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Amsterdam - London, no need to detrain

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AndrewNewens

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Since noone has come up with the current market share for Eurostar between London and Paris/Brussels I have emailed the Eurostar press office to ask the question. It was well over 50% some years ago.

Even taking out the enormous number of transit passengers to Schipol who are choosing onward flights with Air France/KLM, this is massive market for Eurostar to tap into.

Incidentally, I see they are running a 'footie special' to Lille quite soon. OK so its for the Rugby, but it's good to see Eurostar are at last seeking to win traffic outside their core service.

http://www.eurostar.com/uk-en/about.../dedicated-eurostar-service-for-football-fans
 
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Groningen

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The view on our dutch railway forum is that the train should not stop in Schiphol (change in Rotterdam) and Antwerpen (change in Brussel). All 6 tracks are heavily used. And still that 30 minutes customscontrol somewhere along the line. Where to do it?! It also seems that the train is too long for say Rotterdam.
 

Blamethrower

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The view on our dutch railway forum is that the train should not stop in Schiphol (change in Rotterdam) and Antwerpen (change in Brussel). All 6 tracks are heavily used. And still that 30 minutes customscontrol somewhere along the line. Where to do it?! It also seems that the train is too long for say Rotterdam.

Amsterdam would appear the only sensible option for customs, with the massive rebuild complete at Rotterdam one would've thought there would be somewhere they could fit something in there too.

Despite hsl zuid, all lines in between are heavily used as you say, I am also sceptical of any possible capacity improvements at the pinch points.

For the service to be a success, I would expect Rotterdam and Amsterdam centraal stations to be served in the Netherlands, but if thats not possible, and Brussels and Antwerpen are not possible then there would have to be some tie up with thalys at lille
 

AlexNL

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And reverse?

Reversal will never be a solution, these are high speed trains, not sprinters! :)

Hows about, convert the bays into through platforms, or maybe just 1 that is bi-directional?

It will be interesting to see if they are extensions of Brussels trains or perhaps they bypass the city entirely, connecting with Amsterdam services at Lille.

Why would reversal be a problem? The ICE that runs between Amsterdam and Frankfurt does that exact same thing at Cologne Hbf, and I have yet to meet the first person who complains about it. Reversal will only be a problem for people who have been bitten by the "I can't travel backwards" bug. Most passengers simply won't care.

Converting the Eurostar platforms into through platforms would mean tearing down part of the Pullman hotel (which is directly adjacent to the end of the platforms) as well as building a new bridge across the Boulevard de L'Europe - something which will probably displease the city a lot.

I don't think any cities will be skipped at all. Instead, I expect the train to serve Amsterdam, Schiphol, Rotterdam, Antwerp, Brussels and Lille before going through the channel tunnel. It would be nice if this can be done without de-training (and that is what is being aimed for) but that is not certain yet.
 

SHD

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Is it technically possible not to stop at Schiphol and Antwerpen Centraal?
 

Quakkerillo

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Is it technically possible not to stop at Schiphol and Antwerpen Centraal?

Of course it is. For Antwerp, they could even send the train around Centraal by using the east Ring. Schiphol has just 6 regular - busy - platforms through which it could just pass.
 

Blamethrower

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Why would reversal be a problem? The ICE that runs between Amsterdam and Frankfurt does that exact same thing at Cologne Hbf, and I have yet to meet the first person who complains about it. Reversal will only be a problem for people who have been bitten by the "I can't travel backwards" bug. Most passengers simply won't care.

Converting the Eurostar platforms into through platforms would mean tearing down part of the Pullman hotel (which is directly adjacent to the end of the platforms) as well as building a new bridge across the Boulevard de L'Europe - something which will probably displease the city a lot.

I don't think any cities will be skipped at all. Instead, I expect the train to serve Amsterdam, Schiphol, Rotterdam, Antwerp, Brussels and Lille before going through the channel tunnel. It would be nice if this can be done without de-training (and that is what is being aimed for) but that is not certain yet.

