Amtrak Funding in 2018

[Groningen]

There is another problem. During hurricane Sandy 5 years ago the tunnels in the New York area were damaged and have reached full capacity. They want to replace them but at a cost of 20 billion $. They may have to find maybe something else. More in the link below.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gateway_Program_(Northeast_Corridor)

 

[Taunton]

The twin-track tunnels under the Hudson used as New York City to Washington trains start their journey have been in place since the early 20th century, replacing ferryboats from a Pennsylvania Railway terminal on the New Jersey side. Since then there have been progressively more commuter services added to the route because there were several other former companies, all of whom also used ferryboats from their own separate terminals, which have progressively had their services moved onto the route.

I think I am right that there have been no new crossings of the Hudson into Manhattan, road, rail or subway, built since the 1950s, and with the end of the ferries there is actually less capacity.

The USD 20bn cost of an additional two tunnels seems an extraordinary cost for what looks a straightforward tunnelling project with some 4-tracking on the NJ side,

 

[Groningen]

Yes 20 billion $ for a distance of about 15 to 20 kilometers is much too high. On the New Jersey side it is mainly emptiness. In an article from 1989 the pricetag for the Channeltunnel was 11,2 billion $.

Source: http://www.upi.com/Archives/1989/10/02/Channel-Tunnel-price-tag-up-nearly-40-percent/1666623304000/

 

[WatcherZero]

Well, turns out that compromise bill was just for the interim until the new budget this autumn. Trump is still planning on cutting Amtrak long distance services after then, it looks like.

Yes, the compromise bill is the last Obama budget which didn't pass while he was in office.

 

[nlogax]

This whole thing worries me. Rural communities could be cut off, tourist trade will die in certain areas reliant on long distance rail, and once long distance services are cut I don't see a way back for them. If you're a fan of Amtrak long distance services, now is the time to do them - there's no guarantee that they'll exist 18 months from now. Riding the Southwest Chief gave me the appetite to experience more so I've booked myself on the Texas Eagle. Intending on enjoying every single one of those 65 hours onboard.

 

[duncanp]

18 months from now will be at the end of 2018, when people's thoughts in the US will be turning to the next presidential election.

If the proposals to cut services are carried out, then 23 out of the 46 states currently served would lose all passenger rail services. Many of these are in rural parts of America that voted for Trump in the last election. These states will not be happy if their services are cut whilst populous states on the Eastern seaboard still receive government funding. I don't know if American passenger services have to go through a consultation process before withdrawal as happens over here, but the last thing that Trump will want is a lot of angry disaffected voters in the run up to the next election.

What might happen is that certain services which now run daily will only run two or three times per week, or that private companies or states take over some routes, such as the California Zephyr.

 

[me123]

18 months from now will be at the end of 2018, when people's thoughts in the US will be turning to the next presidential election.

If the proposals to cut services are carried out, then 23 out of the 46 states currently served would lose all passenger rail services. Many of these are in rural parts of America that voted for Trump in the last election. These states will not be happy if their services are cut whilst populous states on the Eastern seaboard still receive government funding.

Is it really that much of an issue? I can't imagine that people in Idaho (one railway station in the whole state) or Arkansas (One train a day in each direction, at unsociable hours) particularly care that their service is going to be cut. I can't imagine many of them actually use it. Idaho's single station attracts fewer passengers than Strathcarron Railway Station (serving a village of population c1000) on the Far North Line. If few people are using the long distance trains, then few people are going to complain about their withdrawal.

Besides, we're talking about many states that are solid Red states. I wouldn't be surprised if many of the voters opposed public transportation and considered it a form of communism. I'm sure quite a lot of them would be happy to see the back of passenger railroads.

 

[duncanp]

Perhaps not in every state, but I have seen newspaper articles saying, for example, that politicians in Alabama would be concerned about the loss of The Crescent

I do think that if the, at one fell swoop, withdraw passenger rail service from 23 states, it will not be good publicity for Donald Trump. Imagine what would have happened if the Beeching report had been implemented all on one day.

The proposed budget also includes withdrawal of support for many smaller regional airports. Closure of some airports would have a far greater impact, as these are used for connections to larger hub airports in the big cities.

 

[Taunton]

I do think that if the, at one fell swoop, withdraw passenger rail service from 23 states, it will not be good publicity for Donald Trump. Imagine what would have happened if the Beeching report had been implemented all on one day.

That was exactly what happened on the day that Amtrak started in 1971, taking passenger service over from the formerly separate railways. More than half of the services involved were abandoned on that day.

 

[gsnedders]

Perhaps not in every state, but I have seen newspaper articles saying, for example, that politicians in Alabama would be concerned about the loss of The Crescent

I do think that if the, at one fell swoop, withdraw passenger rail service from 23 states, it will not be good publicity for Donald Trump. Imagine what would have happened if the Beeching report had been implemented all on one day.

