Amtrak - Dining

[Iskra]

Hopefully, later this year I will be travelling on a couple of Amtrak routes. I’ve seen a few meals on youtube reviews and advice seems to be essentially to choose carefully.

The steak seems to be consistently highly rated, but beyond that what meals do forum members rate? And any to definitely avoid?

The routes I’m on are California Zephyr and Lake Shore Limited, but feel free to answer for any route or dining configuration as that may be useful for other members.

 

[S&CLER]

The breakfasts were usually pretty good when I was there (more than 25 years ago). French toast was a railroad speciality, as I recall.

 

[Flying Snail]

Only the long distance routes West of Chicago still have the proper prepared on board dining service.

The routes to the East including Lake Shore Limited just provide reheated microwave meals for sleeper passengers and the standard cafe car fare (also microwaved) for everyone. All the reports are that the included meals for sleeper passengers on these routes is pretty poor, even for zapped food.

 

[Iskra]

Only the long distance routes West of Chicago still have the proper prepared on board dining service.

The routes to the East including Lake Shore Limited just provide reheated microwave meals for sleeper passengers and the standard cafe car fare (also microwaved) for everyone. All the reports are that the included meals for sleeper passengers on these routes is pretty poor, even for zapped food.

Thank you! I will eat well before boarding then on the LSL.

 

[Shinkansenfan]

Food and ambience is certainly better on the western US long distance routes. The trick is to order items that are cooked on board such as steaks as opposed to items cooked off train and reheated. If in doubt, ask the dining car staff.

Food on the Lake Shore Limited is made off train and reheated.

If you're starting in New York City, why not enjoy the Metropolitan Lounge and make a meal of their offerings?

 

[Iskra]

Thanks for the useful advice.

I will certainly check out the Metropolitan Lounge, seems a good part of the experience. I do also have a hotel breakfast booked that morning so one evening of microwaved food is not the end of the world.

 

[ac6000cw]

The breakfasts were usually pretty good when I was there (more than 25 years ago). French toast was a railroad speciality, as I recall.

I'd agree with both points (but my experience was also some years ago).

When I travelled on the CZ and the Southwest Chief, I was in 'coach' (so no included meals) and found that having cooked breakfast and dinner was plenty of food for the day, with just a snack and coffees in the Lounge car in between. From memory, breakfast was a 'wander along to the dining car and wait to be seated' situation (often meaning you shared a table with other people) but for dinner the staff came through the train taking reservations.

Hope you're spending al least a little time in Chicago along the way - it's worth it just for a ride round the corners on the 'L', some of the architecture and maybe a ride out on Metra (commuter rail) to one of the suburban stations on the triple-track BNSF line to Aurora to watch the trains go by for an hour or two.

 

[Watershed]

often meaning you shared a table with other people

I think that sharing a table with fellow travellers is very much intended to be part of the experience

 

[Iskra]

I'd agree with both points (but my experience was also some years ago).

When I travelled on the CZ and the Southwest Chief, I was in 'coach' (so no included meals) and found that having cooked breakfast and dinner was plenty of food for the day, with just a snack and coffees in the Lounge car in between. From memory, breakfast was a 'wander along to the dining car and wait to be seated' situation (often meaning you shared a table with other people) but for dinner the staff came through the train taking reservations.

Hope you're spending al least a little time in Chicago along the way - it's worth it just for a ride round the corners on the 'L', some of the architecture and maybe a ride out on Metra (commuter rail) to one of the suburban stations on the triple-track BNSF line to Aurora to watch the trains go by for an hour or two.

Thanks for the useful information.

If all runs to time, I will have around 4 hours in Chicago so I intend to have a brief walk around downtown and probably a meal. I obviously can’t do anything too adventurous in that time. What is the L? I will also try and take a short walk in Denver in the hour refuelling stop there and make use of any other stops as much as I can too.

The main purpose of my trip is to quickly see as much as possible of NY in 24 hours, to do the coast to coast journey across the US that I’ve always wanted to do and then I’ve got a few days at the end to explore San Francisco before catching an A380 home. This trip will basically complete the US for me, with only Washington left of any importance to visit.

I think that sharing a table with fellow travellers is very much intended to be part of the experience

It is, but it’s an experience that can swing both ways.

 

[ac6000cw]

What is the L?

