Annual Gold Card Refund

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cmmercer

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Hi everyone, I hope that someone can help me. I am trying to calculate how much I will get refunded from my season ticket when I trade it in.

Annual ticket was purchased on a season ticket loan from my employer on 22/12/2011 for the cost of £2120

I am leaving my current employment and have no need for any train tickets at all from the minute I step off the train home on the 24/07/2012.

My current employers will probably take the full remaining balance off of my final pay on 22/07 which is darn inconvenient to say the least. However, I need to try and work out how much I am actually going to end up out of pocket at the end of the process as we are also in the process of moving house over the summer. I know, nightmare!

Is someone able to advise how much refund I would be due on this ticket? I have had a search through the forum, but don't necessarily understand some of the formulas that have been discussed.

Many thanks, Chris
 
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bb21

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Without the origin and destination on your ticket, we are unable to work out the refund.
 

bb21

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Is 22/12/11 also the start date of your ticket?
 

gnolife

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I didn't know you could get tickets from Redhill to Elephant that specifically excluded travel via Llandanwg :D

You'll get what was paid less the cost of what you used (7 months 3 days).
This is 2120 - 1516.30 = 603.70
 

island

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I didn't know you could get tickets from Redhill to Elephant that specifically excluded travel via Llandanwg :D

You'll get what was paid less the cost of what you used (7 months 3 days).
This is 2120 - 1516.30 = 603.70

£1516.30 is the current price. It will be calculated with respect to the 2011 prices, and there is also a £10 admin fee.
 
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bb21

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22/12/11 to 24/7/12 is a total of 7 months and 3 days. Had this been purchased at the beginning, it would have cost you £1444.85 by my calculation. (Might be some rounding errors up to less than £1.)

So your refund due is 2120 - 1444.85 - 10 (admin charge) = 665.15

This is what you would get back if you submit your ticket for refund on 24th July.

This is 2120 - 1516.30 = 603.70

The prevailing weekly rate would have been from NFM10, ie. £53 per week.
 

island

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22/12/11 to 24/7/12 is a total of 7 months and 3 days. Had this been purchased at the beginning, it would have cost you £1444.85 by my calculation. (Might be some rounding errors up to less than 50p.)

So your refund due is 2120 - 1444.85 - 10 (admin charge) = 665.15

Is that the NFM10 price? Base price £53 per week. I don't know the multipliers.
 
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bb21

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Is that the NFM10 price? Base price £53 per week. I don't know the multipliers.

Yes, it is.

Multipliers for one month is 3.84 and a single day is 0.13 (0.12 for every fifth day but not applicable here). (I used 0.128 but the rounding error would not be huge.)
 

MikeWh

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Is it worth swapping to a ticket to Ryde? I'm going out in a mo, but hopefully someone can do the maths.
 

bb21

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Is it worth swapping to a ticket to Ryde? I'm going out in a mo, but hopefully someone can do the maths.

Season Ticket Changeover 1

Redhill - Elephant & Castle
Annual: £2120
Effective daily rate (366 days): £5.79

Ryde Esplanade - Ryde St John's Road
Annual: £140
Effective daily rate (366 days): £0.38

Refund per day: £5.41

Total days used: 226
Total days refunded: 366 - 226 = 140

Total refund: 5.41 x 140 = 757.40

Season Ticket Changeover 2

Redhill - Elephant & Castle
Annual: £2120
Effective daily rate (366 days): £5.79

Lichfield City - Lichfield Trent Valley
Annual: £108
Effective daily rate (366 days): £0.30
Refund per day: £5.49

Total days used: 226
Total days refunded: 366 - 226 = 140

Total refund: 5.49 x 140 = 768.60

So yes, it would seem that a season ticket changeover, rather than a refund, would be better. Whether the OP switches to the Ryde ticket or the Lichfield ticket depends on whether he/she wants to retain Gold Card benefits.
 

cmmercer

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OK, so that's interesting. So if I go to the ticket office on 24/07 and ask to change this ticket to a Ryde annual ticket I will hold onto a gold card for ticket savings in the future, and also get £760 back by way of a refund?

I may fancy a wander on the trains up to London town every now-and-then, so I guess a card which will get me a discount wouldn't hurt, especially if I am going to get more of a refund than if I just simply returned my card. Seems a no-brainer, is it a common loophole?
 

bb21

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That is correct.

A changeover is not a loophole per se. It usually becomes more cost effective towards the end of the validity period compared to a straight refund, but not always at the beginning of the validity period. In addition, a changeover can only be done if there is at least one month's validity remaining on the season ticket. Once you have used your annual ticket for 11 months of the 12, you will get no money back as a refund will have no value after 10 months 13 days.

Please make sure that you check with your employer the arrangements for changes to your travel product as they might want it done through their agent.

Please make sure that you tell the agent you want a Season Ticket Changeover and not a refund. Not all of them are aware of the difference at first sight.
 

34D

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Please make sure that you check with your employer the arrangements for changes to your travel product as they might want it done through their agent.

It may also be worth clarifying with your employer whether you can return the ticket to them and get no deduction, or whether they will indeed take the lot out of your final pay.

Based on annual £2120, £173 per month deducted from salary, and 7 months gone already, then if they are going to deduct the 5 remaining months (total £883) you are best off seeing if they'll keep the ticket (if my maths is right which it probably isn't).

I'm still waiting for an employer whom I left in june 2007 to ask me to pay back the 6 remaining months on my annual season :p
 
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Paul Kelly

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Without the origin and destination on your ticket, we are unable to work out the refund.

