Anniversary of Harrow Rail Crash

[Busaholic]

I do think though that even now, when faced directly with a horrifying situation most people do react sensibly - apart from the ones who stand around videoing the scene instead of helping or getting out of the way.

I think you're right: as for people photographing or videoing the scene in those circumstances (excepting true news professionals) I'd reserve a special place in hell.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I think you're right: as for people photographing or videoing the scene in those circumstances (excepting true news professionals) I'd reserve a special place in hell.

If you read Tatlow's book (excellent) , on the recovery at Harrow - there were real issues with low flying planes charted by news media companies - low flying the accident site.

 

[Busaholic]

If you read Tatlow's book (excellent) , on the recovery at Harrow - there were real issues with low flying planes charted by news media companies - low flying the accident site.

Yes, a fine line... I haven't read the book you mention, but shall seek it out. I'm not a morbid person, but as two separate major railway accidents in London did impinge on my life (plus an IRA train bombing that meant I missed a vital job interview) I do feel drawn to the subject, albeit it with some reluctance.

 

[Jimbob52]

This week brings the anniversary of the worst peace time railway accident, the double collision at Harrow and Wealdstone on 8th October 1952. Please remember the families whose lives may still be affected by the disaster.

This time last year I asked if anyone had information about the signalman who witnessed the collision and this led to several posts with many memories.

I wonder if, this year, anyone has information about those who had lucky escapes. I believe the fireman on the second locomotive of the double headed express recovered and went on to be a BR driver; and the guard of the local train took evasive action by jumping off the platform when he saw the Perth express approaching.

L F E Coombs book (‘The Harrow Railway Disaster 1952’) also mentions the manager of the bookstall who saw the accident at very close quarters.

Do any members have any information or memories?

 

[36270k]

The original MOT reports can be found at https://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/

 

[Dr_Paul]

One of my dad's work colleagues was on the suburban train that was hit by the up express. He was unhurt, and even turned up to work that morning.

 

[Alfie1014]

I worked with someone at BR at Euston in the early 1980s that was a passenger on the local at Harrow but escaped with minor injuries. Unbelievably both he and his wife were on the train that derailed at Buttevant in Ireland in 1980, this time with more serious injuries though.

 

[DerekC]

Three of my dad's former schoolmates were killed in the rear carriage of the Tring-Euston local. He pointed them out to me once on his class photo. That's where they always sat for their commute. I think another one was on the train further forward and survived, but I don't know any more than that.

 

[Taunton]

I worked with someone at BR at Euston in the early 1980s that was a passenger on the local at Harrow but escaped with minor injuries.

I believe this morning commuter service into Euston carried a lot of BR office staff who worked there at the onetime LMS HQ, who lived beyond Watford, and who all commonly travelled in the rear carriage together which they regarded as something of a club arrangement for themselves. Possibly as they were travelling on BR staff passes it was felt appropriate that they should all do so in the vehicle furthest from the Euston barriers. This accounts for the large number of casualties who were actually railway staff, although recorded as passengers.

 

[jumble]

This week brings the anniversary of the worst peace time railway accident, the double collision at Harrow and Wealdstone on 8th October 1952. Please remember the families whose lives may still be affected by the disaster.

This time last year I asked if anyone had information about the signalman who witnessed the collision and this led to several posts with many memories.

I wonder if, this year, anyone has information about those who had lucky escapes. I believe the fireman on the second locomotive of the double headed express recovered and went on to be a BR driver; and the guard of the local train took evasive action by jumping off the platform when he saw the Perth express approaching.

L F E Coombs book (‘The Harrow Railway Disaster 1952’) also mentions the manager of the bookstall who saw the accident at very close quarters.

Do any members have any information or memories?

If one goes to Harrow and Wealdstone today one can see plenty of evidence of the crash by looking at repairs
Some rivetted sections of the bridge have been welded and the stone of platform faces changes very distinctly

 

[contrex]

I think you're right: as for people photographing or videoing the scene in those circumstances (excepting true news professionals) I'd reserve a special place in hell.

Some years ago, in France, Normandy I think, a woman drowned in a river near a camp site, and a number of people stood there and videoed her struggles in the water. The police arrived, and confiscated every camera they could see. They played back the footage on each and if they saw the drowning, the owner was prosecuted for non-assistance à personne en danger - 'failing to provide assistance to a person in danger'. This law is not normally applied to people who were present but didn't help (perhaps they couldn't swim, etc) but local feeling was such that the decision was taken to prosecute, and fines were imposed.

 

[Clarence Yard]

One of my dad's work colleagues was on the suburban train that was hit by the up express. He was unhurt, and even turned up to work that morning.

On of my teacher's at school in the 1960's was on the platform seeing his wife off on the local before he took the Bakerloo - they were towards the London end of the platform. She got on and, in his words, suddenly the train shot forward in front of his eyes. His wife fell inside the train and sustained a broken arm. He felt, considering what happened to others on that day, that they had been very lucky.

 

[Dr_Paul]

When you look back at the 1950s there were so many rail accidents (particularly on the former LMS lines), but then there were other terrible events like the Lynmouth floods, the North Sea floods etc that must have filled the papers also.

What is also astonishing is the number of air crashes there were in the 1950s and into the 1960s. The Aviation Safety Database gives comprehensive details of aeroplane accidents. Flying is very much safer today, as is rail travel.

