An hourly Glasgow Queen Street to Arbroath service - will it happen?

[blackhill]

As I live near the railway in carnoustie, does anyone think an hourly Glasgow queen street to arbroath service calling at the likes of gleneagles, broughty ferry, monifieth and carnoustie will happen, if so when and what will the calling pattern out of queen street and dundee be like without clashing with other services.

Will there be more services at monifeith if a trial did happen just like broughty ferry at the moment?

There was an Arbroath to Perth service up until about the late 80s (70s slam doors and comparments). It was withdrawn when the Aberdeen to Glasgow service became hourly when dmu's were pressed in to service about the same time.

There was talk of starting it again about 5 years ago . But I think there is more chance of the Dunblane to Glasgow stopping service being extended to start Perth

 

[Scotrail84]

There was an Arbroath to Perth service up until about the late 80s (70s slam doors and comparments). It was withdrawn when the Aberdeen to Glasgow service became hourly when dmu's were pressed in to service about the same time.

There was talk of starting it again about 5 years ago . But I think there is more chance of the Dunblane to Glasgow stopping service being extended to start Perth

It was withdrawn because the council which funded the service withdrew their funding, instead choosing to invest elsewhere.

 

[rail-britain]

There was an Arbroath to Perth service up until about the late 80s (70s slam doors and comparments). It was withdrawn when the Aberdeen to Glasgow service became hourly when dmu's were pressed in to service about the same time

The Arbroath to Perth service ended with first generation DMU
The service was provided as the ScotRail Express services were too long for the stations and caused delays

It had to be briefly reinstated, as a Dundee to Arbroath service, whilst the Class 156 units temporarily ran the Express services until the Class 158 units were fully introduced

There was talk of starting it again about 5 years ago . But I think there is more chance of the Dunblane to Glasgow stopping service being extended to start Perth

Very unlikely the Dunblane service being extended to Perth until around 2020 (as that would mean retaining DMU when EMU can be used)
There are plans to extend the current irregular second Perth / Dundee service to Arbroath, and eventually extend this to full half hourly service to Aberdeen, ironically that too should be completed around 2020

 

[blackhill]

The Arbroath to Perth service ended with first generation DMU
The service was provided as the ScotRail Express services were too long for the stations and caused delays

It had to be briefly reinstated, as a Dundee to Arbroath service, whilst the Class 156 units temporarily ran the Express services until the Class 158 units were fully introduced


Very unlikely the Dunblane service being extended to Perth until around 2020 (as that would mean retaining DMU when EMU can be used)
There are plans to extend the current irregular second Perth / Dundee service to Arbroath, and eventually extend this to full half hourly service to Aberdeen, ironically that too should be completed around 2020

Thanks for clarification RB.

 

[Failed Unit]

Yes, commented about already, there will be little overall change, what is applied is simply due to the change in rolling stock (all become consistent)

I am surprised noone has picked up on the comments in the 2014 plan that suggests through services from Glasgow QS to North Berwick, using 3 car trains, thus releasing the 4 car Class 380 units
I have been mulling over this and can see some serious issues if such a unit got delayed or stranded whilst travelling between Edinburgh and North Berwick
Yes, this provides great through travelling options but presents high risks to Glasgow QS services
There are no responses from SPT or Tactran with respect to this

Not knowing the loadings on the North Berwick route, but would the not miss 4 coach sets. Although I guess the could extend the platforms to take 6 car like they did in the central belt. Don't know if alternate Dunbar / North Berwick would work without long dwells on a 1/2 hourly Drem - Waverley service.

However, I think if the Dunblane services still stop at Edinburgh Park then North Berwick - Dunblane would be a goodthing. (even North Berwick - Bathgate and onwards) this will give East of Edinburgh - Edinburgh park. I. Think however west of Glasgow - East of Edinburgh would be too risky performance wise.

 

[rail-britain]

Not knowing the loadings on the North Berwick route, but would the not miss 4 coach sets. Although I guess the could extend the platforms to take 6 car like they did in the central belt. Don't know if alternate Dunbar / North Berwick would work without long dwells on a 1/2 hourly Drem - Waverley service

There has never been any enthusiasm to increase the platforms to cope with 6 car sets
I am wondering if there is an issue at North Berwick (as I understand it this the limiting factor, with 4 cars)

However, I think if the Dunblane services still stop at Edinburgh Park then North Berwick - Dunblane would be a goodthing. (even North Berwick - Bathgate and onwards) this will give East of Edinburgh - Edinburgh park. I. Think however west of Glasgow - East of Edinburgh would be too risky performance wise.