And, has been mentioned before, think of how many congressional districts these services go through, and how many jobs they provide across the whole route: especially at larger stations, the number of employees would surprise most people in the UK. This is as much about federal funding for their area as it is about operating a train service.

 

[edwin_m]

The obvious solution is to restore steam haulage to all Amtrak trains at the earliest opportunity, so they can burn American coal.

 

[duncanp]

Perhaps what will happen is what happened with the Settle & Carlisle line.

When the line is under threat of closure, people will realise what they will miss if it is gone.

One thing that could is help is proper connecting bus services to communities not served by Amtrak.

A lot of the "connecting" bus services require a very long wait, and are not guaranteed if the train is running late, which quite often happens.

 

[Taunton]

There have long been "connecting buses" shown in the Amtrak timetables. Whenever I saw them at a station they were chartered from Greyhound, who presumably had some form of national agreement for these.

In time, of course, it gets realised that such dedicated services cost more than they generate, and as Greyhound are possibly providing a scheduled bus service along the same road, it is attractive to try and combine the two. This sort of approach seems to happen worldwide over time (it afflicted the dedicated "Beeching replacement buses" in Britain 50 years ago). This sort of arrangement makes no provision for handling delayed trains, which at the midpoint of a run where such connections often are is much greater than when measured at the end of the run with all the schedule padding there.

 

[ac6000cw]

The obvious solution is to restore steam haulage to all Amtrak trains at the earliest opportunity, so they can burn American coal.

They probably wouldn't use coal though - they'd use Liquefied Natural Gas instead because it's cheaper due to the growth of fracking (which is a major reason for the decline in US railroad coal traffic in recent years - old coal-fired generating plant is being replaced with cheaper gas-fired plant where a gas supply is available at low cost). However, convincing the FRA that it's safe to haul a tank of LNG around at the head of a passenger train might be difficult...even if it was being burnt in a compression-ignition engine...

 

[Taunton]

The obvious solution is to restore steam haulage to all Amtrak trains at the earliest opportunity, so they can burn American coal.

An East Coast solution. Out west, railways like Southern Pacific had converted to oil firing long before steam locos disappeared. That is how the cab-forwards on the SP were practical, the loco ran what looked like backwards, with the tender behind, and the oil fuel piped to the firebox.

The oil fuel was generally "Bunker C", which was bottom grade residue from the oil refinery, plentiful and very cheap. It was also used for steamship boilers at the time.

 

[philabos]

Is it really that much of an issue? I can't imagine that people in Idaho (one railway station in the whole state) or Arkansas (One train a day in each direction, at unsociable hours) particularly care that their service is going to be cut. I can't imagine many of them actually use it. Idaho's single station attracts fewer passengers than Strathcarron Railway Station (serving a village of population c1000) on the Far North Line. If few people are using the long distance trains, then few people are going to complain about their withdrawal.

Besides, we're talking about many states that are solid Red states. I wouldn't be surprised if many of the voters opposed public transportation and considered it a form of communism. I'm sure quite a lot of them would be happy to see the back of passenger railroads.

Quite right. Amtrak is generally a non issue overall, particularly in states that see one train per day. Several months ago, Amtrak sold the entire California Zephyr to a computer group from Chicago to California. In other words, no public service on that day. Nobody noticed.

The rail fans did fret over what the people in Omaha, Denver, and Salt Lake City plus a list of other points could possibly do on that day. They would fly Southwest Airlines or drive like they usually do on every other day.

 

[edwin_m]

An East Coast solution. Out west, railways like Southern Pacific had converted to oil firing long before steam locos disappeared. That is how the cab-forwards on the SP were practical, the loco ran what looked like backwards, with the tender behind, and the oil fuel piped to the firebox.

The oil fuel was generally "Bunker C", which was bottom grade residue from the oil refinery, plentiful and very cheap. It was also used for steamship boilers at the time.

There are coal reserves out west too, though I suppose if they can find a suitably dirty blend of oil that would do just as well.

 

[Groningen]

This summer Amtrak is doing enprmous enginering works in New York's Penn Station. LIRR, Amtrak and New Jersey Transit is affected. Some trains are cancelled, other times or detoured to other stations.

More information can be found here:
http://www.mta.info/press-release/m...mprehensive-transportation-plan-prevent-major

http://www.njtransit.com/tm/tm_servlet.srv?hdnPageAction=PressReleaseTo&PRESS_RELEASE_ID=3143

 

[duncanp]

It sounds very similar in nature to the work taking place at London Waterloo this August.

They seem to have a comprehensive set of replacement and enhanced services, and I would assume that the PATH train between New Jersey and Manhattan will be a bit busier than normal.