Amsterdam Eurostar

[CMS]

Excellent news - but the schedules seem to have padded out from 3h40 to 3h55. Why's that?

I believe there are long-term works in NL, which means increased journey times and some timetable amendments - I believe this is why the seasonal Thalys' are still not on sale yet. The timings have also been changed from St Pancras, I would imagine, to improve the customer flow as from experience when there is an xx01 to Paris followed by and xx04 to Brussels, it's chaos. Perhaps this has lead to requiring slack in the timetable further down the route (particularly Eurotunnel slots, Line 0 in Brussels and platform occupation at Amsterdam).

An extra stop or two somewhere? Ashford, Calais, Lille, Antwerp?

From what I can see, no, it's actually worse. The biggest loser is Lille as it loses yet another stop which means there is a 4 hour gap and a 3 hour gap on most days (also depends if the 9074 to Disney is running). Ebbsfleet gains a later departure as 9128's removed stop moves to 9140. Also, RTT does not agree with the Eurostar website on the daily Ashford-Lille/Brussels trains. RTT claims the evening return is still 9149 but E* is selling it as 9153, with no return on Fridays. So, we'll have to wait for the proper timetable to properly judge, but it would seem that the core is suffering for potential future growth in Amsterdam.

I must say, it is brave to launch the new direct train given the political climate...

 

[MarcVD]

I thought France requires KVB which continuously monitors the maximum speed and will apply the brakes if speeds aren’t reduced to for speed reductions and adverse signals?

Yes but it was added much later than the 200 km/h in France. And it's not a continuous signalling system like tvm430 or ETCS, but a punctual system using balises, like TBL in Belgium. KVB is not used on high speed lines.

 

[Bungle965]

Something I note from my Amsterdam trip was that when I arrived, I took a couple of photos and then went to leave through the barriers at the station, only to find that there was nowhere to scan my M-Ticket from Eurostar. I did attempt to scan it on the barriers to no success however.
Is there normally someone there to open up the barriers or was it simply be not knowing how to operate the gates?
Sam

 

[AlexNL]

The gatelines in the Netherlands do not have separate scanners for mobile or printed tickets, they have been integrated with the chipcard readers. See this video:

If you have a ticket or M-ticket which does not have a QR code somewhere, you should approach a member of staff or use the Info button on the totems near the gateline. Staff will provide you a keycard to open the gates, when using the Info button the gate will be opened remotely.

 

[Bungle965]

The gatelines in the Netherlands do not have separate scanners for mobile or printed tickets, they have been integrated with the chipcard readers. See this video:

If you have a ticket or M-ticket which does not have a QR code somewhere, you should approach a member of staff or use the Info button on the totems near the gateline. Staff will provide you a keycard to open the gates, when using the Info button the gate will be opened remotely.

Yes, thinking about it I did actually have a paper copy of the ticket in my bag which did have the QR code which would read it. However I ended up pressing the information button along with another gentleman and eventually got let through the gates.
Cheers for clearing this up though.
Sam

 

[AlexNL]

One thing to note: if your phone has NFC turned on and you're traveling on an M-ticket, disable NFC before presenting your phone to the reader. The integrated readers prioritise NFC/RFID over barcodes, and will reject your phone as they doesn't recognise it. When that happens, they won't try to read the barcode on the screen.

I experienced this after traveling home from Copenhagen using an M-ticket in the Deutsche Bahn app.

 

[jon0844]

Let us first see how the Brexit affects traintravel to Paris and Brussel/Amsterdam.

Eurostar will be launching their new St Pancras to Folkestone service then.

 

[Gadget88]

An extra stop or two somewhere? Ashford, Calais, Lille, Antwerp?

Any confirmation what ones they will stop at yet? I’m guessing not Antwerp could be Amsterdam airport?

 

[CMS]

Any confirmation what ones they will stop at yet? I’m guessing not Antwerp could be Amsterdam airport?

There won’t be any additional stops from what I can deduce, for now at least. All of the current E* Amsterdam services already are timed to allow for a call at Antwerp anyway (they “pause” there if on-time at the moment). These stops often show incorrectly as actual stops on the NS app for example.

As I have mentioned earlier, the big loser is Lille. Yet, I’ve also looked at the timings more closely and it would appear that Brussels kind of loses too, as at present Amsterdam trains depart London and are followed 20-30 mins later by a Brussels train, meaning that passengers to Brussels get there much quicker on the first than the second train. Whereas in this timetable change, the Amsterdam trains now go after the Brussels train, arriving just 7 or so minutes after an incoming terminating train. Given that Eurostar don’t sell journeys involving 2 Eurostars (e.g. Ebbsfleet to Rotterdam is only sold as E* + Thalys not E* + E*), and 7 mins isn’t the biggest connection window - it’s not great.

