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An MP wants your views: How would you rate your experience of using Great Western Railway?

Rate your experience of GWR from 1-5

  • 1 - very bad

    Votes: 9 4.3%
  • 2 - bad

    Votes: 25 12.1%
  • 3 - OK

    Votes: 64 30.9%
  • 4 - good

    Votes: 81 39.1%
  • 5 - very good

    Votes: 28 13.5%

  • Total voters
    207
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RailUK Forums

43096

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I am utterly astonished that anyone could think that GWR were "good" or "very good". The last 18 months have been particularly shambolic, but the franchise has been a poor performer right from day 1 back in 1996, punctuated by brief periods where it has been OK (notably under Chris Kinchen-Smith, Mike Carroll and the turnaround under Andrew Haines). Worst of all have been the periods when Alison Forster and Mark Hopwood have been MD.

In particular the issues recently have been/are:
- poor planning of IEP training and the abysmal service delivery at weekends for many months with regular cancellation of dozens of trains that came from it.
- poor specification of Class 800 and 802 units with regard to seats and catering facilities. They are utterly appalling.
- lack of any sort of apology to the customers for the appalling service provided. Mark Hopwood has been invisible (save for one - late - letter to the Cotswold Line Promotion Group, which had nothing to do with Lord Faulkner being President and Lord Adonis and David Cameron being vice-presidents of the CLPG) and his management team likewise haven't fronted up.
- appalling service delivery. As an example, "right time arrivals" of up West of England trains at Reading are shocking - e.g. 1A96 has NEVER been on time at Reading in the last 100 days.
- industry-worst fleet reliability. Least reliable HST fleet (by a long way), Classes 165/166 bottom of the pile in their category, worst Electrostar reliability in the country, worst Class 150 and 158 fleets in the country. Reliability is generally going backwards, too. Unbelievably, First then take the Engineering Director who has overseen this and made him MD of one of the biggest and most challenging franchises in the country.

GWR is, frankly, an appalling company from top to bottom and one that I now avoid using if at all possible.
 

Mitchell Hurd

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The reason I've opted for number 4 ('good') is because...

At least since January last year, I've had On Time / On Time to 15-minute late trips. Not bad considering 2018 wasn't a great year.

However, since February also last year when I've booked a seat on an IET, the trains have always run in reverse formation. Only the 12:30 from Didcot Parkway to London Paddington on the 09/01/19 was a good thing as my allocated backward seat (instead of forwards) was forward facing.

This is why I much prefer CrossCountry's system than GWR's of not offering a choice of direction.
 

JN114

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3,346
I am utterly astonished that anyone could think that GWR were "good" or "very good".

Just see it as further proof that those with the strongest viewpoints either way will tend to wax lyrical about it; and thus are generally all we hear about in discussions forums and the ilk. Meanwhile those that have little to say generally find things acceptable or passable as they are will vote but not have much to say on the matter.
 

Modron

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Compared with Transport For Wales (there is another definition of what TFW means, but I won't post it on here as it contains rude words..) they are doing alright. Never had a gripe with Cardiff-London Paddington, although the seats take some getting used to, but was not happy at having to travel on 2 x Class 150s on a Cardiff-Portsmouth Harbour service last year (no 158s available apparently...)
 

HouseOfCommons

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From Stephen Doughty MP: “Dear Rail UK Forums community, I’d like to thank you all for the time and effort you’ve taken to submit these thoughtful and interesting responses. Lots of you have drawn attention to some important issues with the GWR network, and have shared experiences which have helped shape my understanding in the build up to tomorrow’s debate.

Many of these reflect my own concerns and those of my constituents, and I will do my best to represent them in the time available for the debate. Thank you again for sharing your thoughts and experiences on this topic."

You can watch the debate here: https://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/57c4f5de-cbe4-4ff6-a133-c08ccfecac78?in=09:29:58
 

Intermodal

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I wonder how long I can make my location on this f
From Stephen Doughty MP: “Dear Rail UK Forums community, I’d like to thank you all for the time and effort you’ve taken to submit these thoughtful and interesting responses. Lots of you have drawn attention to some important issues with the GWR network, and have shared experiences which have helped shape my understanding in the build up to tomorrow’s debate.

Many of these reflect my own concerns and those of my constituents, and I will do my best to represent them in the time available for the debate. Thank you again for sharing your thoughts and experiences on this topic."

You can watch the debate here: https://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/57c4f5de-cbe4-4ff6-a133-c08ccfecac78?in=09:29:58

Fantastic. It's nice that the very first mention Mr Doughty made in the debate was to thank the RailUK forums for their input.
 

