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Amsterdam Eurostar
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Makes sense - since there's going to be changes to the freedom of movement, they'll need to do more strict passport checks at the European stations. At the moment just waving an EU-member state passport is enough, now there may be visa checks, etc.
Goldfish62
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Unfortunately I'll be pleasantly surprised if the Amsterdam route has a long term future post-Brexit.
Of course it will. UK-EU travel is going to get more difficult and less attractive. It'll be just as much hassle for EU citizens to go to (for example) Thailand, and the weather will be better there too!
StephenHunter
Established Member
Considering that a third train is being added next year, they must think it won't be an issue. People were going on holiday to Europe before we joined the EEC after all.
gazthomas
Established Member
I took the train through to Amsterdam before Christmas and it was completely full, so the demand is definitely there. I just wish that in future it would be quick and easy to get through the formalities. That said, whether it's by plane, train or boat there will be the same overhead and I'm certain the Amsterdam train's will be a long term success
It was a completely different world. Back then a long haul flight was something that cost the average persons a month's wage or more, right now I can book flights for a weekend in New York for £233. There's a whole generation who have never had to get a visa to visit another EU country - as a resident of Amsterdam, why go through the hassle of getting a UK visa and pay €200 return on a train when I can spend €250 and go to New York instead?
Shinkansenfan
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Is it much extra hassle to go to Thailand now (other than health coverage, but you should have insurance travelling here already)? You don't need a visa for a holiday in Thailand, and not wishing to turn this into a Brexit thread, the idea EU citizens should need one to visit the UK (and vice versa) is ridiculous - if it comes to pass the hordes of holidaymakers and the Spanish resorts should knock some sense into politicians by the summer.
I do think the impact might be bigger on Eurostar than on the large number of flights from the UK to Amsterdam because airports are set up for any extra checks necessary and people are more used to waiting there anyway. Though I'm surprised the train is viable against the scale of competition to begin with.
StephenHunter
Established Member
You still need the ESTA visa waiver for the US. Also, it is eight hours on a plane to New York, even without all the hassle at the airports.
It took me all of 15 minutes to get mine.
StephenHunter
Established Member
Exactly - which will be about the same length of time for the EU equivalent when it comes in 2021.
What we don't know yet is what EU nationals will have to do to enter the UK post-Brexit.
I don't think we needed to do this even before 1973 though did we? I don't agree with Brexit but this sort of thing makes a bad situation even worse from the POV of easy travel and the wish to expand Eurostar.
It's deeply sad that more stringent border bureaucracy is becoming fashionable again across the whole of the western world after a long period of increasing openness. I hope it's a transient thing and in the future the 2010s will be seen as a laughing stock decade,a backwards-thinking 1950s throwback era when most of the western world went a bit crazy...
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We have threads to discuss Brexit. I can see that there is some relevance to the future of this route but I can't help but feel that the last few posts on this issue have wandered rather far away from Eurostar's Amsterdam route and its future and fully onto a topic better suited to one of the existing threads.
Please use those threads if you wish to discuss travel, in general, to/from Europe post-Brexit. Any further such posts on this thread, unless a clear link is made to the services in question, are liable for deletion.
Please use those threads if you wish to discuss travel, in general, to/from Europe post-Brexit. Any further such posts on this thread, unless a clear link is made to the services in question, are liable for deletion.
I agree it's ridiculous, but it's what will be - UK citizens will need an ESTA equivalent to travel to the EU, we don't know yet what will be required in the other direction. Does anyone know if there will be UK Borders Agency staff at Amsterdam Centraal? Or will the checks be done on-train?
MisterT
Member
The border control facilities are already there in Amsterdam and Rotterdam (with the latter almost finished). The wait is for the agreement and what will happen after the Brexit.
I assumed that the checks would be done at Centraal. The Eurostar check-in building would appear to be large enough to house the security checks and immigration booths and the platform chosen could easily be made secure for international departures. It would be quite annoying if we ended up with a Brussels shuffle on a route that is supposed to have three departures per day!
So I guess boarding only at Rotterdam?
MisterT
Member
The train is split in two parts. The front part can be used to Brussels (en that is the only part, the rear part is London only. So the rear part is completely checked, the front part is like the Thalys trains.
In Brussels, the front part will be emptied out, completely checked and after that the checked passengers from Brussels will be able to board.
In Brussels, the front part will be emptied out, completely checked and after that the checked passengers from Brussels will be able to board.
Mutant Lemming
Established Member
For me it is more the fares that are discouraging. It is it not that much more convenient than flying but costs up to twice as much for a choice of two one way departures against a near hourly service from the main airports.
Depends on when you're looking. Central London to the Center of Amsterdam for £37 in March vs £23 on easyJet on the same day. Throw in a single ticket to Stansted and another from Schiphol to Amsterdam and the train is cheaper.
Exactly - people when making air vs rail fare comparisons often forget to take into account the cost of getting to and from the airport. Also given that the cheapest of air fares are often flights very early in the morning, you may often have to throw in the cost of an airport hotel as well!
Mutant Lemming
Established Member
There is the cost of getting to and from St.Pancras and adding Schipol to a day ticket for Amsterdam isn't that much more. Am sure you can find the odd example of the train being cheaper but overall the flights tend to be a lot less and at more convenient times.
I'm considering a direct city centre to city centre journey, so just point to point tickets.
I just picked a couple of dates at random in March and got the same.
From what I've seen, flights are slightly less (rather than a lot less) when you book in advance. You are right that they are much more frequent though.
Though, for some reason, "people when making air vs rail fare comparisons" never seem to add in the cost of getting to the departure station. Single fares don't come cheap, particularly into London. Furthermore, with a departure time of 08:16 from St. Pancras, some potential travellers might also need to stop in a hotel beforehand.
People making air vs rail fare comparisons really ought not to be comparing city-centre to city-centre (though that clearly makes the calculations easier), but origin to destination. Generally this is home to city-centre and reverse. Some people even find the airport a more convenient departure point, particularly those who actually have to go via an airport station to get to St. Pancras!
StephenHunter
Established Member
You still have the hassle with check-in and baggage reclaim though.
That's exactly why compare city centre to city centre - what origin to what destination? You might live right under the flight path and I might be 65km from the airport, and same at the other end. CC2CC allows an apples to apples comparison.
And the need to clear security (much tighter than the security at St Pancras) and sit around waiting at an airport where everything costs an arm and a leg. At St Pancras, you can chill nearby until 30 minutes before your train leaves. And once you're on the train, just settle in and relax.
I know not everyone will do it, but I'd pay a reasonable premium for the stress free train option over air if it's viable. It's why people pay for fast track and lounge access at an airport, which bumps up the price (either for the ticket or the extra upgrade cost - unless you're such a regular traveller that you have a silver/gold/premium card etc).
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