Another driver asleep on Croydon Tramlink

Discussion in 'Other Public Transport' started by maniacmartin, 19 May 2017.

  1. jbc

    jbc Member

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    For inadvertently falling asleep? What if he's got some sort of medical problem? Frankly I find you passing judgment without the facts appalling.
     
  2. physics34

    physics34 Established Member

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    is it possible he is passing in the rear cab????
     
  3. SA_900

    SA_900 Member

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    Yes for falling asleep- seven people died on the same line.

    At least 4 drivers have admitted falling asleep while operating trams in Croydon- and I hope none of them are still employed
     
  4. D1009

    D1009 Established Member

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    That's why trains have a vigilance device.
     
  5. jbc

    jbc Member

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    Has it been proved that the fatal crash was caused by a driver falling asleep?

    Anybody could fall asleep.
     
  6. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Established Member

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    There is no proof that the driver was actually asleep either during the crash incident, or that the chap in the video here was asleep either.
     
  7. BestWestern

    BestWestern Established Member

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    Has it occured to you that very probably most of Tramlink's drivers have fallen asleep at some time, hence the above revelation? If they are all routinely suffering with fatigue, should the entire roster be sacked? How would you propose that things would be any better with replacement staff?
     
    Last edited: 19 May 2017
  8. SA_900

    SA_900 Member

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    I'm certain the culture is terrible and management should be replaced. But that doesn't absolve any individual. Bankers tend to use a similar defence
     
  9. jbc

    jbc Member

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    You seem to be jumping to a ridiculous amount of conclusions.

    Do you actually know anything about the culture and management?
     
  10. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Established Member

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    You don't know they were asleep and not suffering from a medical episode.
     
  11. rebmcr

    rebmcr Established Member

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    Weasel words alert.
     
  12. SA_900

    SA_900 Member

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    A number of operators have already admitted to falling asleep due to shift patterns. Are we to believe there is also an epidemic of narcolepsy? A remarkable coincidence if so
     
  13. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Established Member

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    I'm talking about the specific incidents - the crash, and this one. You do not know and you are just going off your own conjecture and presenting them as certainties and facts. They are neither.
     
  14. Ploughman

    Ploughman Established Member

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    Next time someone films them, don't just film for 3 minutes.
    Film for about 1 - 1.30 then bang on the window to see if you get a reaction.
    That should settle any argument about sleep or medical episode.
     
  15. philthetube

    philthetube Member

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    Does anyone know the legal hours a tram driver is allowed to work, I know it is a lot less strict than for an underground driver but have no idea how it compares with bus or lorry drivers. I suspect tram drivers are allowed to do more hours and take less breaks.
     
  16. theageofthetra

    theageofthetra Established Member

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    Why did a vigilance alarm not go off as it would in a train cab? -do trams have it linked to send a message via GSMR?
     
  17. Domh245

    Domh245 Established Member

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    The tram vigilance device is the handle, it has to be depressed when in motion, otherwise an alarm sounds and the brakes apply. If stationary, it doesn't function.
     
  18. jbc

    jbc Member

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    I suspect many tram drivers have fallen asleep momentarily. They are hardly going to admit it if they are going to be prosecuted and jailed as you suggested.
     
  19. Richard_B

    Richard_B Member

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    Once is an accident, twice a coincidence, three times is a pattern. But 4!!! The 4th falling asleep suggests Anyone in charge of rostering and driver numbers should sacked before this chap.
     
  20. cjmillsnun

    cjmillsnun Established Member

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    So?

    You knock on the glass and ask if he is OK. It could've been a medical issue.
     
  21. jbc

    jbc Member

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    Apparently people did knock on the glass?
     
  22. Darandio

    Darandio Established Member

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    Yes, but it seems only after they got what they needed to send to the papers.
     
  23. cjmillsnun

    cjmillsnun Established Member

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    Exactly. And that could've been the difference between life and death had it actually been a medical issue.
     
  24. dragonblyth

    dragonblyth Member

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    So what is your suggestion? The passengers should have broken down the door to the cab to check on the driver?

    If reporting it to the press has a positive effect by putting it firmly in the public forum so it can't be ignored, is that not a good thing?
     
  25. cjmillsnun

    cjmillsnun Established Member

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    Knock on the glass and ask if he is OK. Don't just sit there filming it.
     
  26. Robertj21a

    Robertj21a Established Member

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    Agreed, but it seems that there were a number of people there at the time. No reason why they can't be checking up on him while someone else is filming the situation - for the record that could be very helpful. I don't think anybody has suggested that just one person realised the problem - and then simply filmed it.
     
  27. jbc

    jbc Member

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    Well I wasn't there at the time so I don't feel qualified to pass judgment although that clearly doesn't matter to you:roll:
     
  28. Chrisgr31

    Chrisgr31 Established Member

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    I wondered how many train drivers have fallen asleep. They have the advantage of being more hidden away so less likely to be filmed!
     
  29. keith1879

    keith1879 Member

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    If by "In the past" you mean on a traditional tram then falling asleep would be more or less impossible as the drivers were mostly stood up and sometimes in the open.
    The thing that strikes me is that we are hearing a lot about Croydon tram drivers but not about Metrolink, Nottingham, Sheffield and so forth. So surely it is worth considering whether the routes, the trams the working hours or some combination are especially conducive to this in Croydon.

    The results of such a study should be useful to staff unions and management.
     
  30. WatcherZero

    WatcherZero Established Member

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    UK road passenger vehicle rules are the relevant ones I believe.
    https://www.gov.uk/drivers-hours/gb-domestic-rules

    There is also EU rules which are stricter (45m break every 4.5 hours with limit of 9 hours per day with two 10 hour days but no more than 56 hours per week with no more than 90 hours in two consecutive weeks and a minimum of 11 hours rest a day) but UK has an exemption.
     

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