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Alton Towers incident

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carriageline

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The Saw at Thorpe Park and the dragons fury and rattlesnake rides at Chessington have been closed amid safety fears.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---




Quoted as 11 minutes in todays edition


I suspect (I know saw is) are made by Gerstlauer which is who made The Smiler, and something would of been "learnt" from this unfortunate incident, be it human error or whatever, that can be passed onto other rides with similar control systems.
 
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TheKnightWho

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The fault was down to a software issue, so I suspect they're reviewing all rides using that software.
 

thebigcheese

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I'm aware of a few incidents that have occurred at Chessington that have not reached the media through what I assume is a park manager running out with a cheque book. One notable instance was on Dragonfury where a (IIRC) 10-year-old boy sat on top of the restraints instead of under them and was sent round - apparently looking very pale when he stood up in the final brake run which is how it was noticed. Working on rides is such a repetitive and sometimes boring job it's easy to see how people go into autopilot or relax certain rules (not suggesting this is what happened here)
 

WillPS

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To keep it in perspective, by calling off the trip you have reduced the comparatively high chance of being killed or injured in a car crash, or if you planned to take the train being killed or injured as a pedestrian. This is the first roller coaster incident in the UK in years that has involved very serious injuries, if I recall.

There have been several, including fatalities.

2001:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1400470.stm
(Block system erroneous override, 1 dead)

2004:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/3629943.stm
(restraint/check failure, 1 dead)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incidents_at_European_amusement_parks

Any suggestion the ride will end up being ripped out as a result of this is utter tosh.
 

Bletchleyite

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I'm aware of a few incidents that have occurred at Chessington that have not reached the media through what I assume is a park manager running out with a cheque book. One notable instance was on Dragonfury where a (IIRC) 10-year-old boy sat on top of the restraints instead of under them and was sent round - apparently looking very pale when he stood up in the final brake run which is how it was noticed. Working on rides is such a repetitive and sometimes boring job it's easy to see how people go into autopilot or relax certain rules (not suggesting this is what happened here)

I suppose one issue is that for maximum safety you really need railway levels of professionalism from far lower-cost, lower-trained staff. As what is a roller coaster if not a kind of railway?
 

Antman

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I suppose one issue is that for maximum safety you really need railway levels of professionalism from far lower-cost, lower-trained staff. As what is a roller coaster if not a kind of railway?

I've been to most of the theme parks in the past and they have all been very safety orientated but there is obviously no legislating for human error if indeed that was the cause of this accident.

Alton Towers reopens at 10.00 today.
 

Merseysider

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It has emerged that one victim unfortunately had her leg amputated.

BBC said:
Alton Towers Smiler crash: Leah Washington's leg amputated

Leah Washington's leg was amputated in hospital
A 17-year-old girl injured in a rollercoaster crash at Alton Towers has had her leg amputated, it has emerged. Leah Washington was on the front row of the Smiler ride, which crashed into an empty carriage in front of it. Three others who were also in the front row sustained serious leg injuries, while a fifth person is being treated for internal injuries. The theme park reopened this morning, six days after the crash, but the ride remains closed. Owners Merlin Entertainments said it had carried out "a thorough review" of safety procedures.
Health and Safety Executive (HSE) inspectors have also been on site.

Alton Towers reopened at 10:00 BST, six days after the crash.

Honeymooner Craig Cooper: "It was horrific what happened but I'm glad they've opened the rest of Alton Towers."

From the scene: Trystan Jones, BBC News Online
The queues at the entrance to Alton Towers could be measured in the dozens, rather than hundreds soon after the gates opened at 10:00 BST.
The car parks also looked pretty empty, although it was early in the day. Nobody I spoke to was worried about safety and a couple said they would be happy to ride the Smiler if it had been open. One couple told me there was far more chance of having an accident on the way to the park than at it. I spoke to two visitors who used to work at the park. They said safety was really strict, with operators having to complete hours of training before being allowed to operate rides. On some rides operators even have to complete written exams, they said.

The area around the Smiler rollercoaster remains closed and fenced off
A number of people who had pre-booked tickets for Monday have said they will not now attend. Student Louise Riley, who had planned to visit Alton Towers with a group of friends, said they did not want to feel "like guinea pigs" on the first day since the accident.