The secondary Edinburgh - Dunblane services will be routed via Dalmeny chord, so will serve Gogar (Edinburgh Gateway)
The secondary Edinburgh - Glasgow services will be routed via Dalmeny diversion, so will serve Edinburgh Park

 

[route:oxford]

However, I think if the Dunblane services still stop at Edinburgh Park then North Berwick - Dunblane would be a goodthing. (even North Berwick - Bathgate and onwards) this will give East of Edinburgh - Edinburgh park. I. Think however west of Glasgow - East of Edinburgh would be too risky performance wise.

To do that...

First of all bore a new Cross-City underground tunnel beneath the exising mainline from Saughton to Abbey Lane with a twin platform 12 Car* underground station at Haymarket and a quad platform 12 Car* underground station at Waverley.

That would solve a huge number of pathing issues at the Haymarket Western throat too.


*Suitable for through Pendolino/225/IEP services to Stirling.

 

[Failed Unit]

There has never been any enthusiasm to increase the platforms to cope with 6 car sets
I am wondering if there is an issue at North Berwick (as I understand it this the limiting factor, with 4 cars)



The secondary Edinburgh - Dunblane services will be routed via Dalmeny chord, so will serve Gogar (Edinburgh Gateway)
The secondary Edinburgh - Glasgow services will be routed via Dalmeny diversion, so will serve Edinburgh Park

I really hope that doesn't happen. Edinburgh Park is in a useful location where you can walk to offices and shops. Edinburgh Gateway is no use to man nor beast but that's progress!

 

[rail-britain]

I really hope that doesn't happen. Edinburgh Park is in a useful location where you can walk to offices and shops. Edinburgh Gateway is no use to man nor beast but that's progress!

Edinburgh Park retains the current frequency, no overall change

Edinburgh Gateway will have 4 trains per hour
I understand there is a passing loop prior to Dalmeny, so expect this to be used more to allow fast trains to pass (and the impacts this causes)
However, I do agree this station just simply duplicates the available routes and options, the overall benefits appear to be negligible
Perhaps it will be useful for :
Glasgow / Stirling / Fife - Edinburgh Gateway -> Edinburgh Tram
I personally think this passenger flow will be very low
Glasgow / Stirling / Fife - Edinburgh Gateway -> Airport
I can see the the benefits of this passenger flow (rather than currently change at Haymarket and bus)
The final set are Tram -> Airport, but this too I think will be a low passenger flow (historically bus), when you compare the passenger flow from Glasgow (Central) to Edinburgh

 

[Failed Unit]

But it is back to my point that from Stirling you can change onto the tram and get to the airport from Edinburgh Park. I am sure a lot of people highlighted that in thier responses to the consultation.

 

[rail-britain]

But it is back to my point that from Stirling you can change onto the tram and get to the airport from Edinburgh Park. I am sure a lot of people highlighted that in thier responses to the consultation.

Once EGIP is completed, passengers will be able to travel to either station, however they will have to decide which one, although the journey time will be slightly less by using Edinburgh Gateway
I personally think the future of Edinburgh Park is bleak...

 

[tbtc]

Once EGIP is completed, passengers will be able to travel to either station, however they will have to decide which one, although the journey time will be slightly less by using Edinburgh Gateway
I personally think the future of Edinburgh Park is bleak...

So you've got a choice of Edinburgh Park (not really near anywhere, but you'll be able to take a tram to The Gyle, RBS and the Airport or Edinburgh Gateway which offers you, erm, the same as Edinburgh Park (though has even less within walking distance).

At least in Liverpool they united stations on different lines with [stn]LPY[/stn]. This is just a mess - made even worse by the fact that Edinburgh Park is such a new station.

 

[rail-britain]

I suspect when Ednburgh Gateway is completed it will open to Fife traffic first
The two stations will then have advisory travel information applied

"Edinburgh Gateway for Edinburgh Airport"
"Edinburgh Park for Gyle Shopping Centre and RBS"

 

[Failed Unit]

Actually Edinburgh Gateway will be closer to the Gyle Centre, but ironically not as useful as the soon to be closed South Gyle whos residents will probably drive to another station now.