As someone mentioned the Lewisham accident later on in the 1950s, I'll add that another of my dad's work colleagues was involved in that one. He was, however, badly injured, he was pushed out of a window, and spent some time dangling upside-down by his feet, which were still trapped inside the carriage, until he was rescued. Several people near him didn't survive.

 

[Kingspanner]

Some years ago, in France, Normandy I think, a woman drowned in a river near a camp site, and a number of people stood there and videoed her struggles in the water. The police arrived, and confiscated every camera they could see. They played back the footage on each and if they saw the drowning, the owner was prosecuted for non-assistance à personne en danger - 'failing to provide assistance to a person in danger'. This law is not normally applied to people who were present but didn't help (perhaps they couldn't swim, etc) but local feeling was such that the decision was taken to prosecute, and fines were imposed.

In his book about Henry Blogg of Cromer, Cyril Jolly recounts a tale of the sinking of a ship off the beach at the town on a winter's night with mountainous seas during WWII. Townsfolk saw a sailor making for shore in a small boat which overturned in the surf. Bystanders formed a human chain and waded into the freezing waters, some up to their necks to pull a total stranger to safety. This was at no small cost to themselves, one of the rescuers was nearly drowned himself.

I have often thought that these days the bystanders would be too busy taking pictures and putting them on Instagram to do anything remotely as heroic. But then there's this https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-53880284
(For those who cannot see that item it is a BBC account of a rescue made by human chain at Durdle Doors beach in August this year).

Beachgoers have described the moment a human chain was formed and saved a man's life when he got into difficulty in the sea.

"And it was at that point that a lot of people started gathering and sort of forming this chain."

 

[Watford West]

I think humanity does rise to the occasion still, although the advent of instant recording devices (phones) does seem to get in the way at times!
Returning to the original theme of the Harrow crash, I am too young to remember it, but living in Watford we were fairly close and i'm pretty sure that there were some casualties that my mum and dad knew. I always recall that my Mum said that her memory of the weather of that day was very strong - ie it had started out quite misty, but had then cleared to a lovely day. I think that she vividly remembered that all her life

 

[jumble]

What is also astonishing is the number of air crashes there were in the 1950s and into the 1960s. The Aviation Safety Database gives comprehensive details of aeroplane accidents. Flying is very much safer today, as is rail travel.

As someone mentioned the Lewisham accident later on in the 1950s, I'll add that another of my dad's work colleagues was involved in that one. He was, however, badly injured, he was pushed out of a window, and spent some time dangling upside-down by his feet, which were still trapped inside the carriage, until he was rescued. Several people near him didn't survive.

We must put rails safety into context
I believe that more people are killed on the roads each year in UK than have been killed in total in the UK by the railways since they began

 

[Kingspanner]

I'm not sure about that. Get your abacus out and have a look here (the URL is self explanatory) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rail_accidents_in_the_United_Kingdom
Road deaths in the UK are down to about 1800 per annum according to https://assets.publishing.service.g...485/road-casualties-year-ending-june-2019.pdf which is the Government's latest data up to June 2019. This, by the way, is regarded as good data, very few fatal RTCs escape official attention.

 

[Busaholic]

Some years ago, in France, Normandy I think, a woman drowned in a river near a camp site, and a number of people stood there and videoed her struggles in the water. The police arrived, and confiscated every camera they could see. They played back the footage on each and if they saw the drowning, the owner was prosecuted for non-assistance à personne en danger - 'failing to provide assistance to a person in danger'. This law is not normally applied to people who were present but didn't help (perhaps they couldn't swim, etc) but local feeling was such that the decision was taken to prosecute, and fines were imposed.

The French are capable on occasion of seizing the bull by the horns and taking actions which might be considered draconian or 'over the top' by us, but they justify them (rightly, imo) by arguing it's pour encourager les autres and I'd submit they have more than a point, in that a repetition of this sort of behaviour would be very unlikely for the foreseeable future by anyone who'd remembered.

 

[Dr_Paul]

The French are capable on occasion of seizing the bull by the horns and taking actions which might be considered draconian or 'over the top' by us, but they justify them (rightly, imo) by arguing it's pour encourager les autres and I'd submit they have more than a point, in that a repetition of this sort of behaviour would be very unlikely for the foreseeable future by anyone who'd remembered.

France isn't the only country to have such a law. The Soviet Union had a similar one, making it a criminal offence not to assist someone who is in difficulties.

 

[contrex]

France isn't the only country to have such a law. The Soviet Union had a similar one, making it a criminal offence not to assist someone who is in difficulties.

As of 2012, Albania, Andorra, Argentina, Austria, Belgium, Brazil, Bulgaria, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Israel, Italy, the Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Russia, Serbia, Spain, Switzerland and Tunisia have a legal requirement for citizens to assist people in distress, unless doing so would put themselves or others in harm's way.

 

[Trackman]

There’s a good article which has a significant section about this very subject on the London Reconnections site:
https://www.londonreconnections.com...ldstone-disaster-helped-shape-modern-britain/
...well worth a read, it was written for the 60th anniversary.

Excellent read, cheers.
Gawd knows what went through the signallers head.
Also, slightly OT: are detonator placers still used anywhere on the network?