Another lorry through the barriers at Manningtree

[robbeech]

80% of drivers do not stop at red traffic lights !

Never realised it was so high. Or are we just saying that because road vehicles are the devil himself?

If you knew the driver stopped and had reported him self a lot earlier in the thread why did you not say so?

I must admit I didn’t spot it earlier but it could be missed I suppose, it was a busy topic initially.
So really, there’s no evidence that points to anyone having to chase anyone, and no indication that any costs won’t be recovered from the driver / their immediate employer.

 

[LAX54]

Never realised it was so high. Or are we just saying that because road vehicles are the devil himself?
I must admit I didn’t spot it earlier but it could be missed I suppose, it was a busy topic initially.
So really, there’s no evidence that points to anyone having to chase anyone, and no indication that any costs won’t be recovered from the driver / their immediate employer.

You only have to stand next to a CCTV crossing for a couple of trains, to see how many 'jump the lights' .....you even get it when there is a high profile mobile camera van parked a short distance away !

 

[robbeech]

You only have to stand next to a CCTV crossing for a couple of trains, to see how many 'jump the lights' .....you even get it when there is a high profile mobile camera van parked a short distance away !

And that makes 80 (eighty) percent of drivers fail to stop at red traffic lights ?

 

[al78]

Traffic cameras may not be forgiving, but if this was pursued in a court of law you would be acquitted, and therefore deemed not to have done anything illegal.

Useful to know, I thought it was very stringent, you jump a light and get caught, that's it. I did do this once when an emergency vehicle approached from behind (ambulance I think) and I couldn't put two wheels on the pavement because of railings, so it was either go through the red light with care, or delay the emergency vehicle. I didn't get charged. I'd rather risk a penalty than someones life.

 

[Taunton]

It's notable that where they think it's the road users' error, Network Rail do this hugely critical and to quite an extent patronising description of the situation, whereas when it's found by the RAIB enquiry to be an NR staff issue (as last month here at Beccles), it's just glossed over with "Network Rail said it had introduced measures to reduce the risk of signaller errors."

Signalling error caused near miss at Suffolk rail crossing

A report says the train was seconds from two vehicles that had been authorised to cross the tracks.

www.bbc.co.uk

And what's this "reduce the risk of" rather than "eliminate"?

 

[Tomnick]

It's notable that where they think it's the road users' error, Network Rail do this hugely critical and to quite an extent patronising description of the situation, whereas when it's found by the RAIB enquiry to be an NR staff issue (as last month here at Beccles), it's just glossed over with "Network Rail said it had introduced measures to reduce the risk of signaller errors."

Signalling error caused near miss at Suffolk rail crossing

A report says the train was seconds from two vehicles that had been authorised to cross the tracks.

www.bbc.co.uk

And what's this "reduce the risk of" rather than "eliminate"?

I imagine that the purpose of patronising and critical press releases is to try and get the general public to take note and not abuse crossings, often deliberately. Why would they ever do anything similar, especially in public, when it’s one of their own staff who’ve made a mistake? Obviously it’ll be handed internally, as any reasonable person would expect.

If you can think of a practical means of eliminating the risk of signaller error, then there’s a lot of people who’d very much like to hear from you...

 

[Taunton]

If you can think of a practical means of eliminating the risk of signaller error, then there’s a lot of people who’d very much like to hear from you...

A good starting point is to stop sticking ever more UWCs and associated procedures (which themselves have got more complex over time) onto existing, remotely-located signal staff, as if they have nothing else to do, just to save staff costs - as commented in this RAIB report yet again.

 

[Tomnick]

A good starting point is to stop sticking ever more UWCs and associated procedures (which themselves have got more complex over time) onto existing, remotely-located signal staff, as if they have nothing else to do, just to save staff costs - as commented in this RAIB report yet again.

Yes, but that only reduces the risk (which is what Network Rail said they're trying to do), it doesn't eliminate it...

