leeds? pathing issues?
Possibly that and also bear in mind that it needs to reverse (unless they give up the Wakefield call, which would also require the use of a bi-mode unit)
 

30907

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It's probably late july/august.

Forcing the change at Leeds would seem ideal, but LNER booking engine doesn't seem to do the trick even when ticking VIA and inserting Leeds.

Also, anyone know why the Bradford train waits 13 minutes at Leeds? pathing issues?
There isn't a later Ilkley train ATM, so even "avoid Shipley" won't produce anything.
The wait at Leeds is largely for the crew to change ends, plus a bit for pathing.
 

yorkie

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A journey for July can't be booked yet but it shouldn't be an issue once the timetable is finalised and bookings are open.
 

AlbertBeale

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Possibly that and also bear in mind that it needs to reverse (unless they give up the Wakefield call, which would also require the use of a bi-mode unit)
How does giving up the Wakefield call avoid reversing at Leeds? There's surely no feasible route to bring you in to Leeds from the east, so as to continue forwards to Bradford; or if you mean skipping Leeds completely, then wouldn't the obvious route take you through Wakefield anyway - but just via Kirkgate instead of Westgate?
 

alistairlees

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How does giving up the Wakefield call avoid reversing at Leeds? There's surely no feasible route to bring you in to Leeds from the east, so as to continue forwards to Bradford; or if you mean skipping Leeds completely, then wouldn't the obvious route take you through Wakefield anyway - but just via Kirkgate instead of Westgate?
As you say, come into Leeds from the East. Route being, after Doncaster, to proceed up the ecml to hambleton junction, then go via south Milford, micklefield and Cross Gates. Some services used to do this.
 

Tetchytyke

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You could try requesting additional time to change, that's likely to knock you onto a later connection at Leeds. As there are no reservations, you can take any reasonable connection, so just get on the earlier one

Alternatively leave it as it is, you'll not have issues but if the LNER is late you could still catch the connection at Shipley.
 

30907

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You could try requesting additional time to change, that's likely to knock you onto a later connection at Leeds. As there are no reservations, you can take any reasonable connection, so just get on the earlier one

Alternatively leave it as it is, you'll not have issues but if the LNER is late you could still catch the connection at Shipley.
When the full Ilkley service is restored, the first option will be possible, but you lose the option of going via Shipley, so I wouldn't go for it.
 

AlbertBeale

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As you say, come into Leeds from the East. Route being, after Doncaster, to proceed up the ecml to hambleton junction, then go via south Milford, micklefield and Cross Gates. Some services used to do this.
Thanks! Sorry - I must have missed spotting that chord at Hambleton on the map I looked at.
 

kieron

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It's probably late july/august.

Forcing the change at Leeds would seem ideal, but LNER booking engine doesn't seem to do the trick even when ticking VIA and inserting Leeds.
You'd actually need a couple of restrictions. One to force it to use a Leeds-Ilkley train ("avoid Shipley" would give you this on LNER).

The other is to force it to give a longer wait than you need. There isn't a valid connection between the 18:33 to Leeds and the 21:03 to Ilkley, as you mention. There is a valid connection between the 19:03 to Leeds and the 21:33 to Ilkley, so if you just put "avoid Shipley" into a web site, it probably won't give you the 18:33 at all. If you added (say) 15 minutes to the connection time, it would give a connection between the 18:33 and the 21:33. That's not something the LNER web site can do. As far as I can tell, your choice is between using a different web site or booking via a human.
 

kieron

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Sadly, the National Rail site only offers delays of an extra 30, 60, 90 or 120 minutes, none of which are any good for this purpose.
 

yorkie

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I don't understand how it's any better to fiddle about with NRE and then re-direct to LNER, when a third party website will allow you to specify advanced options, including forcing a change with a custom extra duration, which does it all in one go.

In the past I'd say it was worth the faff to access the seat selector, but that's no longer an advantage. Also the LNER website might charge you more.
 

Wallsendmag

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I don't understand how it's any better to fiddle about with NRE and then re-direct to LNER, when a third party website will allow you to specify advanced options, including forcing a change with a custom extra duration, which does it all in one go.

In the past I'd say it was worth the faff to access the seat selector, but that's no longer an advantage. Also the LNER website might charge you more.
I guess we both have unbiased views ;)
 

30907

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Sadly, the National Rail site only offers delays of an extra 30, 60, 90 or 120 minutes, none of which are any good for this purpose.
Putting in 1hr works well enough.
The problem was that the 2103 is the last train from Leeds to Ilkley currently; a 2233 has been added from 6 July so the journey is possible (NRE still has a warning against it, but it shows a fare.
 

tornado

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Putting in 1hr works well enough.
The problem was that the 2103 is the last train from Leeds to Ilkley currently; a 2233 has been added from 6 July so the journey is possible (NRE still has a warning against it, but it shows a fare.
Doesn't seem to work for me. With travel VIA leeds and 1 hour change, it routes via Bradford!
 

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