Alternative travel advice for journeys that would involve the Redhill <> Tonbridge line

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by Horizon22, 28 Dec 2019.

  1. Horizon22

    Horizon22 Member

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    Last edited by a moderator: 29 Dec 2019
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  3. tsr

    tsr Established Member

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    That’s not designed to be an accurate estimate - it will take longer - it’s just a reasonable time in the future which they picked to give the impression they’ll be accepting tickets in the long run. The duration of these issues will mean that more substantial commercial agreements with non-GTR operators (such as SE) will be put in place with a more accurate estimate for normal working, but this basically isn’t yet known.
     
  4. Horizon22

    Horizon22 Member

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    Oh of course. I fully expect that - now the situation on the ground has been much more broadly explored - to be at least a 2+ months arrangement. But at least passengers can start planning. A month psychologically for a railway problem makes people sit up and go "oh wow" better go plan my route / hire a car / make working-from-home arrangements with my employer.

    Good friends of mine commute from Tonbridge to Redhill & Crawley and are looking at their options - the cheapest (one car between them) is to route via London and claim Delay Repay.
     
  5. big all

    big all On Moderation

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    Train Tonbridge to Tunbridge Wells bus 281 to Crawley about 2 hrs
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 29 Dec 2019
  6. tsr

    tsr Established Member

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    There is a recognised considerable passenger flow from the Tonbridge area to Gatwick and Crawley - in the peak hours, there are probably more passengers than those going to the Redhill area and Reigate College combined, for example. It would be lovely to have direct trains, but obviously there would be plenty enough difficulties arranging paths via Redhill and Earlswood. A direct bus is also probably unlikely - it is hard to know where it should diverge from the route to Redhill - and if it drops off everybody else at Redhill and then continues to Gatwick, it would be no quicker than changing trains. I guess most “through” passengers who travel end-to-end on the Redhill to Tonbridge line will probably change at London Bridge or similar, as you suggest.
     
  7. Chrisgr31

    Chrisgr31 Established Member

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    I saw one of the replacement rail buses for the Redhill - Tonbridge route today. It said on the front "South Western Railways Replacement Bus Service" which amused me.
     
  8. Horizon22

    Horizon22 Member

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    Indeed, I'm reasonable aware of the route in question and the passenger flows. It would cause a further operational nightmare at Redhill to have services reversing (even with Platform 0) when GWR already do that; shame the station is built where it is really. Southern already canned the few direct Victoria services from Tonbridge which were running a few years back and not to mention there are now some incredibly tight connections at Redhill for passengers wanting the south.

    Still you're looking at a ~40 minute journey to London Bridge, and then a ~45 minute journey to Crawley (including a change) or ~30 minute journey to Gatwick for the forseeable future. That's about 90 minutes, maybe an additional change including a contra-peak train that may be running late as opposed to a 40 minute journey with a change at Redhill. Not great options if the current shuttle has to end.
     
  9. Surreytraveller

    Surreytraveller Established Member

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    *291*
     
  10. B&W

    B&W Member

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    Enjoy that bus.
    First 291 from TW leaves TW station 0720 and after staggering around Groombridge Forest Row East Grinstead and Crawley Down should get to Crawley at 0910 on school days, that's if it is not delayed by traffic from East Grinstead onwards to Crawley which is a given at that time of day.
    Mind you plenty of seats, when I used it I was the sole passenger on a double decker from Forest Row to Groombridge going the other way in the peak and had a packed total of five of us when it got to TW.

    Ticket acceptance via LB is good news, otherwise its over £80 per trip for me as opposed to £31 via Redhill Tonbridge (which ticket is not easy to find on either Network Rail, SE or Southern Web sites) The connections are so bad I get to TW at the same time via London Bridge as I do going via Redhill Tonbridge direct, ie leave Chichester at 0608 and TW at 0909. You arrive at Tonbridge on platform 1 to see the tail lights of a Hastings leaving platform 3 disappearing under the bridge.
    What is surprising is how many use this line, the peak hours can be standing getting into Tonbridge and well over 75% full on a Saturday even with a user unfriendly hourly only service.