 

[tbtc]

Actually Edinburgh Gateway will be closer to the Gyle Centre, but ironically not as useful as the soon to be closed South Gyle whos residents will probably drive to another station now.

Oh, didn't realise it was closing
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I suspect when Ednburgh Gateway is completed it will open to Fife traffic first
The two stations will then have advisory travel information applied

"Edinburgh Gateway for Edinburgh Airport"
"Edinburgh Park for Gyle Shopping Centre and RBS"

Since part of the new station's justification is the link to the Airport, imagine if you've arrived on a flight at Edinburgh Airport and want to head to Glasgow. There's a half hourly train from Edinburgh Gateway and a half hourly train from Edinburgh Park. Which one do you get the tram to? What a confusing "welcome to Scotland" that would be.

 

[Scotrail84]

Actually Edinburgh Gateway will be closer to the Gyle Centre, but ironically not as useful as the soon to be closed South Gyle whos residents will probably drive to another station now.

Closing south gyle. Really? :/

 

[rail-britain]

Closing south gyle. Really? :/

Yes, it will close when Edinburgh Gateway opens
It does not appear on any route maps, post EGIP

 

[Scotrail84]

Yes, it will close when Edinburgh Gateway opens
It does not appear on any route maps, post EGIP

Maybe because qst and dunblanes don't stop there, only fife traffic.

 

[rail-britain]

Maybe because qst and dunblanes don't stop there, only fife traffic.

No trains currently call at Edinburgh Gateway, it does not yet exist
As above, once EGIP is completed it will serve all three routes from Edinburgh; Glasgow QS, Dunblane, and Fife

 

[reb0118]

Why not combine Edinburgh Park and the new Gateway Station at a new location? Somewhere like Saughton Jn? Might have to knock a few houses down though?

Just a thought.

 

[rail-britain]

Why not combine Edinburgh Park and the new Gateway Station at a new location?

Too late now, everything is in place and construction contracts awarded
Some ground work has already been carried out

 

[sprinterguy]

No trains currently call at Edinburgh Gateway, it does not yet exist

Scotrail84 was referring to South Gyle...

 

[tbtc]

Too late I know, but if you're going to mix various Falkirk services and Fife services on the two track line through Edinburgh Gateway each hour then it really needs to have four platforms (or at least passing loops).

 

[Scotrail84]

Scotrail84 was referring to South Gyle...

Correct sprinterguy, I thought it was obvious

 

[Failed Unit]

Closing south gyle. Really? :/

Well as good as, from what I have seen it will be a token service. But that's progress! You have to force people to use a station no-one wants or needs by making it difficult to use the ones they really want to use.

 

[Scotrail84]

Well as good as, from what I have seen it will be a token service. But that's progress! You have to force people to use a station no-one wants or needs by making it difficult to use the ones they really want to use.

I reckon it will retain the service it has just now.

 

[Failed Unit]

I reckon it will retain the service it has just now.

Hopefully and the will see sense and not ruin the route between Linlithgow and Haymarket.

 

[rail-britain]

I reckon it will retain the service it has just now.

Doesn't look like it
I've seen a map of the routes, before and after EGIP
South Gyle is there before, but not on the after

There is also a note (EGIP response) about the closure from the Gogar Community, and advises that the local bus service will be extended to Edinburgh Gateway with assurances by the operator that the fare level zone will be retained for no less than 3 years

 

[Scotrail84]

Doesn't look like it
I've seen a map of the routes, before and after EGIP
South Gyle is there before, but not on the after

There is also a note (EGIP response) about the closure from the Gogar Community, and advises that the local bus service will be extended to Edinburgh Gateway with assurances by the operator that the fare level zone will be retained for no less than 3 years

So can we take this as gospel then? The gyle will close?

 

[tbtc]

Doesn't look like it
I've seen a map of the routes, before and after EGIP
South Gyle is there before, but not on the after

There is also a note (EGIP response) about the closure from the Gogar Community, and advises that the local bus service will be extended to Edinburgh Gateway with assurances by the operator that the fare level zone will be retained for no less than 3 years

Fare level zone?

It's £1.40 flat fare, whether you go from Mussleburgh to the Zoo or just round the corner in Edinburgh.