The reason no-one complains about it is due to the dwell time in the station. When the Amsterdam/Brussels ICEs arrive at Cologne, they seem to be there for about 10 - 15 minutes regardless of whether there is a reverse or not. With a dwell time like that, yes, a reversal is irrelevant.

However, going round Brussels and reversing into Zuid is NOT a satisfactory solution and will add lots of time onto the journey, making it less viable.

So demolishing a hotel and building a bridge would be the only issue for a through station at Zuid. Why would adding 2 extra tracks to an already huuuuugge bridge make any difference to Belgians?

And really, who cares? We're all passing through anyway :)
 
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SpacePhoenix

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Wasn't it mentioned in another thread that the UK Border Agency won't provide staff to do border/passport checks at any places in addition to the current ones?
 

jon0844

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Wasn't it mentioned in another thread that the UK Border Agency won't provide staff to do border/passport checks at any places in addition to the current ones?
They would if funded I imagine, so if this became a regular service then it would likely become financially viable for all concerned. The cost would be factored into the ticket price.

It would be/is a problem for more distant destinations that might only run a few trains a day.
 

Groningen

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For Antwerp, they could even send the train around Centraal by using the east Ring.

How much time would that add to the journey? At least 10 to 15 minutes.
 

Blamethrower

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They would if funded I imagine, so if this became a regular service then it would likely become financially viable for all concerned. The cost would be factored into the ticket price.

It would be/is a problem for more distant destinations that might only run a few trains a day.

Could that not be mitigated by border staff travelling on the outbound train and checking passports etc before people get on the returning trains?

Although that could only be done at the terminal (ie Amsterdam). There will have to be an expensive solution at all the other stations
 
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Chris125

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Sorry to be a party pooper but I find Rail Gazette's account of the launch event hard to believe, the International Rail Journal's take on it seems much more believable:

Eurostar says it would prefer immigration controls for London-bound services to be carried out at Amsterdam, although it currently seems likely that the existing arrangement used for the Marseille - London service will apply, with passengers having to disembark at Lille Europe station for 1h 15min for British passport checks.
 
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gordonthemoron

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For the service to be a success, I would expect Rotterdam and Amsterdam centraal stations to be served in the Netherlands, but if thats not possible, and Brussels and Antwerpen are not possible then there would have to be some tie up with thalys at lille

I don't think Thalys serve Lille
 

Groningen

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uoJ2lV2l.jpg


Whether it is photoshopped; false or true. It seems a E320 has been spotted by a member of our dutch railway forum. Do not know whether it is a late April 1st Fool Day joke.
 

MisterT

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It's true ;)
Tests are, from what I've heard, planned for the coming nights between Eindhoven and Venlo for 1500 volt and ATB train protection testing.
 
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AlexNL

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If you are linking to someone's photo, please include a link to where you found it!

In this case, the picture is from my camera and I'll post a bigger version here once I'm done importing and editing it. ;) here is the final version:


Eurostar e320, Nispen by Alex van Herwijnen, on Flickr


Eurostar e320, Nispen by Alex van Herwijnen, on Flickr


Eurostar e320, Essen by Alex van Herwijnen, on Flickr


Eurostar e320, Essen by Alex van Herwijnen, on Flickr

And here's some moving footage of the e320 set entering the country:
[youtube]GHPonbxlLvM[/youtube]
 
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hulabaloo

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It would have been moving footage if it didn't have that bloody awful music.

Seriously, if the train served Ebbsfleet and/or Ashford I'd be well up for using it - as long as the fares are not too extravagant.
 

Groningen

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It appears that passengers from the Netherlands go through customs in Brussel. There will be no inspection anywhere on dutch soil. Estimate is 15 to 30 minute to leave and board the train again.
 

gsnedders

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It appears that passengers from the Netherlands go through customs in Brussel. There will be no inspection anywhere on dutch soil. Estimate is 15 to 30 minute to leave and board the train again.