 

[williamn]

Does the 08.31 to Amsterdam stop in Brussels? I need a one way ticket to Brussels on 7 Dec. The cheapest is around £80 very early in the morning. The 08.31 is only £35 to Amsterdam, but is not shown as an option when selecting Brussels as a destination. If it does stop there is there anything to stop me buying an Amsterdam ticket and getting off at Brussels?

 

[AlexNL]

Yes, the 08:31 stops at Brussels.

You can get off if you like, there's nothing preventing you from doing so. Brussel doesn't have gates, and while the Netherlands does the gates are not used for fare checking.

 

[gord]

Does the 08.31 to Amsterdam stop in Brussels? I need a one way ticket to Brussels on 7 Dec. The cheapest is around £80 very early in the morning. The 08.31 is only £35 to Amsterdam, but is not shown as an option when selecting Brussels as a destination. If it does stop there is there anything to stop me buying an Amsterdam ticket and getting off at Brussels?

When we went from London to Amsterdam in August on the 08:31, the staff in Standard Premier were quite keen to find out what passenger's final destinations were by checking tickets. They wanted to make sure those alighting at Brussels knew there wasn't much time to alight the train and wanted to see if any assistance was needed. Whether this attention to detail is carried out in Standard I'm not sure. Also, there is a crew change at Brussels too so they also alighted the train after helping passengers off.

 

[33Hz]

There will be a third Amsterdam service added from April 1st 2019. The morning train will now leave London at 7:16 instead of 8:31 and the evening train will leave at 17:16 instead of 17:31.

All services will take 15 to 30 minutes longer.

 

[Ianno87]

Interesting... the 1716 is smack on top of the 1716 St. Pancras-Maidstone West Javelin departure... unless that moves to 1712 and goes inside at Stratford International.

 

[AlexNL]

the 1716 St. Pancras-Maidstone West Javelin departure... unless that moves to 1712 and goes inside at Stratford International.

The schedules are already available on RTT, and it looks like that's what's going to happen.

1T90 1712 SE St Pancras International to Maidstone West
9I50 1716 ES St Pancras International to Amsterdam C.S.

The SE service goes first, the Eurostar follows it at block distance. After Ebbsfleet the Eurostar will continue towards HS1, catching up the 1J50 1707 SE St Pancras International to Dover Priory around Ashford.

 

[Ianno87]

The schedules are already available on RTT, and it looks like that's what's going to happen.

1T90 1712 SE St Pancras International to Maidstone West
9I50 1716 ES St Pancras International to Amsterdam C.S.

The SE service goes first, the Eurostar follows it at block distance.

What a good guess!

 

[33Hz]

Can anyone work out what is the source of the 15+ minutes delay? Are they making an additional stop in Belgium?

 

[CMS]

Can anyone work out what is the source of the 15+ minutes delay? Are they making an additional stop in Belgium?

After reviewing some public booking systems, I seem to have to have found the answer - no.

The first and third departures see their dwell times at Brussels go from 4 to 10 minutes and either gain 8 mins pathing time in France or have been allocated the time for a stop in Lille (which is 8 mins anyway) and Eurostar has chosen not to open them to sale yet (perhaps they are negotiating these as replacements for the two rerouted Thalys with authorities?). Hence the +14mins.

The second departure actually retains the current pathway of train 9126 for its duration in France meaning there is a booked call at Lille at 1326-1330, meaning a slower Eurotunnel-Brussels journey. It then has a dwell time of 17 minutes, presumably because if it left sooner it would catch up the preceding SNCB train on Line 0 or before Mechelen. If it left later, it would have to non-stop Lille to get the best pathway from Brussels to the NL border, which would leave a 4h03 gap in service between London and Lille on weekdays. The Lille stop is not for sale yet on this train, but I assume that’s because E* are applying their 35 day rule for non-NL tickets on Amsterdam trains as they currently do now (http://eurostar4agents.com/home-page-boxes/seating-on-the-brussels-and-amsterdam-route). This explains the longer journey.

Again, just as a reminder, there is a timed stop in Antwerp but it is not an operational/commercial call at present.

I don’t foresee any additional stops on this service as NS have mentioned how hard they are lobbying for a daily train which non-stops France and Belgium to get Amsterdam down to around 3h journey time (personally, I think that’s greedy and unnecessary but I’m not the target market or do I travel to NL often!).

