Amsterdam Eurostar

[whhistle]

Hmm.

Can't see how this is really competitive compared with airlines, both on price and journey time (even taking into account security at airports).

 

[Jordeh]

Hmm.

Can't see how this is really competitive compared with airlines, both on price and journey time (even taking into account security at airports).

In respect to door-to-door journey times, it’s probably going to be close to competitive (although if your departure point or destination is close to an airport, perhaps not).

However, does it have to be competitive on both? It’s going to be a lot more productive for work that’s for sure, less of the hassle of getting on and off a plane etc and easier to work onboard. It’s also going to be a lot more pleasant experience for those who do not enjoy flying.

Many London-Scotland trains are also not competitive on price or journey times with air travel but are still well utilised.

 

[whhistle]

Good points.
I understand from a work point of view and I do enjoy train travel more.
I guess we'll see from how popular it becomes.

 

[33Hz]

Sounds like yesterday's test run didn't do so well on the return leg - broke down for over an hour at Hoofddorp. Hopefully that doesn't translate to a delay to the launch.

On a different but related note: If you log into Eurostar.com and tell it you are Dutch, you still get access to the "Any Dutch Station" fares. However, my Dutch isn't good enough to work out if these are not valid on Thalys. I suspect the answer is they are not, however they are cheap enough still to be interesting.

 

[BigCj34]

In respect to door-to-door journey times, it’s probably going to be close to competitive (although if your departure point or destination is close to an airport, perhaps not).

However, does it have to be competitive on both? It’s going to be a lot more productive for work that’s for sure, less of the hassle of getting on and off a plane etc and easier to work onboard. It’s also going to be a lot more pleasant experience for those who do not enjoy flying.

Many London-Scotland trains are also not competitive on price or journey times with air travel but are still well utilised.

The 4 hours 30 minutes London-Glasgow train provides certainly gives flying a good run for its money, and there are many advance tickets that compete with flying on price. The door to door journey time is probably an extra hour when taking the train, but a more relaxing one. I expect the Amsterdam Eurostar to be an hour slower than flying overall but a bit more relaxing.

 

[MisterT]

Sounds like yesterday's test run didn't do so well on the return leg - broke down for over an hour at Hoofddorp. Hopefully that doesn't translate to a delay to the launch.

On a different but related note: If you log into Eurostar.com and tell it you are Dutch, you still get access to the "Any Dutch Station" fares. However, my Dutch isn't good enough to work out if these are not valid on Thalys. I suspect the answer is they are not, however they are cheap enough still to be interesting.

It was just like the previous try. The run from London to Amsterdam went without issues (or better, without any delays), the return leg suffered from the same issues as before: the change from the Dutch ATB safety system to ETCS didn't happen as expected and the train was stopped by the safety system, which turned out to be exactly in the voltage change-over from 1.5 kV DC to 25 kV AC. Suffice to say that the VCO didn't contribute to a swift solution
It seems like Siemens has not been able to fix it yet, or it might be a problem with that specific train set.

 

[33Hz]

It was just like the previous try. The run from London to Amsterdam went without issues (or better, without any delays), the return leg suffered from the same issues as before: the change from the Dutch ATB safety system to ETCS didn't happen as expected and the train was stopped by the safety system, which turned out to be exactly in the voltage change-over from 1.5 kV DC to 25 kV AC. Suffice to say that the VCO didn't contribute to a swift solution
It seems like Siemens has not been able to fix it yet, or it might be a problem with that specific train set.

Yesterday they took a different unit I think, so it looks like a systematic problem.

 

[Julia]

It’s also going to be a lot more pleasant experience for those who do not enjoy flying.

And if you have delicate or valuable stuff in your baggage, it removes the significant chance of being damaged by a machine or a surly handler.

 

[AlexNL]

The scaffolding at Amsterdam is being taken down and the future Eurostar terminal building has revealed itself to the world for the first time:

Picture credits: Ton Boon, spokesperson NS International

 

[TheSeeker]

Will Thalys and Eurostar be in direct competition on the Brussels-Amsterdam route? Will we see price differences?

Maybe a more fundamental question, will tickets between intermediate stops be available? E.g. Lille-Amsterdam with Eurostar.

 

[bunnahabhain]

I would expect the Eurostar to run in with a similar fare as Thalys, if the first one is due from Brussel Midi to Amsterdam CS at 1050ish it also fills a 2hr gap in the service.

 

[MisterT]

The E320 has finally been approved for services in the Netherlands. Today was another training run, and this time it went well
Also the passenger information on the stations was tested today:

Picture (and some other pictures) by train manager Jo (https://twitter.com/TrainManagerJo/status/951477808659824640).

 

[33Hz]

Cool. Did they allow passengers to ride on the "Extra trein"?

 

[MisterT]

No, invited guests only.

 

[GingerSte]

Nice one. A few glasses of bubbly for the folks at Eurostar (once they've finished their duties, of course!)

 

[33Hz]

So this probably confirms the leaked timetable from over a year ago, where 16:48 is the time of the evening weekday departure, arriving into London at 19:57.