    Thoughts to those struggling in the mud to rectify the slip, the Weald is always troublesome in the wet, there have been bad slips over the years in a lot of different places on the Brighton main line, MidSussex north and south of Horsham as well as on the Hastings south of TW.
     
  11. Surreytraveller

    Surreytraveller Established Member

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    Would it be worth someone who normally buys a season ticket from Tonbridge to London buying a monthly from Tonbridge to Redhill instead for the time being? Although I suppose they wouldn't be allowed to break their journey in London?
     
  12. Minstral25

    Minstral25 Established Member

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    There is also a (probably smaller) contra-flow of passengers from Reigate/Redhill area that work in Tonbridge, Tunbridge Wells, High Brooms etc that the extra hour journey times each way is going to significantly disrupt commutes (2 hours per day). If this is to be a long term problem then an express bus service during peak hours will become a necessity. This line is a small but vital link for many.

    Fastest route is straight up to the M25 and then A21 to Tonbridge
     
    Last edited: 29 Dec 2019
  13. Horizon22

    Horizon22 Member

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    Fairly sure that's condoning ticket fraud; you are deliberately not making that journey you have bought.

    Good luck trying to get out of Reigate / Redhill at Junction 8. If the bus used J6 it might be better, but the traffic around there can be awful.
     
  14. Surreytraveller

    Surreytraveller Established Member

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    If the ticket's valid to do that, then its not fraud. If it isn't, then it is fraud
     
  15. Horizon22

    Horizon22 Member

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    The way you were insinuating that your regular Tonbridge - London traveller instead buys a cheaper Tonbridge - Redhill ticket taking advantage of the fact the line is closed, despite the fact this is not the journey they intend on making. I'm not a ticketing guru (in fact might be a worthwhile question for the other forum), but seems deceptive at the least.
     
  16. Surreytraveller

    Surreytraveller Established Member

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    If a ticket is valid for a journey you are making, then there is nothing wrong with using that ticket for that journey. It was just a thought, but as I stated, I suspect the ticket wouldn't be valid for a break of journey.
    Regardless of whether it is deceptive or not, if it is valid, then it is valid.
     
  17. Horizon22

    Horizon22 Member

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    This is what Southern says:

    Anyway away from the ticket issues, apparently Network Rail's "worst-case estimate" is 8 weeks but as stated the ground continues to move.

    There isn't going to be anything but a bus until the 6th January with the Tonbridge-Edenbridge shuttle to run Monday-Friday only. It's going to be journey time increases of 40+ minutes for everyone probably.
     
    Last edited: 29 Dec 2019
  18. Minstral25

    Minstral25 Established Member

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    I do that daily and it's not a great problem. In any case I would suspect they would be better having any fast buses from the rear car park at Redhill travelling down A25 to Godstone and picking up M25 there.
     
  19. Horizon22

    Horizon22 Member

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    In morning rush hour it was a nightmare trying to come down Reigate Hill when I did that journey a few years back. Basically gridlock for 20 minutes.
     
  20. 30907

    30907 Established Member

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    If there is a significant through demand, wonder how long a non-stop Redhill-Sevenoaks bus, along the A25 rather than the M25, would take? Or indeed Redhill-Tonbridge, though I think that would be slower than changing at Sevenoaks.
     
  21. Nicholas Lewis

    Nicholas Lewis Member

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  22. londonbridge

    londonbridge Member

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    AIUI a season ticket is valid for journeys between intermediate stations along the route. If the permitted route becomes Tonbridge-London Bridge-Redhill for the duration of the repair works then I would argue they cannot stop break of journey at London Bridge unless they specifically put a clause against it in the acceptance arrangements. And even if they did, what's to prevent someone from travellingTonbridge-London Bridge and asking to be let through the barrier in order to use station facilities and then simply leave the station?
     

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