Amsterdam Eurostar

[RT4038]

Which is to facilitate the (usually) 4 runs a week of 9O57, the early evening arrival from Marne-la-Vallée–Chessy which has French Police aux Frontières checks before departure but which has no UK Border Force checks there, so checks are done on arrival.

This causes the Mitie security personnel at St. Pancras no end of grief as they have to segregate arriving uncleared passengers from those from other cleared trains arriving at similar times, and a nearly-full 373 still has the queue backing up onto the platform. They also have to search the platform after everyone gets off in case there are any clandestines waiting for the next train to arrive when they could mingle with cleared passengers.

(To pre-empt the question as to why Eurostar is willing to take the risk of having to return inadmissible passengers to France on this service, it is incredibly low-risk as materially all passengers are British (or at least British resident) families on short trips to Disneyland Paris.)

(To pre-empt the other question as to why there is no UK Border Force présence at Marne-la-Vallée–Chessy, with usually 4tpw it’s not cost-effective.)

(To pre-empt the other other question as to why this is not cost effective but presence at Moûtiers and Bourg-Saint-Maurice which has only 2tpw is cost effective, the 2tpw from these are on the one day, as opposed to the MWFSu usual service at Marne-la-Vallée–Chessy.)

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Quite.

 

[RT4038]

There's also been at least one case (a Chechen in Russia IIRC) where a bomber has just blown themselves up in the security queue. That probably causes more carnage than doing so on the train, at least on an intercity type where people are more spaced out.

Indeed. And like Eurostar it has the advantage of connecting cities that are large enough to generate enough business, and international enough to do so despite being in different countries, at around the 3hr travel time which is optimal for high speed rail. If the US ever gets its act together on high speed rail there are probably some crossing the Canadian border.

Good luck with the US border doing anything other than eliminating any high speed advantage........

 

[edwin_m]

(To pre-empt the other other question as to why this is not cost effective but presence at Moûtiers and Bourg-Saint-Maurice which has only 2tpw is cost effective, the 2tpw from these are on the one day, as opposed to the MWFSu usual service at Marne-la-Vallée–Chessy.)

I have another other other other question. Can't they just borrow some of the officers stationed in Paris for the Gare du Nord departures?

 

[DavidGrain]

I realised how busy StPancras can get the time I was on a train from Brussels when a Paris train overtook us while we stopped at Ebbsfleet. When we got to StPancras passengers were still getting off the Paris train across the platform.

 

[island]

I have another other other other question. Can't they just borrow some of the officers stationed in Paris for the Gare du Nord departures?

That one hadn’t occurred to me; I don’t see any immediate reason why not. I suppose it would rob GDN of officers at peak travel time (the Marne-la-Vallée–Chessy services depart around 17:00-18:00 time.)

 

[island]

Good luck with the US border doing anything other than eliminating any high speed advantage........

Well, the Amtrak Cascades service runs from Vancouver (BC) to Seattle and Portland several times a day, with US preclearance at Vancouver station. I’ve been on it a few times, though only the domestic bits. The Talgo rolling stock they use are built like tanks...

 

[jamesontheroad]

Well, the Amtrak Cascades service runs from Vancouver (BC) to Seattle and Portland several times a day, with US preclearance at Vancouver station. I’ve been on it a few times, though only the domestic bits. The Talgo rolling stock they use are built like tanks...

There are three passenger trains which cross the US/Canada border, and they all handle the customs and immigration differently.

The southbound Adirondack stops at the first (small, unmanned) station in US territory, and US Border officials board the train to conduct the checks. Northbound the Canadian authorities do the same, but at an unmarked halt.

The Maple Leaf (which is operated as a VIA Rail train north of Niagara Falls) has the checks done during the station stops at Niagara Falls (both the Canadian NF and the US NF in different directions, as I remember it).

The Cascades is the only one where the immigration procedures are handled in Vancouver before joining / after disembarking from the train.

 

[markymark2000]

Do we have an update yet on what is going on with the Amsterdam Eurostar? When will passengers be able to make the return journey on the Eurostar without the use of local trains.

Also, how much spare capacity does Eurostar have to potential improvements to frequencies etc? With the flightshaming on the rise and people trying to use more sustainable modes of transport, could/should Eurostar increase the frequencies on services.

 

[tasky]

Do we have an update yet on what is going on with the Amsterdam Eurostar? When will passengers be able to make the return journey on the Eurostar without the use of local trains.

Also, how much spare capacity does Eurostar have to potential improvements to frequencies etc? With the flightshaming on the rise and people trying to use more sustainable modes of transport, could/should Eurostar increase the frequencies on services.

It's currently three trains a day, that will rise to four when direct return services begin, and Eurostar has said they want to run a fifth service in 2021.

When there are five returns services a day that will be the equivalent of 25 Boeing 737s a day in both directions - pretty good capacity-wise.

Eurostar have said the direct return service will start from April and I believe they are taking bookings for it already.

 

[Struner]

The €* runs from Amsterdam & Rotterdam. You have to get off & back on the train in Brussel to clear UK immigration. Facilities for that are in place in both A’dam & R’dam. But it seems the UK still has to ratify the treaties to enable that. A fourth service is planned for May.