"We're quite a bit nervous that other rides have been closed as well," she said. "It makes you question the safety of all the rides."

Source
 

carriageline

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That is so tragic, literally have no words.

But the student who feels she's a Guinea pigs since the accident? What a load of tosh. No need to be nervous about other rides being closed either.
 
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ExRes

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The fault was down to a software issue, so I suspect they're reviewing all rides using that software.

You may be right but it would be interesting to know where you got your information from and its veracity

Just after the accident it was reported in the press that the carriage involved was in collision with an empty carriage which had been sent round as a test after faults, if that is in any way true then it would take an interesting explanation as to why the loaded carriage was sent on its way before the tester had arrived back at the point of origin, that would point to total human incompetence rather than any software issue and will, I suspect, cost Merlin an awful lot of money when the case arrives in court

As for the disagreements on the use of the word 'horrific', perhaps a 17 year old girl with one amputated leg would be best one to give a definition
 

Bletchleyite

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As for the disagreements on the use of the word 'horrific', perhaps a 17 year old girl with one amputated leg would be best one to give a definition

I think now it has come to light that an amputation was involved and not solely recoverable if serious injuries, this term is probably justified.
 

OneOffDave

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An 11 minute delay isn't that long for a complex event like this one. As I understand it, the responders at Alton Towers have the same level of training and kit as the Community First Responders that most ambulance services have.

From my experience writing emergency plans for places like sports stadia, hospitals and shopping centres, routing all 999 calls through security works as then security are aware and can send people to meet the emergency services and guide them to the scene. Then can also manage the traffic at the site to maintain entrances and exits.

Having someone trained assess the scene is better as they can pass on a more useful message to the emergency services. An immediate message from this incident would have said there's been an accident and some people might be hurt. Thi would have got you one or possibly two ambulances until they could report back on the incident. Giving a message using something like the METHANE format gives much more useful information and means more, more appropriate resources get to the scene faster, despite the initial call taking longer
 

GB

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Not really sure why we are arguing semantics over the word "horrific". Every dictionary I have seen, including online, lists horrific as "causing horror or shock" or something broadly similar. I can't see why that wouldn't fit in this case.
 

Harlan Cage

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Not the time of the place to go into semantics, but rather just have compassion and sympathy for all this hurt in this accident

HC
 

GB

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An immediate message from this incident would have said there's been an accident and some people might be hurt. This would have got you one or possibly two ambulances until they could report back on the incident. Giving a message using something like the METHANE format gives much more useful information and means more, more appropriate resources get to the scene faster, despite the initial call taking longer

Depends how that first message is conveyed and what detail it contains.

As an outsider, surely getting emergency services on the way as soon as possible and then escalate as required is the better option?
 

ralphchadkirk

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The problem I have with CFRs and security staff attempting a METHANE report is that they are likely to get very hung up on each individual point and trying to find the most information out about each point before ringing, which negates the time saving. Sensibly the first emergency service resource on scene should provide a "windscreen report" so the control rooms can start putting procedures into practice and starting preparing for it, before assessing for a METHANE report.
 

OneOffDave

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The problem I have with CFRs and security staff attempting a METHANE report is that they are likely to get very hung up on each individual point and trying to find the most information out about each point before ringing, which negates the time saving. Sensibly the first emergency service resource on scene should provide a "windscreen report" so the control rooms can start putting procedures into practice and starting preparing for it, before assessing for a METHANE report.

Having worked as an emergency planner in health and local authorities for over 10 years, including working on plans for facilities similar to Alton Towers, I'm sure the approach of using trained site staff to compile the first report will have been worked out together with the emergency services as the park will feature on the local risk register both in terms of the crowds and the nature of the rides.

They may not actually use the METHANE mnemonic and could have been using CHALETS (Casualties, Hazards, Access, Location, Emergency services on scene and required, Type and nature of incident, Start a log) as services are only recently switching to METHANE following the national roll out of JESIP (Joint Emergency Services Interoperability Protocol) which set METHANE as a standard, including for 'windscreen' reports.