 

[Taunton]

I'm getting a bit fed up with this continuing series of level crossing issues in NR's Anglia Route, which seem to be out of proportion with the rest of the system and a significant number within NR's own control. Possibly why it was them who did the press release on 28 July about the Manningtree crossing incident discussed here, just days after the 8 July Beccles incident, just when the issues would be known internally, and before any report on the latter was released. Ever since the Elsenham schoolchildren accident, which cost NR a huge amount in fines for incompetence, there seem to have been a whole series of crossing incidents in their area leading to formal RAIB reports.

Reading the RAIB report, the additional features recently introduced at Saxmundham, controlling the Beccles crossing, seem to have been both designed and implemented by a Klutz. Even the RAIB says they were useless ("This meant that although additional information on train position was provided on the display of the signaller’s workstation, this did not give them any new information about the location of the train") , and the signal team then never trained in what they did anyway ("The signaller involved in the incident on 8 June had not been trained in the use of the additional information provided on the display, or the associated table").

Time for new management there? And one which doesn't do press releases to try to divert attention from their own responsibilities.

 

[Bald Rick]

Time for new management there? And one which doesn't do press releases to try to divert attention from their own responsibilities.

There is new Managment there. Just about the best there is.

What I do know is that LX issues in Anglia are not new (things were a lot worse in terms of incidents, a long time before Elsenham), and knowing many of the people who manage (or did manage) level crossings in Anglia I can categorically state they are very competent. One of them is now CEO of the RSSB, and you don’t get there without a complete understanding of risk and safety matters.

 

[LAX54]

Why are you trying to link Manningtree and Beccles ? it is chalk and cheese ! one is a UWC and the other a CCTV, no comparison

 

[Taunton]

@B R : I am, as always, grateful for your professional input, but the number of crossing incidents which are attributed to Network Rail rather than road users are surely disproportionately in this area. A number (though not all) are documented in this most recent report, which as ever by the RAIB makes its points by a range of comments one needs to take together.

And can you read the comments in this report about how the new facilities for this crossing were both designed and implemented, and then say after the RAIB comments about same (which I quoted) that it is a sign of "very competent".

 

[Bald Rick]

I am, as always, grateful for your professional input, but the number of crossing incidents which are attributed to Network Rail rather than road users are surely disproportionately in this area.

Anglia has a disproportionately large number of crossings per route mile, despite the best efforts of many people to close them (More than 10% of them have been closed in the last decade).

I’ll read the report later.

 

[GB]

@B R : I am, as always, grateful for your professional input, but the number of crossing incidents which are attributed to Network Rail rather than road users are surely disproportionately in this area. A number (though not all) are documented in this most recent report, which as ever by the RAIB makes its points by a range of comments one needs to take together.

And can you read the comments in this report about how the new facilities for this crossing were both designed and implemented, and then say after the RAIB comments about same (which I quoted) that it is a sign of "very competent".

The amount of crossing misuse reported in the media is only a small amount....usually only the bigger incidents are noted. There is much more crossing misuse across the network than that .

 

[Meerkat]

Anglia has a disproportionately large number of crossings per route mile, despite the best efforts of many people to close them (More than 10% of them have been closed in the last decade).

I’ll read the report later.

Would Anglia’s farm crossings also be more frequently used as its arable with more machinery to get around than if you just mow pasture once or twice a year? Do cattle ever get herded across UWCs??

 

[Llanigraham]

Would Anglia’s farm crossings also be more frequently used as its arable with more machinery to get around than if you just mow pasture once or twice a year? Do cattle ever get herded across UWCs??

Our Box controlled 3 UWC's, and one in particular I had cows, calves, sheep and pigs herded across, and one of the others was on a Bridle Path and over that I had lama's as well as horses.

 

[Bald Rick]

Would Anglia’s farm crossings also be more frequently used as its arable with more machinery to get around than if you just mow pasture once or twice a year? Do cattle ever get herded across UWCs??

Yes, typically Anglia’s farm crossings are used more intensively. Albeit there are some unusual patterns - some crossings see no use for 362/365ths of the year, but for the day of planting, and the two days of harvesting, they can be the busiest crossings on the whole route. Clearly this is difficult to predict and manage with the farmers and their contractors.

Cattle can be and are taken across such crossings, but not often.

 

[LAX54]

we seem to be drifting away from CCTV crossings to User Worked and Minature light crossings !