Static65

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102
I'm struggling to understand what the reason for this engagement excersize was.

84% of respondents rated GWR as being at least okay, with the majority saying they are good. The overriding theme from the discussion suggests GWR are improving and most of the issues stem from the DfT and yet this was in no way reflected in the debate.

Most people have very little engagement with politics, probably because it is exactly this type of intentional miss-representation of thier views that turns them off whenever they do try to take part.
 
Last edited:

SC43090

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7 Sep 2018
Messages
197
Well that was exciting to watch NOT......

All the MPs who spoke in the debate said what most of us already know, if it was to do with punctuality, Lack of Buffet car, or compensation, or the seats not been comfortable enough on the new trains etc etc............

The speech from the Rail Minister at the end was just a lot of HOT AIR.....

Didn't offer any promises that things would improve in the short term.....

We will just have to wait & see if things will improve with any alterations that may happen in the May timetable change

PS when will there be a debate to do with Northern & Trans Pennine Express in Parliament

SC 43090
 

Envoy

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Surely, a lot of the problems that we see today on the GWR result from the lack of investment during all the years that Labour were in power? It was pretty obvious years ago that the HST’s were coming to the end of their lifespan and that electrification would be the way ahead for the GWR main lines. The whole process of raising bridges and paving the way ahead for the electrification should have started much sooner - especially given that this work had to be done on a very busy working railway.

I am concerned that having now built up the expertise to electrify the railways, that the government will give up on further electrification and all the skills put together for the new workforce will be lost due to a stop / go policy regarding electrification.

Mention was made by Kevin Brennan MP for Cardiff West about the trains running as 2x5 units often with one half having no catering. I understand that when the whole fleet has been delivered that most trains on the south Wales route will be 9 continuous coaches and that only the ‘Red Dragon’ service from/to Carmarthen will be 2x5 so that only 5 coaches can go to the less populated area west of Swansea. 5 coach trains will be used to increase the frequency between Bristol Temple Meads and London via Bristol Parkway and for off -peak Cheltenham to London services (hourly) where at present the Cheltenham/Gloucester services have only been 1 HST every other hour - or a connecting train from Swindon - which increased overcrowding on the south Wales trains. 2x5 coach trains are also likely on services to Plymouth where they also go to Penzance with a split being likely at Plymouth - except during summer peaks. Bedwyn to London is also going to be using the 5 coach trains - which will be a vast improvement on the 165/166’s. So, it would seem that at present, due to the entire fleet not being in service and the new timetable not yet implemented, it is rather too soon to draw conclusions regarding the capacity v loadings of the various services.

The MP for Worcester welcomed the building of Worcester Parkway. This should be all well and good for the north Cotswold line but I am concerned about the Cross Country Cardiff to Nottingham trains which will be the only services (hourly) calling at this new station on the route running north-south. These trains are usually only 2 or 3 coach 170’s and can hardly cope at present. So, this new station could be bad news for those who already use the service - especially those going to/from south Wales/ Gloucester on these direct trains. As well as the prospect of even more overcrowding, the service will also be slower due to having to make an extra stop. It is regrettable that south Wales & Gloucester does not have fast services going to Birmingham > Sheffield > York and Newcastle.

I note that no mention was made in the debate about the 165/166’s going to be used on the Cardiff > Portsmouth service apart form the fact that 5 coach trains (with no through corridor) would be on the route this year. Perhaps interested MP’s should take a short ride on one of these trains and ponder whether they think they are suitable for such a long distance journey serving important cities and towns? This route needs new trains - preferably bi or even tri mode to take advantage of electrification between Cardiff & Bath and Southampton & Portsmouth.
 

HowardGWR

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Yes, one of the main things we commented on was ignored. It's an intercity service trying to be a local /commuter one at the same time. This is due to London not being one of the destinations.
 

jimm

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- lack of any sort of apology to the customers for the appalling service provided. Mark Hopwood has been invisible (save for one - late - letter to the Cotswold Line Promotion Group, which had nothing to do with Lord Faulkner being President and Lord Adonis and David Cameron being vice-presidents of the CLPG) and his management team likewise haven't fronted up.

You're quite right. The publication of that letter on the CLPG website had nothing to do with who the president and vice-presidents of the CLPG are - they had no part in the correspondence between Mark Hopwood and John Ellis, the chairman of the CLPG.

PS when will there be a debate to do with Northern & Trans Pennine Express in Parliament

SC 43090

When an MP asks for a debate about them.