A 999 call from one of the ride operators or another eye witness won't have important information such as how to access the right bit of the park and how to get guided once there to the incident site. It doesn't take long to do a METHANE report and I've used it at a few incidents I've come across as it's good for focusing the mind and ensuring that you pass all the info you need. Once practiced a few times it becomes second nature.

The message from this incident would tell Control that you'd need HART, Fire service support and a number of ambulances. You wouldn't mobilise that lot on the grounds of a 'normal' 999 call but something structured would generate that response.
 
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The message from this incident would tell Control that you'd need HART, Fire service support and a number of ambulances. You wouldn't mobilise that lot on the grounds of a 'normal' 999 call but something structured would generate that response.

In which case it seems that the process didn't work as designed, as I believe I read that the fire service weren't requested in the first instance, the ambulance crew called for fire service support when they arrived.
 

sheeldz

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Alton Towers have admitted full responsibility for the event, and have encouraged all affected in writing to seek lawyers to help with damages and compensation claims.

This suggests that operator error might have played a massive role in the incident. Or, of course, it could be a way for Alton Towers to control the narrative and help those involved. Either way, accepting culpability before the investigation concludes suggests an operational issue, rather than a manufacturer's malfunction. Though, without knowing how the ownership of these rides and the contracts that they have with the manufacturer, there might be a legal reason for this.
 

GB

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Could someone state what the letters of METHANE stand for?
I assume...

METHANE report
M My call-sign, or name and appointment
Major incident STANDBY or DECLARED
E Exact location
• grid reference, or GPS where available
T Type of incident
H Hazards, present and potential
A Access to scene, and egress route
• helicopter landing site location
N Number and severity of casualties
E Emergency services present and required
 

OneOffDave

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Just to clarify from above, HART are paramedics trained to work in hazardous areas such as at heights, in confined spaces, with breathing apparatus on etc
 

ExRes

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The fault was down to a software issue, so I suspect they're reviewing all rides using that software.

You never did back this claim up, something I thought was supposed to be mandatory on this forum

Reports from numerous media outlets, not just the Daily Mail, suggest that two employees are under investigation for failing to follow safety procedures and for manually overriding an automatic safety lock



http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...Hrs8gJ&usg=AFQjCNHNTmN3at_pisioxUVSmGtmImW5Pw
 

EssexGonzo

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You never did back this claim up, something I thought was supposed to be mandatory on this forum


The internet would be a very quiet place if claims and comments and assertions were all backed by actual, real, bona fide facts!

I've seen many opinions on this and other forums which clearly have no facts behind them. In my humble opinion of course.....
 

Kernowfem

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I can totally understand and sympathise with two of the victims of this event. While investigations continue into the causes of the incident rumble on, I'd like to put forward my perspective.

The after effects for the victims will probably last a lifetime. Firstly there's the recovery from surgery, the six weeks it takes to heal the stump area, the intense physio to build up muscles and strength again. Then there's the pam aid walking, which is a metal framed leg device with an inflatable internal cushion with which the stump sits. This enables an amputee to practice walking before one gets a prosthetic.

At around eight weeks post amputation you'll be fitted with the prosthetic, this is where the hard work starts and in my case where realisation hit. It feels odd, it's painful, you can't feel what you stand on, you have no control over it. You have to learn how to put the prosthetic on, take it off and how to adjust your stump sock wear to fit correctly.

Learning to put on a shoe is frustrating, there's a nack to it and you need a shoe horn handy at all times. The first thing you do in a morning is out the leg on, the last thing at night is take it off. In the early days you'll forget your limb isn't there any more and you'll fall more than once. The phantom pain is horrific and confuses you completely.

Once you're up and walking (eventually) you'll suffer hip and back pain because your posture and gate have altered so much. Your balance will be effected and you'll sometimes walk like you're drunk. You'll carry spare limb, stump socks, and sleeves that hold the leg on everywhere you go. I call it my leg bag.

Standing in the shower is difficult, climbing the stairs is difficult, just walking across a room to turn on the light becomes such an effort.