The elevated rail transit system (also known as the 'El' or Elevated) which has a complete loop around the downtown area - it's famous (because it follows the street layout) for having sharp corners - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_"L" and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Loop_(CTA)

Because of the central loop, 'The Loop' is synonymous in Chicago with 'downtown' (or at least the central business district part of it)

I think that sharing a table with fellow travellers is very much intended to be part of the experience

It is, and generally it's good, but as Iskra says it can swing both ways (I was once seated opposite a married couple at breakfast on Amtrak and the man basically deliberately ignored me - fortunately his wife was reasonably talkative).

I always found the Lounge car a good place to strike up interesting conversations with fellow travellers - on my first ever train ride in the US I remember discussing the merits of craft beer with someone as we trundled west on the CZ across Iowa and Nebraska in the darkness...

 

[Flying Snail]

If all runs to time, I will have around 4 hours in Chicago

That is a big If when it comes to Amtrak timekeeping. Delays of hours are not unusual for the long distance routes.

This map shows the live location of the trains with delays colo(u)r coded.

Intercity Rail Map

Live map of Amtrak and VIA Rail Canada trains

asm.transitdocs.com

 

[Iskra]

The elevated rail transit system (also known as the 'El' or Elevated) which has a complete loop around the downtown area - it's famous (because it follows the street layout) for having sharp corners - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_"L" and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Loop_(CTA)

Because of the central loop, 'The Loop' is synonymous in Chicago with 'downtown' (or at least the central business district part of it)


It is, and generally it's good, but as Iskra says it can swing both ways (I was once seated opposite a married couple at breakfast on Amtrak and the man basically deliberately ignored me - fortunately his wife was reasonably talkative).

I always found the Lounge car a good place to strike up interesting conversations with fellow travellers - on my first ever train ride in the US I remember discussing the merits of craft beer with someone as we trundled west on the CZ across Iowa and Nebraska in the darkness...

Thanks for the info on the Loop it does look worth a quick ride if I can do it.

Most Americans are interesting, sound and friendly- we’ve made family friends who live in Indiana that still holiday with my parents. The thing that sometimes gets me is that they can be over forward when discussing sensitive subjects, which I don’t always appreciate with people I don’t know, I think there is a bit of a culture difference there. But, talking to strangers is par for the course on long distance trains and that’s what the lounge/observation cars are for*. If you don’t want to be sociable you can always retreat to your room.

*In most countries anyway, I don’t think that is necessarily the case in Scandinavia as they also have different social norms.

That is a big If when it comes to Amtrak timekeeping. Delays of hours are not unusual for the long distance routes.

This map shows the live location of the trains with delays colo(u)r coded.

Intercity Rail Map

Live map of Amtrak and VIA Rail Canada trains

asm.transitdocs.com

Yes, I’m not overly concerned on the Lake Shore limited as it’s a relatively short journey and that’s the one that I connect from in Chicago- both are running okay on that map today.

The Zephyr is the one that’s much more likely to be delayed (as they are today) due to the larger distance, but it’s much less of a concern for me on that leg as all I’m doing is heading to a hotel when I get there (although I will head out exploring if I have time).

A very useful map though, thanks for sharing.

 

[OldandRambling]

Sounds a great trip! I love Chicago, and recommend the Millennium Park area, on the shore of Lake Michigan. Walkable from Union Station, or a bus ride from the station.
You might care to have a look at "amtrak unlimited" a US fans website with lots of amtrak food and travel knowledge...

 

[Iskra]

Sounds a great trip! I love Chicago, and recommend the Millennium Park area, on the shore of Lake Michigan. Walkable from Union Station, or a bus ride from the station.
You might care to have a look at "amtrak unlimited" a US fans website with lots of amtrak food and travel knowledge...

Chicago is getting a lot of love here, I’m starting to regret only having a few hours there now!

Thanks, I will check it out!

 

[Taunton]

The Chicago-West Coast trains commonly have a long stop once a day (eg at Denver) while the train is serviced, and you can take the chance to get something to eat in a restaurant at the station or nearby. Even if late arriving the full duration is commonly taken - ask the conductor.

The crew travel with the train the full distance. The USA is the land of tipping, and if you don't do so ADEQUATELY at first, in the eyes of the crew, you are typically subsequently ignored. They are always suspicious of those with non-US accents. Even with the meals included accommodation you are expected to read through the menu, work out the cost of what you are getting, and tip to US standards (which has now crept up beyond 15% to 20%) accordingly. Even for breakfast. Likewise drinks in the lounge car.