Surely, a lot of the problems that we see today on the GWR result from the lack of investment during all the years that Labour were in power? It was pretty obvious years ago that the HST’s were coming to the end of their lifespan and that electrification would be the way ahead for the GWR main lines. The whole process of raising bridges and paving the way ahead for the electrification should have started much sooner - especially given that this work had to be done on a very busy working railway.

Which government was it that authorised GW electrification in the first place and started the process that led to the development of the IETs? The brief for the DfT under Alastair Darling from 2002-6 was to keep the railways firmly out of the headlines for any reason whatever after the Railtrack debacle - and they were very careful to do so. One might just as well note the lack of investment under the Major government, where nothing happened in the GW area (or anywhere else) after the delivery of the Turbos, because the whole system was in paralysis as a result of the privatisation process.

The MP for Worcester welcomed the building of Worcester Parkway. This should be all well and good for the north Cotswold line but I am concerned about the Cross Country Cardiff to Nottingham trains which will be the only services (hourly) calling at this new station on the route running north-south. These trains are usually only 2 or 3 coach 170’s and can hardly cope at present. So, this new station could be bad news for those who already use the service - especially those going to/from south Wales/ Gloucester on these direct trains. As well as the prospect of even more overcrowding, the service will also be slower due to having to make an extra stop. It is regrettable that south Wales & Gloucester does not have fast services going to Birmingham > Sheffield > York and Newcastle.

Everyone knows the XC service will be inadequate, but then given that capacity on XC services all over the country is inadequate, that's no surprise - with the freezing of the franchise renewal last autumn doing nothing to help matters.
 

43096

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You're quite right. The publication of that letter on the CLPG website had nothing to do with who the president and vice-presidents of the CLPG are - they had no part in the correspondence between Mark Hopwood and John Ellis, the chairman of the CLPG.
So the fact that the President of the CLPG (Lord Faulkner) is also President of the GWR Advisory Board is entirely irrelevant, is it? That "Hapless Hopwood" only bothered to communicate with the CLPG and has not apologised to the rest of his customers is not unconnected, in my view. If you want to believe otherwise and think the sun shines of Hopwood's backside then you are hopelessly naïve.
 

Modron

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A friend of mine lives in Gloucester, and their MP (Richard Graham, Con.) has frequently been asked about the possibility of a new station for Gloucester at Metz Way - possibly a 'Gloucester Parkway' type station or similar.

He is not in favour of it, but has never given a sensible reason as to why not. The 'Railway Triangle' in Gloucester is rapidly being developed and I am sure that a station there would not be impossible - it would save time on XC trains reversing at Gloucester and it wouldn't threaten the existence of the current station which would still be served by existing traffic. The new station could be XC trains ONLY, so as to placate GWR.
 

jimm

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So the fact that the President of the CLPG (Lord Faulkner) is also President of the GWR Advisory Board is entirely irrelevant, is it? That "Hapless Hopwood" only bothered to communicate with the CLPG and has not apologised to the rest of his customers is not unconnected, in my view. If you want to believe otherwise and think the sun shines of Hopwood's backside then you are hopelessly naïve.

I'm really not interested in your conspiracy theories, which are obviously intimately linked to your venomous dislike of GWR, as expressed above, and because I happen to know full well the process by which that letter appeared on the CLPG website.
 

RichT54

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The report of the debate can be found on Hansard:

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commo...03-A2E0-4C381A989A33/GWRAndNetworkPerformance

Stephen Doughty said:
The Minister is chuntering from a sedentary position. The reality is that he has not answered a single question put to him today by Members from across the House and has not engaged with the issues in a serious way, instead simply glossing over them with statistics. He has not answered the serious concerns that have been put. This is very disappointing from the Minister and his Department, but it is what we have come to expect.
 

pompeyfan

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Would people who are unhappy with Turbos on the Portsmouth Cardiff route (I am one of those) be happy with 6.185s instead? ASDO or UDS could be used where needed? Would there be enough units? Would there be any issues with the weight of the 185s and SP differentials on the route? I know it’s about 99.9% unlikely, just speculating.
 
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It was of course very nice of Mr Doughty to name check this forum, but reading the comments made here and his speech yesterday, I don't think he read any of them.

His biggest complaints (and those of other MPs) seem largely at events beyond the control of GWR.

I usually give MPs the benefit of the doubt and listen to them, rather than adopt the 'they're all the same, all a waste of space' attitude that is so common in our country at late. Regrettably Mr Doughty is making me reconsider my views.
 