You feel ugly, you almost grieve for your limb, it took me a long time to pluck up the courage to go to a swimming pool and wear a swimsuit. Even now showing my scars is difficult. As you get older your mobility gets worse, your remaining limb becomes tired as it compensates weight wise for the other, it bloody hurts...and still the phantom pain is there.

It's an impossible struggle some days....I now only drive automatics, and I've had my leg fall off in public. However, you get used to it, you develop a dark sense of humour and you survive, life becomes bearable and fulfilling again.

You have a disability, and you go through massive changes, but you do get your life back, when the anger clears you realise how lucky you are and you become determined to get on with it.

Suddenly you develop a routine and you no longer think I can't do that. Instead you think how can I do this in a different way, you problem solve.

Life changes totally, but life goes on. It's the same for anyone who suffers life changing injuries or disability. No one should go anywhere and come back maimed, whether that be on a theme park ride or simply walking down the road.

Any compensation received in cases like this goes towards giving the person in question a better or manageable life, it truly helped me.

I send my best wishes to all involved and wish them a speedy recovery, and I hope they get the answers they'll need to get closure on it all. Closure.....it does eventually come and when it does live and love life. You made it through, you survived, get on with it! It gets better! :)
 

Antman

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I can totally understand and sympathise with two of the victims of this event. While investigations continue into the causes of the incident rumble on, I'd like to put forward my perspective.

The after effects for the victims will probably last a lifetime. Firstly there's the recovery from surgery, the six weeks it takes to heal the stump area, the intense physio to build up muscles and strength again. Then there's the pam aid walking, which is a metal framed leg device with an inflatable internal cushion with which the stump sits. This enables an amputee to practice walking before one gets a prosthetic.

At around eight weeks post amputation you'll be fitted with the prosthetic, this is where the hard work starts and in my case where realisation hit. It feels odd, it's painful, you can't feel what you stand on, you have no control over it. You have to learn how to put the prosthetic on, take it off and how to adjust your stump sock wear to fit correctly.

Learning to put on a shoe is frustrating, there's a nack to it and you need a shoe horn handy at all times. The first thing you do in a morning is out the leg on, the last thing at night is take it off. In the early days you'll forget your limb isn't there any more and you'll fall more than once. The phantom pain is horrific and confuses you completely.

Once you're up and walking (eventually) you'll suffer hip and back pain because your posture and gate have altered so much. Your balance will be effected and you'll sometimes walk like you're drunk. You'll carry spare limb, stump socks, and sleeves that hold the leg on everywhere you go. I call it my leg bag.

Standing in the shower is difficult, climbing the stairs is difficult, just walking across a room to turn on the light becomes such an effort.

You feel ugly, you almost grieve for your limb, it took me a long time to pluck up the courage to go to a swimming pool and wear a swimsuit. Even now showing my scars is difficult. As you get older your mobility gets worse, your remaining limb becomes tired as it compensates weight wise for the other, it bloody hurts...and still the phantom pain is there.

It's an impossible struggle some days....I now only drive automatics, and I've had my leg fall off in public. However, you get used to it, you develop a dark sense of humour and you survive, life becomes bearable and fulfilling again.

You have a disability, and you go through massive changes, but you do get your life back, when the anger clears you realise how lucky you are and you become determined to get on with it.

Suddenly you develop a routine and you no longer think I can't do that. Instead you think how can I do this in a different way, you problem solve.

Life changes totally, but life goes on. It's the same for anyone who suffers life changing injuries or disability. No one should go anywhere and come back maimed, whether that be on a theme park ride or simply walking down the road.

Any compensation received in cases like this goes towards giving the person in question a better or manageable life, it truly helped me.

I send my best wishes to all involved and wish them a speedy recovery, and I hope they get the answers they'll need to get closure on it all. Closure.....it does eventually come and when it does live and love life. You made it through, you survived, get on with it! It gets better! :)

Excellent post, a friend of mine lost part of a leg in a motorbike accident which he accepts was entirely his own fault and that made it easier to deal with, obviously the Alton Towers victims were entirely blameless and he thinks that will make it a lot harder for them and that no amount of compensation is too much for them.

He said much the same as you have, he has a prosthetic leg and now leads a near normal life
 
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