Amsterdam Eurostar

[najaB]

Whilst it's fine and dandy to see the Eurostar service to Amsterdam. What ever happened to the extension to the Scottish Capital Edinburgh.

With the UK outside Schengen it was always going to be problematic (who was going to fund border checks at intermediate stations) and now that we're leaving the EU it makes even less sense.

 

[MisterT]

Ah cool so unlikely to happen even in the future? I guess those two stops should knock some journey time off maybe a good bit under 4 hours now?

Also can it do 200 miles per hour on Dutch railway lines too?

Maximum allowed speed on the Dutch High Speed Line is 300 km/h / ~187 mph.
I don't know about the journey times, but I doubt that omitting those two stops will allow for a significant reduced journey time.

 

[Gadget88]

Any ideas when direct tickets may go on sale? You can book upto March now so surely by April bookings they will know?

 

[Please Explain]

Unlikely. Signage in Brussels is bi-lingual in French and Flemish (which is very similar to Dutch)so if that logic applied St Pancras would be tri-lingual already. Announcements on Brussels Eurostars are in all three languages.

Nederlands! And they are the same language!! -Heer Groningen, MisterT en AlexNL can confirm this I'm sure?!

 

[johnnychips]

Nederlands! And their the same language!! -Heer Groningen, MisterT en AlexNL can confirm this I'm sure?!

There is a common misconception that Belgian people in the northern areas of the country speak a language called 'Flemish' and those in the South speak French. If you ask someone from Flanders in Belgium what language they speak, they will always answer 'Dutch'. Of course they may speak a dialect - and there are many distinctive ones - to a greater or lesser degree. But there is no such language as 'Flemish'.

 

[Please Explain]

There is a common misconception that Belgian people in the northern areas of the country speak a language called 'Flemish' and those in the South speak French. If you ask someone from Flanders in Belgium what language they speak, they will always answer 'Dutch'. Of course they may speak a dialect - and there are many distinctive ones - to a greater or lesser degree. But there is no such language as 'Flemish'.

Ja, bedankt!

 

[Groningen]

Between Vlaams (Flemish) and Nederlands (Dutch) there are not that many different words for the same thing. As a Northern of the NL i have more with Germany. In travel i see not much of problem in understanding.

There are a lot of them (E - V - NL):
French fries - friet (also south NL) - patat
Sellout - solden - uitverkoop
Deposit money (for re-use bottles) - leeggoed - statiegeld
In the train - op de trein - in de trein
train is cancelled - trein is afgeschaft - trein is uitgevallen/geannuleerd/rijdt niet
Speedcamera - vallende ster - flitspaal
Newspaper - gazet - krant

There was a discussion about the word: untill. In Belgium if you say valid untill a certain date, that date is included. In NL not.

 

[MarcVD]

There is also in Belgian Flanders a clear tendency to protect the language against intrusion from foreign words, and this much more than in the Netherlands. When speaking, for example, about a tape recorder, Dutch people will most probably use that English name, while in Flanders the noun "bandopnemer" will be used. But otherwise yes, there is nowadays no more difference between Flemish and Dutch than, say, between the English spoken in England and Scotland. There have been in the past, though, when people were travelling much less than now and did not attend school for long. At those times each town had its own Flemish, and even between cities of east and west Flanders there were noticeable differences. But today it is all gone, just the accent can be a bit different.

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[Groningen]

Maybe the Dutch have words from the English language, but think that the Flemish language takes many more words from France. In the Netherlands the most common abbreviation (from France) is SVP for please.

 

[AlexNL]

There's no such thing as the Flemish "language": it is a dialect, just like Limburgs or Twents are dialects of the Dutch language. This can't be said about Frysk (Frysian) though, which is a language in its own right.

 

[Groningen]

Friesland can be compared to Catalonia in Spain, but it does not seek independence.

 

[edwin_m]

OK, there are lots of semantics around it and the Wikipedia page contains a lot of detail too about the various dialects spoken by the Flemish and Dutch. But my point was that Eurostar Brussels workings already serve somewhere where Dutch (or something equivalent to it) is an official language, and that hasn't prompted a need for tri-lingual signage at St Pancras. So running a couple of trains a day to another Dutch-speaking place won't change this.

 

[AlexNL]

Interesting to note is that Lille Flandres, which is wholly in France, does have bilingual signage. Announcements for trains to Belgium are done in French and Dutch.

