Altrincham - Chester line speed improvements

[high camera]

https://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/news/altrincham-to-chester-line-gets-800000-upgrade/

Network Rail will invest £800,000 in a section of track between Altrincham and Ashley, allowing faster journeys from Manchester to Chester via Northwich.

The major improvements, which will see 2,500 tonnes of railway stone and 700 sleepers replaced, along with new drainage works. This will allow a 20mph speed limit on the section of track to be lifted.

Anyone know what £800,000 will buy ?

 

[geoffk]

Where is the 20 mph speed limit now? I was on the line recently and don't recall it.

 

[krus_aragon]

Where is the 20 mph speed limit now? I was on the line recently and don't recall it.

From a look at the Sectional Appendix, between Navigation Road and Skelton Jn it's 20mph on the up, and 15mph on the down. There's also 25mph through Altrincham, 20mph both ways between Northwich West Jn and Hartford East Jn, and some more 25mph around Mouldsworth.

So it seem the only 20mph part is Northwich, but the article's description of "the Bleeding Wolf, named after a folk legend ... [which] also leant its name to a pub on Ashley Road" implies they're talking about Altrincham.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Where is the 20 mph speed limit now? I was on the line recently and don't recall it.

Might it be over the Bollin bridge? Between Altrincham and Ashley anyway.
The other significant 20mph limit on the route is over the Weaver viaduct between Northwich and Greenbank, but it looks like that is staying.
The line is still generally a slow one (60mph), with the sharp curves at Deansgate Jn/Navigation Road (15/20mph), Altrincham-Hale (25) and the junction with the Warrington route at Mickle Trafford (35).

 

[Senex]

The NR notice says that £800,000 is being "invested". Yet the work seems to be no more than making good major arrears of maintenance. Is this really investment in the railway, or is it another example of the spread of teh use of the word to cover any sort of expenditure, even on routine work?

 

[cle]

It could be a much more useful line (not least if the Man Airport tunnel was constructed) - but Navigation Road and Hale are challenges for sure, in terms of frequency. And journey times vs the Met are not competitive at all.

 

[chillyed]

It's in Hale apparently. Even with the slow linespeeds it shouldn't take so long between Altrincham and Chester. I've gone non stop from Navigation Road to Chester before and it's nearly twice as quick. Electrification would make a hell of a difference.

 

[Greybeard33]

The Bleeding Wolf pub (which is now a block of flats) was at the south end of Hale village, on the crossroads where the B5162 (Heather Road/Park Road) crosses Ashley Road.

There are three closely spaced overbridges in this area. They carry (north to south) Heather Road, Ashley Road and Bankhall Lane across the line.

 

[markem41]

So in summary the ground is wet (near a river), the drainage is poor (to be improved) and the existing sleepers have probably rotted (to be replaced). Claiming this as proof of the success of the Great North Rail Project is stretching it a bit.

 

[Greybeard33]

From a quick gander while driving past this evening, there are replacement lengths of rail lying in the four-foot of the Down line over a distance of maybe 500m, centred on the aforementioned bridges, with bags of ballast at the ready in the cess. The article says 700 sleepers to be replaced, which equates to about 500m of single track.

It seems like overblown publicity for a routine bit of renewals!

 

[yorkie]

https://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/news/altrincham-to-chester-line-gets-800000-upgrade/

Can you please edit this post to include both a quote from the article and a comment of your own, thanks.

 

[gazthomas]

It staggers me how slow all the lines from Chester to Manchester are. It's as if the M56 doesn't exist. It should take 30 minutes not upwards of 1 hour

 

[gazthomas]

The NR notice says that £800,000 is being "invested". Yet the work seems to be no more than making good major arrears of maintenance. Is this really investment in the railway, or is it another example of the spread of teh use of the word to cover any sort of expenditure, even on routine work?

Probably the former. £800k doesn't seem to go far in Network Rail's world. Imagine this elsewhere - 20 teachers or nurses for a year...

 

[mrcaa]

It staggers me how slow all the lines from Chester to Manchester are. It's as if the M56 doesn't exist. It should take 30 minutes not upwards of 1 hour

The Leeds train has done it in about 45 minutes before. Massive improvement on the 70-minute TfW or 90+-minute Altrincham ones. Shame the can’t do that all the time. It’s often quicker to drive, even with the Manchester traffic.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

I remember the late great F.S. Trueman on Test Match Special referring to the passage of the "Chester Flyer" through what was then Warwick Road station, adjacent to Old Trafford cricket ground. The good people of mid Cheshire must yearn for the direct railway services of old.

 

[Eccles1983]

The Leeds train has done it in about 45 minutes before. Massive improvement on the 70-minute TfW or 90+-minute Altrincham ones. Shame the can’t do that all the time. It’s often quicker to drive, even with the Manchester traffic.