SamYeager

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It was of course very nice of Mr Doughty to name check this forum, but reading the comments made here and his speech yesterday, I don't think he read any of them.
If you read the posts by the OP it would be abundantly clear that it was researchers who read and summarised the posts in this thread for the benefit of the MP. He himself did not read the thread nor was it ever claimed that he would.
 

Wilts Wanderer

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It is also worth considering that the RailUkForum responses will have made up a very small proportion of the data collected by the honourable member’s team. To expect several people’s views to noticeably alter the overall theme of the discussion would be unrealistic and disproportionate.
 

Wilts Wanderer

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Would people who are unhappy with Turbos on the Portsmouth Cardiff route (I am one of those) be happy with 6.185s instead? ASDO or UDS could be used where needed? Would there be enough units? Would there be any issues with the weight of the 185s and SP differentials on the route? I know it’s about 99.9% unlikely, just speculating.

The Cardiff-Portsmouth route is plagued by a combination of:
- Heavy loadings all day
- Limited capacity for extra timetable paths
- Multiple commuter peaks
- Generally short platforms

Given that the standard-class seating capacity of a 3-car 185 is less than a 2-car 158, you’d need 6-car formations on everything. But then you’d be overlength by one car for Filton Abbey Wood, Bradford-on-Avon, Trowbridge, Warminster and others. This is a route which desperately needs trains which make good use of internal space. The 185s are the polar opposite of this, and therefore the last thing we need.
 

Parallel

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The Cardiff-Portsmouth route is plagued by a combination of:
- Heavy loadings all day
- Limited capacity for extra timetable paths
- Multiple commuter peaks
- Generally short platforms

Given that the standard-class seating capacity of a 3-car 185 is less than a 2-car 158, you’d need 6-car formations on everything. But then you’d be overlength by one car for Filton Abbey Wood, Bradford-on-Avon, Trowbridge, Warminster and others. This is a route which desperately needs trains which make good use of internal space. The 185s are the polar opposite of this, and therefore the last thing we need.
It is a difficult balance to get right on this route. Currently it’s good comfort but poor capacity, but soon to be poor comfort but good capacity. To be honest, the ideal stock for the route would probably be 5 car 158s or 5 car 175s, which would be possible from 2023 (possibly sooner). Unlikely to happen though.
 
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If you read the posts by the OP it would be abundantly clear that it was researchers who read and summarised the posts in this thread for the benefit of the MP. He himself did not read the thread nor was it ever claimed that he would.

Yes, thank you I did read the opening post and know perfectly well it was being organised by (the non-political) support staff in Parliament.

His comments and the comments of his neighbouring MPs were heavily political (ignoring the fact that many of the issues pre-dated 2010 and ignoring the fact many of the issues weren’t raised by the opposition post 2010).

His comments were of course made following posts here and constituency complaints/comments, but his speech did stike a highly critical and partisan tone where as the comments on here are far more neutral and constructive.

What will this debate have achieved? Sweet **** all probably, but he’s got some press coverage and probably helped cement the labour vote in Cardiff South. You’ll excuse me if as I said earlier regrettably I am reassessing my views of politics in general.
 

pompeyfan

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The Cardiff-Portsmouth route is plagued by a combination of:
- Heavy loadings all day
- Limited capacity for extra timetable paths
- Multiple commuter peaks
- Generally short platforms

Given that the standard-class seating capacity of a 3-car 185 is less than a 2-car 158, you’d need 6-car formations on everything. But then you’d be overlength by one car for Filton Abbey Wood, Bradford-on-Avon, Trowbridge, Warminster and others. This is a route which desperately needs trains which make good use of internal space. The 185s are the polar opposite of this, and therefore the last thing we need.


The issue regarding short platforms can quite easily be overcome by use of UDS or ASDO (as is fitted to some other desiro UK stock). I concede your point about 185s not being suitably laid out, although the removal of 1st class could provide some extra seats.
 

HowardGWR

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The Cardiff-Portsmouth route is plagued by a combination of:
- Heavy loadings all day
- Limited capacity for extra timetable paths
- Multiple commuter peaks
- Generally short platforms

Given that the standard-class seating capacity of a 3-car 185 is less than a 2-car 158, you’d need 6-car formations on everything. But then you’d be overlength by one car for Filton Abbey Wood, Bradford-on-Avon, Trowbridge, Warminster and others. This is a route which desperately needs trains which make good use of internal space. The 185s are the polar opposite of this, and therefore the last thing we need.
Agree, but an inter-city service (which is what the cities on this route would like) would not stop at these places, except perhaps Trowbridge (County HQ there). I should be very interested in the proportion of total traffic that is only interested in stops at Cardiff, Newport, Bristol, Bath, Salisbury, Southampton, Portsmouth. Would that justify a two tier service with stoppers from Cardiff to Bristol, Bristol to Salisbury, and so on, connecting with the fasts? How much more inter-city traffic could be won from road if there was such an inter-city service?
 