 

[duncanp]

Interesting to note is that Lille Flandres, which is wholly in France, does have bilingual signage. Announcements for trains to Belgium are done in French and Dutch.

And when the train from Lille departs, the on train announcement are done:-

(a) In French only until the train crosses the border
(b) In French and then Dutch from the border until the first stop at Mouscron (in the French speaking part)
(c) In Dutch and then French after the train leaves Mouscron and crosses into the Dutch speaking part of Belgium.

Also on the train from Kortrijk to Ieper, the announcements are in Dutch only until the train arrives at Comines, which is in the French speaking part. After the train leaves Comines, the announcements revert to Dutch only.

 

[TheSeeker]

And when the train from Lille departs, the on train announcement are done:-

(a) In French only until the train crosses the border
(b) In French and then Dutch from the border until the first stop at Mouscron (in the French speaking part)
(c) In Dutch and then French after the train leaves Mouscron and crosses into the Dutch speaking part of Belgium.

Also on the train from Kortrijk to Ieper, the announcements are in Dutch only until the train arrives at Comines, which is in the French speaking part. After the train leaves Comines, the announcements revert to Dutch only.

A similar thing happens on my commute from Braine l'Alleud to Antwerp. In Wallonie we get only French, in Brussels French and Dutch and then in Flanders only Dutch. Several times the train has been cancelled in Mechelen or Antwerpen Berchem, the announcement only in Dutch and all us non-Dutch speakers sit there wondering what is happening until the conductor comes along. I once asked what would happen if there was a fire or some other emergency.

 

[Quakkerillo]

A similar thing happens on my commute from Braine l'Alleud to Antwerp. In Wallonie we get only French, in Brussels French and Dutch and then in Flanders only Dutch. Several times the train has been cancelled in Mechelen or Antwerpen Berchem, the announcement only in Dutch and all us non-Dutch speakers sit there wondering what is happening until the conductor comes along. I once asked what would happen if there was a fire or some other emergency.

We have some very weird language laws and regulations here in Belgium. I'm Dutch and still look at many things over here with a 'why' attitude. The only trains where they'll speak French in Flanders, and Dutch in Wallonia are the ICE, Thalys, Eurostar, the Hasselt - Liège/Luik - Maastricht (NL), and the Brussels - Amsterdam train.

On missing out Schiphol and Antwerp; I think these aren't too bad. Schiphol has frequent enough services to Amsterdam, and I'm sure they'll think of some nice inclusive through ticketing for Schiphol to London.
Antwerp on the other hand has got 6 trains per hour to Brussels South-Midi, and people are well using these currently to take the Eurostar. Compared to Rotterdam, Amsterdam, and Lille, I also think that the 'catchment area' of Antwerp would be quite a bit smaller than that of the other places.

 

[Bald Rick]

A similar thing happens on my commute from Braine l'Alleud to Antwerp. In Wallonie we get only French, in Brussels French and Dutch and then in Flanders only Dutch. Several times the train has been cancelled in Mechelen or Antwerpen Berchem, the announcement only in Dutch and all us non-Dutch speakers sit there wondering what is happening until the conductor comes along. I once asked what would happen if there was a fire or some other emergency.

Way OT, but the same is planned for Crossrail. Trains departing Maidenhead will have auto announcements in an accent that is 'distinctly home counties'; then when they get to Whitechapel all the announcements will start with "Awight me ol' Chinas, get aaat 'ere for a proper Ruby"

 

[edwin_m]

Way OT, but the same is planned for Crossrail. Trains departing Maidenhead will have auto announcements in an accent that is 'distinctly home counties'; then when they get to Whitechapel all the announcements will start with "Awight me ol' Chinas, get aaat 'ere for a proper Ruby"

That'll confuse Dutch (or Flemish) visitors...

 

[Gadget88]

I emailed Euro star and they are awaiting timetables no info yet but did hope to have more information later this year.

 

[Please Explain]

A similar thing happens on my commute from Braine l'Alleud to Antwerp. In Wallonie we get only French, in Brussels French and Dutch and then in Flanders only Dutch. Several times the train has been cancelled in Mechelen or Antwerpen Berchem, the announcement only in Dutch and all us non-Dutch speakers sit there wondering what is happening until the conductor comes along. I once asked what would happen if there was a fire or some other emergency.

I'd love to know what the treinbegeleider's response was to that?!