There are plenty of articles on the web aimed at Americans explaining this. One I saw solemnly explained it was not necessary to tip the locomotive engineer ...

 

[185]

Zephyr was really good, nice staff on board, however the only failing was the Amtrak obsession with squashing randoms around one dining table... either a blessing or a curse depending on who you got. Food was good with a reasonable choice.

Ah! along came Covid... I hear that is no longer an issue.

 

[OldandRambling]

I have taken the Zephyr several times, as well as all the other main Amtrak trains. Last visit was in 2018.
I agree that the US has a culture of "tipping", but for Amtrak, they will not ignore you or provide bad service if you neglect to tip.
I do, and just tip a couple of $ for breakfast, $5 or so for lunch and dinner. The thing is that while tips are welcomed, Amtrak staff are paid a decent basic salary, whereas those folk working in hospitality in wider society have a lower basic, on the assumption that they make it up with tips, as much as 20% as mentioned.
Folk usually tip the Sleeping Car Attendant $10 per trip, but if they are invisible or give poor service during the journey, it is entirely optional!

I do like the communal dining, sharing tables with others, a great way to meet folk. The lounge/observation car is another place to meet folk, I have had interesting conversations there with Amish and Mennonite folk, even received an invite to visit one of their farms!

 

[FormerBritInMe]

I second the recommendation of a ride on the "L" and a visit to Millenium Park. If you have time, ride the Brown Line out to the end and see a feature unique to Chicago - level crossings on a heavy rail Metro line.

Generally the CZ arrives in plenty of time to get the LSL which leaves in the late evening, but the CZ has been known to be several hours late. Generally when I travel through Chicago I stay overnight which also provides an opportunity to do things in the city and get a good night's sleep.

 

[matacaster]

Chicago is getting a lot of love here, I’m starting to regret only having a few hours there now!

Thanks, I will check it out!

Shame you won't see the Chicago theatre. Its really attractive and most un-American in its 1930s? splendour!

 

[ac6000cw]

The crew travel with the train the full distance.

Only the on-board service crew (catering staff and car attendants) stay/sleep on the train - there are Superliner dormitory cars on the long-distance trains to provide OBS sleeping/off-duty accommodation. Engineers (drivers) and conductors change at points en-route (same as freight train crews do).

This is a map (from Trains magazine) of Amtrak crew districts in 2020 - https://www.trains.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/trn-m0506_a.pdf - crew bases are in BOLD CAPITALS and 'away terminals' in normal type (where crew rest/lodge and then work back to their home base on another train). Lodging turns are common in North America railroading, one reason why local freight and yard work can be sought-after jobs - you get home every day.

 

[matacaster]

Anyone like to comment on dining on southwest chief? Will be on it in August LA - >Newton.

 

[ac6000cw]

Anyone like to comment on dining on southwest chief? Will be on it in August LA - >Newton.

It's been a long time since I travelled on it, but it should be the same as on the CZ - AFAIK all the 'western' long distance trains have basically the same equipment and formation, normally locos/baggage/crew dorm/sleepers/diner/lounge (with bar/buffet)/coaches. The menus should be the same as well, maybe with a bit of route-specific variation.

 

[Taunton]

Only the on-board service crew (catering staff and car attendants) stay/sleep on the train - there are Superliner dormitory cars on the long-distance trains to provide OBS sleeping/off-duty accommodation. Engineers (drivers) and conductors change at points en-route (same as freight train crews do).

This is a map (from Trains magazine) of Amtrak crew districts in 2020 - https://www.trains.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/trn-m0506_a.pdf - crew bases are in BOLD CAPITALS and 'away terminals' in normal type (where crew rest/lodge and then work back to their home base on another train). Lodging turns are common in North America railroading, one reason why local freight and yard work can be sought-after jobs - you get home every day.

Seems the crew districts get changed from time to time. I recall the Southwest Chief (quite) some years ago when conversation with the conductor through Arizona had him working from Albuquerque NM (the train's main servicing stop, for an hour or so) to Needles CA, a run of some 600 miles and about 9 hours. I see now neither are crew points. I presume by now that Amtrak has got away from the old tradition of 100 miles = 1 day's pay, which led to 100 mile crew districts.

Anyone like to comment on dining on southwest chief? Will be on it in August LA - >Newton.