How is that so much quicker than the hour and a half at Lille?
 

philjo

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Presumably they have more scanners/staff available at Brussels than at Lille?

When I have checked in at Lille (from a TGV arrival) for Eurostar I seem to remember that there was only one baggage scanner in operation. Also there is not much space available at Lille so the flow of passengers would probably be quicker at Brussels. e.g. at Lille anyone with luggage would have to use the same pair of lifts to access the platform - it is a travelator at Brussels.
Would be better if they could check in passengers at Amsterdam then do the next pick up at Brussels
 
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Groningen

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Today the E320 is having a testrun from Rotterdam to Amsterdam.

ChnbDZdW0AArh_Y.jpg

Credit go to Stefan Verkerk!
 

contrex

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"TESTING of Eurostar's Siemens e320 Velaro (class 374) high-speed trains on the Dutch national network began on April 28 as the international operator prepares for the launch London - Amsterdam services.

Preliminary trial runs took place over the weekend of April 30/May 1, with the train operating over both the conventional network and HSL South.

Netherlands Railways (NS) is providing drivers for the test runs, which are being carried out on behalf of Siemens."

http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...o-on-test-in-the-netherlands.html?channel=523
 

Blamethrower

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"TESTING of Eurostar's Siemens e320 Velaro (class 374) high-speed trains on the Dutch national network began on April 28 as the international operator prepares for the launch London - Amsterdam services.

Preliminary trial runs took place over the weekend of April 30/May 1, with the train operating over both the conventional network and HSL South.

Netherlands Railways (NS) is providing drivers for the test runs, which are being carried out on behalf of Siemens."

http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...o-on-test-in-the-netherlands.html?channel=523

so it's happening, hurray!

But I think we at rail forums demand appropriate operational details :idea:
 

HowardGWR

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Would be better if they could check in passengers at Amsterdam then do the next pick up at Brussels

If they do their marketing properly, they could run non-stop (I mean non-call) between AMS and London. I suspect they won't though, as calling at Schiphol will be far too attractive. There is no room for immigration check facilities at Schiphol, as the station is a ghastly Birmingham New Street dungeon platform layout.
:(
 

Groningen

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This train is untill now more reliable than the Fyra! Hope it stays that way.
 

jon0844

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If they do their marketing properly, they could run non-stop (I mean non-call) between AMS and London. I suspect they won't though, as calling at Schiphol will be far too attractive. There is no room for immigration check facilities at Schiphol, as the station is a ghastly Birmingham New Street dungeon platform layout.
:(

Perhaps run some of them direct, possibly at a slight premium for the reduced time?

While some people will want to get to the airport to avoid our airport taxes, many will only want to go to Amsterdam and if you're trying to compete with air, you'll want fast journey times - not a service that just connects the UK to another airport!
 

dutchflyer

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Greetings-just this morning I saw a new type E* , nr 4713, standing at the east-end sidings of here, AMS-centraal, all shining+brand new. I also recall there were some recent reports about test-running of such a set on the Dutch rails. Thus certainly no 1st of april fools day. BTW-its mothers day here in NL today.
In total there must be some 50 daily flights AMS-any of 5(6? Southend now too) LON airport, of which (surprise, surprise) EZ=U2 is the main operator, except they do not fly into LHR-thats for KLM and BA. Nearly all such flites are on AB319/320, with some 180/188 seats. Such a Velaro can thus replace 2-3 full flites only (If I remember well, it has around 500 seats?). Air-transits in AMS are more for those coming off other provincial British airports. There will be quite a lot of transits at LHR and LGW though for people ending/starting in AMS.
Besides that there are 2 OUIbuses, 2 megabuses, 4-6 eurolines buses running all as coach, with 48-68 seats each. Thus one might say, that 1 such Velaro could replace all these diesel-fuming monsters. Highly doubt if €* could compete on price with any of them.
 

HowardGWR

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Agreed with replies, thanks. I think this market will indeed be as impressive as Paris. One would like to see competition though. I wonder if DB still fancies its chances?
 
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