I don't agree! The original price and the dates are enough, as far as I can see:

Annual price: £2120

Divide by 40 to get weekly base rate: £53.00

22 December 2011 to 24 July 2012 is nice and easy to work out: 7 months and 3 days.

Work out the price of a 07M03D season ticket using the formula:

[3.84 x (no. of whole months) + 0.64 x (no. of 5-day periods) + 0.13 x (no. of remaining days)] x weekly base rate
with the result rounded up to the next 10p:

(3.84 x 7 + 0.13 * 3) x 53
= (26.88 + 0.39) x 53
= £1,445.31
With rounding, £1,445.40.

Refund amount is £2120.00 - £1445.40 - £10 admin fee = £664.60
 

kieron

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A changeover is not a loophole per se.
A changeover is a procedure designed to let you retain the use of a season ticket in a cost-effective manner if the start or end of your regular commute changes.

The facility to use this to obtain a larger refund from a season ticket than is possible from the refund procedure (as referred to in this thread) is certainly a loophole, and I expect that it would be made less effective if the procedure ever became widely known.
 

rdwarr

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A changeover is a procedure designed to let you retain the use of a season ticket in a cost-effective manner if the start or end of your regular commute changes.

The facility to use this to obtain a larger refund from a season ticket than is possible from the refund procedure (as referred to in this thread) is certainly a loophole, and I expect that it would be made less effective if the procedure ever became widely known.

I agree. The NRE website says:

If you move house, change your place of work or wish to change the class of travel, you may apply to exchange any Season Ticket with a month or more remaining, for one with the same expiry date for your new journey or class. This is called a changeover.

It's clear that none of the above reasons apply in this case.
 

hairyhandedfool

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The Op has not said if a new job is lined up, it is therefore not clear if this is simply 'changing his place of work'.
 

bb21

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I don't agree! ...

OK, clever thing. :D

I clearly did not think this through.

A changeover is a procedure designed to let you retain the use of a season ticket in a cost-effective manner if the start or end of your regular commute changes.

The facility to use this to obtain a larger refund from a season ticket than is possible from the refund procedure (as referred to in this thread) is certainly a loophole, and I expect that it would be made less effective if the procedure ever became widely known.

Yes, I see your point and accept your reasons, however this whole thing about loopholes is all subjective anyway.

I don't consider this a proper loophole, hence the phrase "per se", as this is not something that can be taken advantage of under all circumstances. It would not always be cost effective if the season ticket was surrendered nearer the beginning of its validity.

Of course, as I said, it really is just down to a difference in opinion which is unlikely to have major practical implications as things currently stand, outside a discussion about semantics.
 

cmmercer

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The Op has not said if a new job is lined up, it is therefore not clear if this is simply 'changing his place of work'.

I am starting a new job - and moving house. (Though not anywhere near Ryde)

Sadly, I don't think current employers have any desire to keep hold of a part used ticket - will be very quick to take the remaining money off me in my final wage, and screw up current rental payments. - and I don't have to go through them or an operator, when I bought a ticket they just gave me a cheque and I went to the Redhill office to buy my ticket.
 

OwlMan

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I am starting a new job - and moving house. (Though not anywhere near Ryde)

Sadly, I don't think current employers have any desire to keep hold of a part used ticket - will be very quick to take the remaining money off me in my final wage, and screw up current rental payments. - and I don't have to go through them or an operator, when I bought a ticket they just gave me a cheque and I went to the Redhill office to buy my ticket.

You could always change to a ticket near your new house that you could use.
 

Mr Spock

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The OP has said that once he steps off the train on 24/7 he will have no need of any train tickets - "I am leaving my current employment and have no need for any train tickets at all from the minute I step off the train home on the 24/07/2012".

Therefore by transferring his season ticket to another one it must be considered that he is using a loophole.
 

34D

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The OP has said that once he steps off the train on 24/7 he will have no need of any train tickets - "I am leaving my current employment and have no need for any train tickets at all from the minute I step off the train home on the 24/07/2012".

Therefore by transferring his season ticket to another one it must be considered that he is using a loophole.

Well it may be the case that there is an affordable season near his new home, which may allow him to visit the nearest town for free, etc etc.

Worth a look, if hed care to advise the new location here?

Would be a shame to loose him as a rail passenger altogether.
 

cmmercer

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OK, so I've had a bit of a look into this - the cheapest local(ish) ticket to me would be Dorking West to Dorking Deepdene (I could probably walk between the two quicker than the train). But this comes to £304 for an annual season ticket.

So would my maths be correct in assuming that I should receive a £694 refund, and will benefit from a Gold ticket that continues to get me discounted rail fare on any trips into that there london town should I decide to pay a visit?
 

Paul Kelly

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£304 is the current price. The changeover refund will be calculated at the price in force at the time you bought your current season ticket, which was £288.

So, rough calculation:

2120 - 288 = £1832 difference

/365 = £5.02 per day difference

7 * 30 + 3 = 213 days used

[All years are assumed to have 365 days and all months 30 days, for changeover calculations]

(365 - 213) = 152 days to be refunded
152 * 5.02 = approx £763 refunded

And you will be doing a favour to Dorking West's annual passenger usage statistics! (It's always in the bottom 10 in the country because all the tickets issued to/from "Dorking Stations" are allocated to one of the other stations in Dorking...)
 

jenny21

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Hi, Does anyone know if a refund is payable when changing over a duplicate season ticket?
 

oversteer

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I would be shocked if it was not treated the same as an original ticket.

Have you been told it's not possible? The value of £0.00 listed on the ticket shouldn't pose a problem. You may find it easier to go to the station that issued it, or another operated by the same train company, as they will have the full records of when the original ticket was issued.
 
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