Be up in time to see the descent from Victorville in the High Desert down to San Bernardino through The Cajon. It's a railway spectacle. On that last trip BNSF put a big helper on the front just on this stretch, no power needed, just a lot of capability from the dynamic brakes, which send periodic shocks down the train as you go down.

 

[ac6000cw]

Be up in time to see the descent from Victorville in the High Desert down to San Bernardino through The Cajon.

I think matacaster is going eastbound - which in August means climbing Cajon just after sunset. I've done it both ways in the past - it's a great ride in either direction!

On that last trip BNSF put a big helper on the front just on this stretch, no power needed, just a lot of capability from the dynamic brakes, which send periodic shocks down the train as you go down.

I wonder if the Amtrak locos had dynamic brake problem e.g. it wasn't working on one of them. AFAIK trains are not allowed to descend Cajon without sufficient working dynamics, especially on the original/shortest track with 3% gradients...

 

[jumble]

Thanks for the useful information.

If all runs to time, I will have around 4 hours in Chicago so I intend to have a brief walk around downtown and probably a meal. I obviously can’t do anything too adventurous in that time. What is the L? I will also try and take a short walk in Denver in the hour refuelling stop there and make use of any other stops as much as I can too.

The main purpose of my trip is to quickly see as much as possible of NY in 24 hours, to do the coast to coast journey across the US that I’ve always wanted to do and then I’ve got a few days at the end to explore San Francisco before catching an A380 home. This trip will basically complete the US for me, with only Washington left of any importance to visit.


It is, but it’s an experience that can swing both ways.

We have just been in Chicago
We were looking for a quick Chicago Type Deep Pan Pizza and stumbled across Lukes

Lukes – Homemade Italian Beef

lukeschicago.com

Their Deep Pan personal pizzas were nice and 2 pizzas and a drink each cost us £13.21
Beware they need 30 minutes to cook
Giordinos next door had huge queues of noisey tourists and would have cost at least Double

I really envy you
We did the same trip in 1993 (Except doing the South West Chief)
Back in those days a 15 Day National unlimited pass cost us £134 which is £232 in todays money
Supliments Ny to Chicago was £52 (£93) for a slumbercoach and Sleeper Chicago to LA was £150 (£260)
Today a 10 ride pass costs 500USD which is about £416
The Sleeper Chicago to LA is going to be at least £600 i should think

 

[Taunton]

I think matacaster is going eastbound - which in August means climbing Cajon just after sunset. I've done it both ways in the past - it's a great ride in either direction!

Memory rekindled

Trains Magazine has surely done many articles about The Cajon, but one I long recalled from 1970s, before I lived in Los Angeles (for a while), which described driving in a 4x4 up the dirt tracks alongside the line for photography shots. I thus sort-of did the same myself, without the off-roading, when there.

Knowing that prominent rail photographer Richard Steinheimer, who came from LA, favoured the pass, I did in the last hour a search for his name/location, and have just been amazed to find, almost first hit, a downloadable pdf of that very magazine article, for, equally amazing, it had been written by Stein himself (as many called him). It was the September 1974 issue, which was when I was visiting the USA during university hols. Here it is :

https://www.trains.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/cajon-pass-revisited.pdf?la=en

He must have been an older gentleman even then, because he writes in 1974 of going there when there was still steam. Notably, it looks quite different there now from even 1974. The railway itself has been substantially reworked, more than once, and the urban sprawl of Los Angeles has even come up the desert

 

[Iskra]

Memory rekindled

Trains Magazine has surely done many articles about The Cajon, but one I long recalled from 1970s, before I lived in Los Angeles (for a while), which described driving in a 4x4 up the dirt tracks alongside the line for photography shots. I thus sort-of did the same myself, without the off-roading, when there.

Knowing that prominent rail photographer Richard Steinheimer, who came from LA, favoured the pass, I did in the last hour a search for his name/location, and have just been amazed to find, almost first hit, a downloadable pdf of that very magazine article, for, equally amazing, it had been written by Stein himself (as many called him). It was the September 1974 issue, which was when I was visiting the USA during university hols. Here it is :

https://www.trains.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/cajon-pass-revisited.pdf?la=en

He must have been an older gentleman even then, because he writes in 1974 of going there when there was still steam. Notably, it looks quite different there now from even 1974. The railway itself has been substantially reworked, more than once, and the urban sprawl of Los Angeles has even come up the desert

Very interesting. In 2015, I drove from Vegas to LA on the Cajon Pass on the parallel I15, and those photos are still recognisable to me. While it may be more urbanised now, the landscape is still instantly recognisable, so not spoilt at all.