Surely if the train was on fire, he'd pull the pass-com -(or whatever you call it over there in dear old Noble Belgique!), and start screaming: "EVACUEZ LE TRAIN!!!" Into the PA repeatedly, -(providing the train was in a safe place to do so of course!). Unlike over here, where the PAX would be left to fend for themselves on our ever increasing DOO -(Driver Only Operation), God's Terrible Railway! ??????

On a side note, I'm very pleased there is so many Belgian and Dutch members on here with an interest in the UK scene who are able to share your knowledge of your railways here with us.
I thought you were our only Belgian poster here, MarcVD! -(I did forget to mention you in my original post regarding the language issue! Je suis désolé monsieur, it is your country after al! )
For a regular visitor to the BeNeLux with an interest in your Spoorwegen / Chemin de fer, its great to have you all posting here!

 

[MarcVD]

On a side note, I'm very pleased there is so many Belgian and Dutch members on here with an interest in the UK scene who are able to share your knowledge of your railways here with us.
I thought you were our only Belgian poster here, MarcVD! -(I did forget to mention you in my original post regarding the language issue! Je suis désolé monsieur, it is your country after al!

Although I admit that I frequent only this international section and not the others. I am interested in railways everywhere around the world and there are not that many places on internet where this subject is discussed. And here it is good for English language practice too. Skyscrapercity is one other good place.


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[dutchflyer]

We have some very weird language laws and regulations here in Belgium. I'm Dutch and still look at many things over here with a 'why' attitude. The only trains where they'll speak French in Flanders, and Dutch in Wallonia are the ICE, Thalys, Eurostar, the Hasselt - Liège/Luik - Maastricht (NL), and the Brussels - Amsterdam train.
.

Thats after many years of extensive struggle, in fact as I remember in BRU they have to change even the order in which they speak FR or NL by the year, or for a while it was NL first for going north and FR first for going South. But that long time commuters still would not understand the Vlaams is quite incomprehensible to me, besides that there wont be that many either.
The accident on the Leuven-Waver line, if I remember well, was apparently the result of either traindriver or signal-house attendant not speaking enough of the other language.
There are several distinguished legal levels in BE for how able one has to speak the other language, also for people working on trains. These also depend on the area.

 

[Gadget88]

I just say I’m excited about this service now lots of updates on Twitter.

The test run trains still have the new seat covers on plus the trains have ‘NL’ below the trains now.

 

[Groningen]

Remember that Eupen is in a German speaking part of Belgium. And it has a trainstation. Hourly there is a train from Eupen to Oostende and v.v. going German, French and Dutch language areas.

 

[MarcVD]

The accident on the Leuven-Waver line, if I remember well, was apparently the result of either traindriver or signal-house attendant not speaking enough of the other language.

The root cause of the accident is a signal to danger that was not observed.

But there were indeed tentatives to stop the disaster by blocking the incoming train or shutting down the power, that failed because people on the phone could not understand each other.


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[Gadget88]

https://gopressmobility.be/2017/05/24/eurostar-london-brussels-amsterdam-wont-stop-antwerp/

Earlier in this topic someone said it wouldn’t stop at Antwerp but the above article says they hope in the future to have a stop there which would be good news.

 

[TheSeeker]

https://gopressmobility.be/2017/05/24/eurostar-london-brussels-amsterdam-wont-stop-antwerp/

Earlier in this topic someone said it wouldn’t stop at Antwerp but the above article says they hope in the future to have a stop there which would be good news.

Platforms 22 and 23 at Antwerp that the Thalys uses are already blocked off with temporary metal fencing. Presumably just as a security measure for Thalys passengers, there are no passport or ID checks that I've seen. It's all a bit awkward as domestic services and the International train Brussels-Amsterdam also use those platforms.

 

[33Hz]

Is it just me or have the through Eurostar - Thalys tickets disappeared?

 

[Quakkerillo]

Is it just me or have the through Eurostar - Thalys tickets disappeared?

Just you? I've just checked on ns international, and the tickets there are still offered from as cheap as €59.

 

[bspahh]

Remember that Eupen is in a German speaking part of Belgium. And it has a trainstation. Hourly there is a train from Eupen to Oostende and v.v. going German, French and Dutch language areas.

I once drove to Belgium and read up in an AA handbook beforehand. There was a table with some useful phrases in French, Flemish and German. I got there, and the sign at the petrol station was for "unleaded" petrol, rather than sans plomb, loodvril or bleifrei.