IMHO that's too early for the business market, especially given the need to get to get to Amsterdam Centraal from most of the business locations to the south of Amsterdam and the non-stopping at Schiphol. If they went 30 or 60 minutes later I think they would pick up a lot more custom. Instead they run the later train on Sunday night when departure time is perhaps less critical!

 

[AlexNL]

There's the matter of onward connections from London. Arriving into London at 19:57 means being able to get a connecting service from other termini (Euston, Paddington, Waterloo, and so on) around 20:30 - 21:00.

This means that people could get home somewhere around 22:00. If the Amsterdam afternoon departure would be an hour later, some people might not be able to get home anymore. Those people would then fly.

 

[Gadget88]

How many direct trains will they run in the future? I read only two of them can work to Amsterdam so this might limit future expansion?

 

[33Hz]

There's the matter of onward connections from London. Arriving into London at 19:57 means being able to get a connecting service from other termini (Euston, Paddington, Waterloo, and so on) around 20:30 - 21:00.

I am one of them. I regularly arrive on the last Eurostar from Brussels at 21:03 and am in Waterloo by 21:30 with an hour to get home. Still, I also see I am in the minority: I am pretty sure the majority of passengers are going to Greater London. Leaving early to satisfy a small minority of passengers but too early to capture the biggest flow seems a bit daft...

 

[jon0844]

If it becomes popular then they'll surely have to run more trains. Trains will compete best when there are a choice of trains to suit all needs, not just one or two a day.

But you have to start somewhere.

 

[AlexNL]

As far as I'm aware the e320's are all equal when it comes to where they can run.

Eurostar start with two trains a day, but it might be increased if there's enough demand.

 

[jon0844]

As far as I'm aware the e320's are all equal when it comes to where they can run.

Eurostar start with two trains a day, but it might be increased if there's enough demand.

I can't see how London alone couldn't have enough people wanting to go to Amsterdam to do a good leisure trade alone, let alone the business market and those outside Greater London.

 

[33Hz]

I can't see how London alone couldn't have enough people wanting to go to Amsterdam to do a good leisure trade alone, let alone the business market and those outside Greater London.

The Randstad city-region (consisting of Amsterdam, Rotterdam, The Hague and Utrecht) has a population of over 7 million, so the accessible market is almost as big as Paris.

 

[edwin_m]

The Randstad city-region (consisting of Amsterdam, Rotterdam, The Hague and Utrecht) has a population of over 7 million, so the accessible market is almost as big as Paris.

The longer journey time starts to make a difference here. Under 3hr centre to centre the train is likely to carry many more passenger than air, but once over 3hr the balance start to tilt. Randstad is also more dispersed, probably increasing the proportion of people who can more easily access a flight at Schipol more easily than Eurostar.

For that reason Eurostar probably see their local catchment as more Amsterdam itself than Randstad. This may explain the relatively early departure time of the evening train, mentioned above as too early for many business people who need to connect from somewhere outside Amsterdam. If they have to change at Amsterdam then for some of them it's probably just as easy to connect at Brussels into a later service.

 

[33Hz]

For that reason Eurostar probably see their local catchment as more Amsterdam itself than Randstad. This may explain the relatively early departure time of the evening train, mentioned above as too early for many business people who need to connect from somewhere outside Amsterdam.

I've even seen Amsterdam-based people saying this is too early, given the need for check in and the time it takes to get there, you are leaving the office / meeting before 4pm.

If they have to change at Amsterdam then for some of them it's probably just as easy to connect at Brussels into a later service.

Or go to Schiphol and fly.

 

[bspahh]

I've even seen Amsterdam-based people saying this is too early, given the need for check in and the time it takes to get there, you are leaving the office / meeting before 4pm.

It would be too early for me, and typically when I have been in Amsterdam for business, it has been at the Victoria hotel, the other side of the road from Amsterdam Central station. A 6pm departure would have been OK. Before 5pm is not.

 

[AlexNL]

I've even seen Amsterdam-based people saying this is too early, given the need for check in and the time it takes to get there, you are leaving the office / meeting before 4pm.

I don't think anyone is going to do a day return London - Amsterdam. You'd have too little time to actually be able to do something useful while there. People are likely to spend at least a night in a hotel, and then the departure time becomes somewhat less of an issue.

 

[Gadget88]

As far as I'm aware the e320's are all equal when it comes to where they can run.

Eurostar start with two trains a day, but it might be increased if there's enough demand.

I seen a post on Twitter a while back saying there’s only two with the extra dials or something for signaling that can work to Amsterdam. If that’s true it will limit expansion of services unless they can upgrade the other trains?

 

[matt_world2004]

They could name the service the flying dutchman

 

[GingerSte]

I seen a post on Twitter a while back saying there’s only two with the extra dials or something for signaling that can work to Amsterdam. If that’s true it will limit expansion of services unless they can upgrade the other trains?

They would need (at least) two sets every day, in order to provide the service. That doesn't account for any inspection/maintenance/repair regime. I would imagine that if there are currently only two suitable sets, this is only for testing and training purposes, and that more sets will be fitted with the necessary equipment.