 

[wds]

I'm sorry if this has been addressed elsewhere, but does anyone with a knowledge of these things know why Eurostar are so determined that no Amsterdam service will stop at Ashford (or, indeed, Ebbsfleet)? As an Ashford local who uses Eurostar quite a bit, I've seen the frequency of services decline quite a bit and, despite the latest investment in signalling, there's a bit of anxiety that there might a long term plan to ditch the Kent stops. Presumably an extra stop only adds 10 mins or so to the run? There always seems to be a decent crowd getting on and off at these stops.

 

[cle]

Amsterdam is absolute city to city competiton with flights. The headline journey time is everything. Once frequency expands, I'd expect more stops to creep in, as well as a token fast for the marketing story.

 

[wds]

Amsterdam is absolute city to city competiton with flights. The headline journey time is everything. Once frequency expands, I'd expect more stops to creep in, as well as a token fast for the marketing story.

Thanks for the response. I was hoping the recently announced extra service would stop in Kent but it's not happening: https://www.kentonline.co.uk/kent/news/eurostar-to-run-more-trains-to-amsterdam-192174/

I've just returned from Amsterdam today. Train was pretty much full both ways.

 

[leshuttle]

Thanks for the response. I was hoping the recently announced extra service would stop in Kent but it's not happening: https://www.kentonline.co.uk/kent/news/eurostar-to-run-more-trains-to-amsterdam-192174/

I've just returned from Amsterdam today. Train was pretty much full both ways.

With regard to Ashford it's not, or wasn't until very recently, clear whether the signalling issues there are 100% resolved for the 374s (which are the only compatible trains to go to the Netherlands) - that's perhaps one further reason why not? Also for Ashford there's perhaps the complication of Eurostar needing to find extra paths over NR infrastructure alongside Southeastern?

 

[Alfie1014]

There will be a third Amsterdam service added from April 1st 2019. The morning train will now leave London at 7:16 instead of 8:31 and the evening train will leave at 17:16 instead of 17:31.

All services will take 15 to 30 minutes longer.

View attachment 53660

The mid morning train appears to have disappeared from Eurostar’s booking engine, now only offering the 07:16 and 17:16 services. Strangely the useful (for onward German connections) 10:58 St Pancras to Brussels service has also disappeared from 1st April too, which sort of suggested that the 11:16 would have substituted!

I’m travelling to Brussels on 1st December and couldn’t get on the 08:57 so booked on the 06:57 but the 08:31 to Amsterdam wasn’t offered as an option either? Does seem that ES are not helping themselves or their passengers with the randomness of their booking engine at the moment.

 

[Groningen]

As if Dutch nationals would like to see Ashford.

 

[AlexNL]

As if Dutch nationals would like to see Ashford.

Maybe not Ashford itself, but the station could serve as a gateway to Kent.

 

[cle]

Nobody wants to see Ebbsfleet either!

I can see this becoming so popular. Amsterdam is booming (as with Dublin, in Brexit anticipation) - and I can easily see this going up to 8 trains a day. Especially if due to Brexit, Brussels business traffic goes down, which it will inevitably. And they'd get more value out of the permanent infrastructure - if they can have more platform access, I guess!

Any info on how Rotterdam is doing? Unilever staying split between there and London now must be a good thing for this route.

 

[30907]

I think headline time to Amsterdam

The mid morning train appears to have disappeared from Eurostar’s booking engine, now only offering the 07:16 and 17:16 services. Strangely the useful (for onward German connections) 10:58 St Pancras to Brussels service has also disappeared from 1st April too, which sort of suggested that the 11:16 would have substituted

And the 0647 Brussels is back along with 0716 Amsterdam, which seems equally odd. But in any case it has been announced officially so...

 

[Bald Rick]

I guess we’ll know when this is successful when the airlines start quietly taking flights out of their schedules. Hasn’t happened yet, but then Eurostar have captured the equivalent of about 2 return flights a day of the London - Amsterdam air market, or about 3%.

Raising the frequency will definitely help, as will sorting the return immigration arrangements. I’d say 6 a day each way at roughly 2h intervals would take 20-30% of the air market.

 

[thaitransit]

Eurostar will be launching their new St Pancras to Folkestone service then.

It will most likly still run but with two on route border checkpoint stops one on eachside of the channel adding a good 2 hours to the trip.

 

[alex397]

Maybe not Ashford itself, but the station could serve as a gateway to Kent.

Including Canterbury, just 16-22 minutes from Ashford, a location very popular with foreign tourists, who mostly come by car or coach across the channel for a day trip. People could use Ashford (a little bit) like Brussels with its connections to Ghent, Bruges etc.

You often see plenty of French/Belgian/Dutch cars parked in the car parks, and the coach park can often be overflowing with foreign coaches. Eurostar could tap into this (admittedly relatively small) market if they stopped at Ashford.