Another break of journey question

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najaB

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Is a cross-city walk a BOJ? Let's say I was traveling from Aberdeen to London via Glasgow. The journey planner gives me an hour plus to make the connection. The Scotrail service is 61 minutes late, but I'm able to run and make the connection.

Would I be within my rights to claim delay repay based on the fact that I had planned to do something (e.g. get lunch) while Glasgow during my BOJ, or is it classed as a connection that wasn't missed, therefore no delay repay?
 
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Merseysider

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You will not be treated as breaking your journey if you leave the station to join a train at another station.

No delay to the overall journey to London would mean no delay repay payable. However, in my view, you are within your rights to not run to make the connection, and if it's missed, then delay repay would kick in for the through Abd-London journey.
 

PermitToTravel

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I'm not entirely sure, but it sounds as though you may be making a journey to Glasgow and another from Glasgow (IIRC the BoJ definition in the CoC mentions walking to another station, and doesn't make provision for doing other things on the way). If that's the case, then you can get DR on your first journey.

The above interpretation probably doesn't hold if you still get to London on time...
 

najaB

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You will not be treated as breaking your journey if you leave the station to join a train at another station.
That was my initial take on it, but then I thought about how restrictions are worded - it's usually 'no break of journey except for connection purposes' which reads as if it is actually a BOJ, just one that is specially allowed.
 

Agent_c

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You're still "In the network" and making a journey, you haven't exited it for another reason.
 

najaB

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You're still "In the network" and making a journey, you haven't exited it for another reason.
A bit of devil's advocate... Absent any other delay, if I take too long walking and miss my connection, is the railway obligated to let me take the next train as I've been delayed 'in the network'?
 

maniacmartin

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You're breaking your journey if you plan to do something else (e.g. to get lunch)

If you wanted to travel directly from one station to another and it is an officially recognised National Rail walking interchange, then that is not a break of journey
 

yorkie

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You're breaking your journey if you plan to do something else (e.g. to get lunch)

If you wanted to travel directly from one station to another and it is an officially recognised National Rail walking interchange, then that is not a break of journey
Agreed.

I suppose the argument could bethat lunch was to be obtained from an outlet within Glasgow Central station (use of such an outlet would not, in itself, constitute a break of journey) however if either train had catering, that might be a tricky case to make. It will boil down to what is seen as reasonable. And if someone was to push it, the terms could potentially get re-written.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
A bit of devil's advocate... Absent any other delay, if I take too long walking and miss my connection, is the railway obligated to let me take the next train as I've been delayed 'in the network'?
If you give me an example journey and reasoning I will give you my opinion on the matter. The question is far too vague to answer.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
That was my initial take on it, but then I thought about how restrictions are worded - it's usually 'no break of journey except for connection purposes' which reads as if it is actually a BOJ, just one that is specially allowed.
I agree it could be interpreted to read that way, but it certainly is not a BOJ.

Another interpretation is that if you are making such a connection you are then permitted to break your journey (e.g. you are permitted to obtain lunch at an outlet not at a station, when walking between stations).

A third interpretation is that the person who wrote that either understand the definition of BOJ. This is perhaps the most likely scenario, based on experience ;)
 

najaB

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If you give me an example journey and reasoning I will give you my opinion on the matter. The question is far too vague to answer.
Okay, let's use cross-Newark as an example. Suppose that I'm travelling from York to Carlton tomorrow leaving at 17:50 on an Advance ticket. I'd arrive Newark Northgate at 1902 and leave Castle at 1947. 45 minutes is plenty to get between the stations, but I have a terrible sense of direction (or maybe a broken leg) and end up missing the train.

Would I be allowed to take the later connection or forced to buy a new ticket? I know what the answer is when the delay occurred on the railway, and I know what I would *like* the answer to be, but would the TOC be obliged to let me take the later train?
 

bb21

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If the train is late and minimum connection is broken, then I believe internal advice is to treat as missed connection.

Just need to find that piece of paper.
 

AlterEgo

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A bit of devil's advocate... Absent any other delay, if I take too long walking and miss my connection, is the railway obligated to let me take the next train as I've been delayed 'in the network'?

No - it's the same as failing a connection at a station where you had sufficient time.

Obviously if there were extenuating circumstances (sickness, got run over by a bus, killed by falling Acme safe etc), you'd expect the TOC to show some goodwill and allow travel.
 

trainophile

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I sometimes have a ticket which gives me just over half an hour to walk from Wigan North Western to Wigan Wallgate, which can be done in about five minutes easily.

If I nip up the road and pop into M&S for a sandwich, before returning to Wallgate, I would hope this would be permitted!
 

AlterEgo

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I sometimes have a ticket which gives me just over half an hour to walk from Wigan North Western to Wigan Wallgate, which can be done in about five minutes easily.

If I nip up the road and pop into M&S for a sandwich, before returning to Wallgate, I would hope this would be permitted!

Of course it's permitted, just don't take half an hour about it.
 

yorkie

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I sometimes have a ticket which gives me just over half an hour to walk from Wigan North Western to Wigan Wallgate, which can be done in about five minutes easily.

If I nip up the road and pop into M&S for a sandwich, before returning to Wallgate, I would hope this would be permitted!
Technically by a strict interpretation it may not be permitted (except with permission*) but in practice, it would be fine!

* A method of seeking permission could be to ask a question such as, in this case "Is there a shop selling sandwiches nearby?" or in other cases "is there anywhere where I can go for a cigarette" but when doing an out of station interchange there is arguably no need to ask, as common sense has to over-ride a nonsensical strict interpretation of the rules in my opinion.
 

Bletchleyite

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As far as I have experienced it over the years, no BoJ just means don't drag your heels. I have never been refused being able to pop out of the station to get food or similar when I was changing trains anyway.


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47271

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After all these years of bleakness changing at Wigan, the news that there's an M&S out there in the distance somewhere is the most significant takeaway I have from this thread. Thank you for that.

Anyway, if we want to talk about odd rambling connections that can go wrong by a fine margin and through confusion, nothing quite compares with Warrington Bank Quay to Warrington Central...
 

trainophile

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After all these years of bleakness changing at Wigan, the news that there's an M&S out there in the distance somewhere is the most significant takeaway I have from this thread. Thank you for that.

Anyway, if we want to talk about odd rambling connections that can go wrong by a fine margin and through confusion, nothing quite compares with Warrington Bank Quay to Warrington Central...

I always put "avoiding Warrington" in the route selector, for one thing I've heard it is quite a hike, similar to the ridiculous connection between Burscough Bridge and Junction. I think there should be a maximum through ticket walking connection of 10-15 minutes. I do feel sorry for elderly folk who know no different and find themselves having to haul luggage for nearly a mile at Burscough.

I love Wigan, what's wrong with it? :lol:
 

Bletchleyite

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Why would you seek to bar the Burscough connection when it is the quickest way from Ormskirk to Manchester by a significant margin? Just ensure the planners warn about the walking time and distance.


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185143

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After all these years of bleakness changing at Wigan, the news that there's an M&S out there in the distance somewhere is the most significant takeaway I have from this thread. Thank you for that.

Anyway, if we want to talk about odd rambling connections that can go wrong by a fine margin and through confusion, nothing quite compares with Warrington Bank Quay to Warrington Central...

Don't get me started on the Warrington stations connection! If the WCML goes Tango Uniform (most journeys) and the train is anything other than on time, assuming you have the minimum connection time, you will miss your train. And that's if you know the routes because you live in Warrington
 
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