I remember being in awe of the passing freight trains- the sheer length of them snaking around the corners. A particular highlight of the drive was pulling in to a ‘Peggy Sue’s Diner’ car park, only for Elvis himself to step out of the car in front! A very American journey. Can’t wait to be back this September and even better to be travelling with someone else doing the driving!

 

[ac6000cw]

Notably, it looks quite different there now from even 1974. The railway itself has been substantially reworked, more than once

The substantial changes to the ex-Santa Fe route over the pass since the second 'low grade' track was added in 1913 are the summit re-alignment in 1972 (lowering it and reducing the curvature - they were getting too many 'string-lining' derailments), and adding the third track in 2008/2009 which also removed the remaining tunnels from the pass. In 1967 Southern Pacific built their own 'Palmdale Cutoff' line through the pass basically paralleling the Santa Fe 'low grade' line but mostly higher up the west/north side of valley - it turns north-west after the summit towards Palmdale (and thence Mojave and Tehachapi). So that makes it 4 tracks in total over the pass today - three BNSF and one UP, with UP also having trackage rights over the BNSF route.

the urban sprawl of Los Angeles has even come up the desert

Having explored Cajon and Tehachapi passes four times between 1998 and 2019, the growth of 'urban sprawl' is very noticeable around both of them near their summits - and the level of traffic and congestion on I-15 around Cajon is atrocious now at peak times, doubtless partly as consequence. They've now re-connected the Cajon part of old 'Route 66' directly to San Bernardino - to provide a bit of 'rat run' traffic relief to I-15 for local traffic - handy for train watching too

The view from the summit in 2015, looking west then east (the UP - ex-SP - line is on the left of the second photo, BNSF - ex-Santa Fe - on the right):

[url=https://flic.kr/p/CMt5BV] BNSF TOFC at Cajon Summit 1 by ac6044cw, on Flickr[/URL]

[url=https://flic.kr/p/CmfWt2] Three trains at Cajon Summit 1 by ac6044cw, on Flickr[/URL]

 

[Taunton]

Another Trains article, presumably a few years later, featured the Operator (signalman) at Cajon Summit, who was a complete and well known 'Old West' personality, huge beard, lived on his own in the desert beside the tracks, etc, who actually got visited by President Ronald Reagan (also from LA). There was a key photo in the article of the Operator at the control stand, nothing particularly different in his attire to any other day, looking at his track diagram ... with Reagan just looking on bemused in the background. Nobody else in shot.

Makes me want to go back. But life has moved on ...

 

[ac6000cw]

Another Trains article, presumably a few years later, featured the Operator (signalman) at Cajon Summit, who was a complete and well known 'Old West' personality, huge beard, lived on his own in the desert beside the tracks, etc, who actually got visited by President Ronald Reagan (also from LA). There was a key photo in the article of the Operator at the control stand, nothing particularly different in his attire to any other day, looking at his track diagram ... with Reagan just looking on bemused in the background. Nobody else in shot.

Makes me want to go back. But life has moved on ...

I think the most well-known operator at the summit was Chard Walker, who was a train-order operator and station agent there from 1951 to 1967 (and lived in railroad accommodation there, along with his wife and children later on). He was also a well-known photographer, author and railfan. After his death in 2007, BNSF named a new 'control point' (a set of crossovers and signals) on Cajon Pass after him - 'CP Walker'. A nice memorial, I think.

This is a good map of Cajon Pass, showing the changes over the years - https://www.trains.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/trnm0811_acajonpass.pdf - 'CP Walker' is near the top left corner, not far from 'Stein's Hill' (named after photographer Richard Steinheimer, of course). Then further south is 'Sullivan's Curve', named after Herb Sullivan, another well known local photographer.

(But the place to watch trains in Southern California has to be Tehachapi Pass, doesn't it? Unfortunately it hasn't had any regular passenger trains for more than 50 years, so line-siding is the only option).

If you're in or passing through the LA area, an excellent, busy, place to watch trains for few hours is Fullerton on the BNSF mainline - you can easily get there from downtown LA on Metrolink (commuter rail) and Amtrak ('Surfliner' services to/from San Diego, plus it's a stop for the Southwest Chief). It's also got a cafe on the platform and restaurants nearby.