Try that between the hours of 0630-0930 and 1430-1900.

Not a chance you are getting to central Manchester in 70 mins from Chester. I know this from painful experience on umpteen occasions.

From the M56 airport area or M62 Salford area you are lucky to clear it in 30-45 mins alone.

Even the Altrincham line is nearly always quicker than road.

 

[Allwinter_Kit]

True. But the good folk of Trafford probably enjoy having a tram every 6 minutes rather a few trains a day so swings and roundabouts...

 

[markem41]

True. But the good folk of Trafford probably enjoy having a tram every 6 minutes rather a few trains a day so swings and roundabouts...

Although you can't physically get on a tram in peak hours! Much better with three proper size coaches.

 

[LOL The Irony]

I know, instead of increasing the line speed around Hale, reinstate the double track between Edgely & Skelton junctions to allow the 2tph we've been promised for almost 3 years to operate.

 

[markem41]

I remember the late great F.S. Trueman on Test Match Special referring to the passage of the "Chester Flyer" through what was then Warwick Road station, adjacent to Old Trafford cricket ground. The good people of mid Cheshire must yearn for the direct railway services of old.

How times change! No trains, Metrolink, Warwick Road Station now Old Trafford, no subway anymore, Old Trafford station now Trafford Bar, Warwick Road now Brian Statham Way, (light) rail connection to Chorlton again.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

How times change! No trains, Metrolink, Warwick Road Station now Old Trafford, no subway anymore, Old Trafford station now Trafford Bar, Warwick Road now Brian Statham Way, (light) rail connection to Chorlton again.

Worse still, I can't get my head round the pitch being oriented north-south rather than east-west!

 

[Greybeard33]

I know, instead of increasing the line speed around Hale, reinstate the double track between Edgely & Skelton junctions to allow the 2tph we've been promised for almost 3 years to operate.

How would redoubling through Cheadle help? The single track can easily cope with 2tphpd, and already does in the morning and evening peaks.

The excuses proffered for postponement of the 2tph all day have been the lack of WCML paths between Piccadilly and Edgeley and the need for safety improvements at the six user worked crossings between Hale and Mickle Trafford.

 

[jizzer]

The 20 mph is a TSR. Between Ashley an Hale which has been on for ages.

 

[absolutelymilk]

http://www.railtechnologymagazine.com/Rail-News/mid-cheshire-line-rail-upgrade

As part of the Great North Rail Project, old sleepers, railway stone and rail were replaced and upgraded with modern equivalents through Hale, allowing the current 20mph limit on trains to be increased up to 60mph.

This is over a 1km stretch of track, so saving maybe a couple of minutes, depending on where exactly the track is (near Hale station?) and what the speed limits are either side.

 

[krus_aragon]

http://www.railtechnologymagazine.com/Rail-News/mid-cheshire-line-rail-upgrade

This is over a 1km stretch of track, so saving maybe a couple of minutes, depending on where exactly the track is (near Hale station?) and what the speed limits are either side.

Here's what's currently in the Sectional Appendix (on Network Rail's site):

It appears that they're referring to the 20/50mph differential speed limit between Hale and Ashley.

 

[cle]

The 2tph limit is a pain, but 2 car services should not be running from Stockport into Manchester. We are at that level of finite capacity, so if they can be guaranteed for 4 cars, extend. Otherwise, a waste.

On the other hand, I think there should be a higher tph, at least to Alty (with no tram penalty) or to Stockport. Navvy Road will always be an issue, even if Cheadle is doubled (useful if stations are added, and that stretch is so slow!)

 

[martin2345uk]

Here's what's currently in the Sectional Appendix (on Network Rail's site):
View attachment 67442
It appears that they're referring to the 20/50mph differential speed limit between Hale and Ashley.

Not sure about that as that limit remains in place.

 

[krus_aragon]

Not sure about that as that limit remains in place.

The only other possibility I see would be Hale to Altrincham, but that's shown as 25mph, not the 20 quoted.

 

[martin2345uk]

Someone mentioned upthread it was a long-standing TSR that was removed as part of this work.

 

[Ships]

The 20 mph is a TSR. Between Ashley an Hale which has been on for ages.

Ding ding we have a winner.

There has been a 30mph TSR on for some time with it being reduced to 20moh more recently. This was caused by a previous track lower to give the route the published gauge clearance to allow container traffic to divert through here. The drainage was never lowered and a sump was left around the underbridge. This lead to increasingly poor track quality to the point where it had to be renewed (the work mentioned here). I'm not sure where the 1km comes from, the renewal was about 500 yards.