 

[markymark2000]

The €* runs from Amsterdam & Rotterdam. You have to get off & back on the train in Brussel to clear UK immigration. Facilities for that are in place in both A’dam & R’dam. But it seems the UK still has to ratify the treaties to enable that. A fourth service is planned for May.

I thought you had to get a normal local train to Brussels and then change onto the Eurostar.

It's a shame the UK is the one holding up the services.

It's really good to hear they are putting a 4th service on. I do wonder if Eurostar will expand to any more destinations.

 

[jfollows]

I was recently (on January 16th.) sent an email containing a link to https://pub.s7.exacttarget.com/pr3w...60e2230ceb3b7883df373226ef02b9bc21a8dbd57293e to "Receive our notification when the Amsterdam to London service launches".

So "not yet, but soon" or something like that.

 

[jfollows]

Eurostar have said the direct return service will start from April and I believe they are taking bookings for it already.

I just looked today (23rd. January) and Eurostar's web site offers journeys from Amsterdam to London until the end of April, all of which require a change in Brussels.

So perhaps they're hoping it will be possible to offer direct services from May 2020? But is that wishful or informed thinking?

 

[DavidGrain]

I just looked today (23rd. January) and Eurostar's web site offers journeys from Amsterdam to London until the end of April, all of which require a change in Brussels.

So perhaps they're hoping it will be possible to offer direct services from May 2020? But is that wishful or informed thinking?

I don't think Eurostar take bookings more than 3 months ahead so the May services will not be available for booking anyway.

 

[30907]

I don't think Eurostar take bookings more than 3 months ahead so the May services will not be available for booking anyway.

They book most services up to 180 days ahead.

 

[kevin_roche]

I just looked today (23rd. January) and Eurostar's web site offers journeys from Amsterdam to London until the end of April, all of which require a change in Brussels.

So perhaps they're hoping it will be possible to offer direct services from May 2020? But is that wishful or informed thinking?

I hope they have not given up on the idea of running direct trains now that the merger with Thalys is planned.

 

[Struner]

They book most services up to 180 days ahead.

Indeed, they do. But Amsterdam only up to May 17. With the fourth train supposed to start on (you guessed it) May 18.
So they don’t seem to know yet. A different scheme perhaps?

 

[cle]

From an infrastructure point of view, are the facilities at Rotterdam and Amsterdam ready?

And do the trains, waiting times pre-departure with 4 services per day add up to full-time workers being viable? How is that being done?

Are trains 4 and 5 both envisaged to be extensions of existing Brussels services, or new services (non-stop to Brussels?)

 

[Struner]

As mentioned upthread, the infrastructure in both A’dam & R’dam has been ready for quite a while now.
I have no idea how the UK police will handle it.

 

[Gadget88]

I wonder it they will ever do London to Amsterdam direct could knock half an hour off journey time perhaps one a day like the Flying Scotsman?

 

[Struner]

You mean no stops in Brussel & Amsterdam?

 

[Gadget88]

You mean no stops in Brussel & Amsterdam?

Skip Lille, Brussels and Rotterdam sure they could drop journey times down to 3 hours?

 

[Struner]

Don’t think they’ll skip R’dam. As it is, most potential customers in NL have easier connections to R’dam than to A’dam. Certainly timewise.

 

[Gadget88]

Don’t think they’ll skip R’dam. As it is, most potential customers in NL have easier connections to R’dam than to A’dam. Certainly timewise.

True but they could have one express train per day?

 

[Struner]

Would there be a market for that? Amsterdammers wanting to go to the UK by train plus foreigners wanting to go A’dam? & back of course. Not so sure about that.

 

[Gadget88]

Would there be a market for that? Amsterdammers wanting to go to the UK by train plus foreigners wanting to go A’dam? & back of course. Not so sure about that.

I mean direct from London only. If you could do it in 3 hours maybe hit the airline market more?

 

[Struner]

The trouble is, there are flights all day. So people wanting to use the train have to adjust their timing to the express. & no doubt it will be more expensive.

 

[kevin_roche]

I wonder it they will ever do London to Amsterdam direct could knock half an hour off journey time perhaps one a day like the Flying Scotsman?

A couple of years ago I took a train that went London - Rotterdam - Amsterdam.

Left London at 9am and was on the beach at Scheveningen by 1:30.

 

[AlexNL]

Rumours have it that the direct Amsterdam > London trains are planned to start on March 31, but that the treaty to make this happen is pending signatures.

Skipping Rotterdam would benefit nobody. There is no 'Rotterdam avoiding line' and Rotterdam itself doesn't have any tracks which allow through-running at high speeds (the entire station is a 40 km/h zone). So since you're crawling through Rotterdam anyway and since the Netherlands is not an Amsterdam-centric country, it makes sense to add in a commercial stop (alight only).

 

[island]

The €* runs from Amsterdam & Rotterdam. You have to get off & back on the train in Brussel to clear UK immigration. Facilities for that are in place in both A’dam & R’dam. But it seems the UK still has to ratify the treaties to enable that. A fourth service is planned for May.

I thought you had to get a normal local train to Brussels and then change onto the Eurostar.

You’re sort of both right.

If you punch the trip into the Eurostar website it will put you on a Thalys from Amsterdam to Brussels-Midi and you connect there onto a Eurostar.

If you put in AMS-BXL and BXL-STP separately the Eurostar-run service from AMS-BXL will show up, and just like over here, splitting tickets very often comes out cheaper.