JN114

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Agree, but an inter-city service (which is what the cities on this route would like) would not stop at these places, except perhaps Trowbridge (County HQ there). I should be very interested in the proportion of total traffic that is only interested in stops at Cardiff, Newport, Bristol, Bath, Salisbury, Southampton, Portsmouth. Would that justify a two tier service with stoppers from Cardiff to Bristol, Bristol to Salisbury, and so on, connecting with the fasts? How much more inter-city traffic could be won from road if there was such an inter-city service?

Anecdotally I think the level of intercity travel on these services is grossly overstated. A cursory read of the reservation labels looking for a seat on one departing Bristol few weeks ago suggested the same seats are reserved several times through the journey; I didn’t see a single label for passengers from Cardiff to travel beyond Bath; after Westbury the train virtually emptied and only filled up again at Southampton.

It’s an overly long commuter route with delusions of being an intercity service. It needs commuter stock with wide doorways and lots of seats; exactly what the Turbos are providing.
 

43096

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Well, it seems at least one of our politicians has worked it out: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-47132948

GWR boss out of touch with its problems, says Labour MP

A rail company boss is "out of touch" with some of the problems faced by his firm, a Welsh Labour MP has claimed.

Stephen Doughty said Great Western Railway managing director Mark Hopwood had been "unwilling" to "get a grip on a litany of failures" in recent years.

GWR said its performance improved by more than 10% in the past six months.

Later, AMs backed Welsh ministers' call for more powers and funding over rail to be devolved to "deliver the railway the people of Wales deserve".

Cardiff South and Penarth MP Mr Doughty led a Westminster Hall debate on GWR's performance on Tuesday in which MPs criticised delays, overcrowding and ticket costs.

Train cancellations have more than doubled for some weekend and bank holiday services between Wales and England, figures have shown.

Mr Doughty said there had been "substantial problems" on the network over the past few years and that services were "not good enough".

"I'm sorry to say that the managing director of GWR Mark Hopwood appears fairly out of touch on some of the problems that are being faced and unwilling or unable to get a grip on a litany of failures over the last few years," he said.

Recent research shows passenger satisfaction with GWR has fallen to its lowest level in more than a decade.

The report by independent transport user watchdog Transport Focus shows only 78% of rail users are satisfied - the lowest since 2007.

There are also twice as many delayed and cancelled trains as almost 10 years ago.

Newport East Labour MP Jessica Morden said she had raised the issues of overcrowding and reliability with Mr Hopwood and that he had been "attentive to these particular problems".

Bristol South MP Karin Smyth said: "Increasingly I'm seeing complaints from people using the network to commute to London, Chippenham, Bath etc.

"This feeling of who is responsible is upsetting people."

A Great Western Railway spokesman said: "Mr Doughty is right that performance last year was not good enough. Our customers have every right to be frustrated and we're really sorry to anyone affected.

"As a result, we worked with our partners across the industry to put a performance improvement plan in place.

"While there is still more to do, this has seen us move from delivering 72% of our trains between South Wales and Paddington on time six months ago (June 2018) to over 90% today (Dec/Jan 2019)."

'South-east bias'
Later, on Tuesday evening, assembly members backed the Welsh Government's submission to Keith Williams's review of the rail industry ordered by UK ministers last autumn.

Welsh Government Transport Minister Ken Skates, who will meet Mr Williams next week, said the current rail funding system was "broken".

"The model that's been adopted for infrastructure across Britain for many, many years has been biased towards the more intensely urbanised areas of the country and they, generally, lie in the south-east of England," said Mr Skates.

Calling for the "rail devolution settlement" to be brought "into the twenty-first century" he said Welsh ministers should be given "the powers and the funding we need to deliver the railway the people of Wales deserve".

But Conservative AM Russell George accused the minister of "rhetoric", when in reality UK ministers were "investing record amounts in Wales' railway infrastructure" including £5.7bn in "brand new InterCity express trains, which will cut journey times from south Wales to London by 15 minutes".
 

LLB

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Don't use the GWR services too often, but when i do they are not too bad. Especially now with the new stock being introduced.
 
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