There seem to be many of these 'lost railcard' threads about these days.
I closely observed this on the 18:50 ATW departure from Cardiff for Manchester tonight, and there was a passenger who boarded at Newport with Y-P tickets and no railcard. They were Advance Newport S. Wales to Huddersfield - and cheap too, less than £20. The guard checked them and asked the passenger for the railcard.
'Do you really need to see it?'
'Yes I do, you need to present it with those tickets.'
A few moments later, after checking the rest of the carriage, the guard returns and it becomes apparent that the passenger does not have the railcard.
The passenger begins to ramble about how it was presented when the tickets were purchased, but as they have clearly been bought online this doesn't last long. On questioning, passenger insists they own a Railcard and that the guard can check this because it's registered to them, but quite rightly 'Unfortunately we don't have the capability to do that on the train.' Passenger's ticket's pronounced 'null and void'. To allow travel to Manchester would be said to be 'fraud'.
The guard demands, to my horror as an onlooker, £109.60 (for the NOT VIA LONDON fare). Perhaps the guard was thrown by the fact that this is an OFF-PEAK SINGLE, whereas surely the appropriate fare is the ANYTIME DAY SINGLE Route VIA MANCHESTER for only £64.40? Clearly this sum is not forthcoming. Guard gives second option, 'Alight at Abergavenny' in order to purchase a new Railcard, and offers to endorse tickets for travel on the next train. This is at 19:30, the ticket office long since closed. Guard says Railcard will cost £28 (hmm) and the next train is an hour later. It's actually 20:56. Guard offers third option, UFN for a ticket to Manchester, then it's up to the passenger to get themself to Huddersfield however they can. This is ostensibly taken up, so the train departs from Abergavenny and guard returns with UFN pad asking for £60.20 to be paid within 10 days.
This goes down little better than the previous fare, but it is at least correct for an ANYTIME DAY SINGLE. Further cyclical exchanges continue with a shop analogy (much decried on here, I know) about checking change and an Airport analogy about forgetting one's passport employed by guard. Fed up, guard states that there are many other passengers on the train (myself included) with railcards who have used them correctly. Travel will not be allowed to Manchester - passenger has offered guard £28 for a new railcard but it this is obviously not possible - so passenger offers to buy new railcard from Piccadilly. Train will not proceed beyond next stop, Hereford (also closed ticket office at this time!), without one of guard's options being selected.
To my eyes, passenger is not exceptionally vulnerable, but I know there is only one following train of the night, and it arrives in Manchester at 23:48 -quite some time after the train we are on, which arrives at 22:13. I must also declare that I had significant interest in 1W35 being on time at Wilmslow for a connection!
I interrupted the guard and passenger now in conversation over the UFN pad across two seats, just one row in front of me.
"Excuse me, perhaps I might be able to offer some assistance? A passenger who requires a Newport South Wales to Manchester Stations single ticket may be able to reduce the cost by fifteen to twenty pounds by splitting at Cwmbran, Church Stretton and Wilmslow."
To my relief, guard does not take this badly, but asks a few supplementary questions of me (yikes!) and if I know the total (I don't know the exact cheapest split, I confess). I quickly confirm with the guard that the train actually calls at Church Stretton, panicking that it misses it out and my suggestion is duff, "Yes we do call there but it wouldn't matter anyway." (again, hmm). Passenger no doubt bemused but guard totals up fare - just under £45. Guard states passenger now has a fourth option costing £15 less, as provided by 'this gentleman'. Guard continues "Unfortunately, with a UFN -" "Yes," I interrupt "the passenger would have to purchase all of those tickets now - but at least they could remain onboard to Manchester."
I feel I have given the fellow passenger a way to remain on the train and not be ripped off - and more importantly not marooned somewhere as a result of a not quite au fait guard - in a way which satisfies the rules. After all, this is entirely the passenger's fault for failing to carry the railcard.
Would you have interrupted? Or said something sooner? I've never done anything like this before, ever. I was polite and clear and used exact terminology - as did the guard throughout the whole encounter, which is likely the only reason I was confident I could get away with saying something.
Fate of passenger unknown, refused to part with a penny so gets off in a strop at Hereford (ticket office very much closed) after guard brings (probably, clueless, my apologies if not but are they trained in tickets?) train dispatcher onboard and refuses to move train until an 'option' is chosen. More than fair treatment I think and very polite too, but perhaps a more lenient guard would have allowed a new railcard to be purchased in Manchester? The end result would have been the same after all but passenger far less delayed. Technically not within rules though of course. Slightly concerned about lack of key knowledge on part of guard though and not to say application of rules that could have 'tricked' passenger into becoming stranded for the night all to easily.
I made my connection at Wilmslow too thank you
(assuming you all asked! 
). Now I just feel sorry for the poor cows that got hit earlier :/
I closely observed this on the 18:50 ATW departure from Cardiff for Manchester tonight, and there was a passenger who boarded at Newport with Y-P tickets and no railcard. They were Advance Newport S. Wales to Huddersfield - and cheap too, less than £20. The guard checked them and asked the passenger for the railcard.
'Do you really need to see it?'
'Yes I do, you need to present it with those tickets.'
A few moments later, after checking the rest of the carriage, the guard returns and it becomes apparent that the passenger does not have the railcard.
The passenger begins to ramble about how it was presented when the tickets were purchased, but as they have clearly been bought online this doesn't last long. On questioning, passenger insists they own a Railcard and that the guard can check this because it's registered to them, but quite rightly 'Unfortunately we don't have the capability to do that on the train.' Passenger's ticket's pronounced 'null and void'. To allow travel to Manchester would be said to be 'fraud'.
The guard demands, to my horror as an onlooker, £109.60 (for the NOT VIA LONDON fare). Perhaps the guard was thrown by the fact that this is an OFF-PEAK SINGLE, whereas surely the appropriate fare is the ANYTIME DAY SINGLE Route VIA MANCHESTER for only £64.40? Clearly this sum is not forthcoming. Guard gives second option, 'Alight at Abergavenny' in order to purchase a new Railcard, and offers to endorse tickets for travel on the next train. This is at 19:30, the ticket office long since closed. Guard says Railcard will cost £28 (hmm) and the next train is an hour later. It's actually 20:56. Guard offers third option, UFN for a ticket to Manchester, then it's up to the passenger to get themself to Huddersfield however they can. This is ostensibly taken up, so the train departs from Abergavenny and guard returns with UFN pad asking for £60.20 to be paid within 10 days.
This goes down little better than the previous fare, but it is at least correct for an ANYTIME DAY SINGLE. Further cyclical exchanges continue with a shop analogy (much decried on here, I know) about checking change and an Airport analogy about forgetting one's passport employed by guard. Fed up, guard states that there are many other passengers on the train (myself included) with railcards who have used them correctly. Travel will not be allowed to Manchester - passenger has offered guard £28 for a new railcard but it this is obviously not possible - so passenger offers to buy new railcard from Piccadilly. Train will not proceed beyond next stop, Hereford (also closed ticket office at this time!), without one of guard's options being selected.
To my eyes, passenger is not exceptionally vulnerable, but I know there is only one following train of the night, and it arrives in Manchester at 23:48 -quite some time after the train we are on, which arrives at 22:13. I must also declare that I had significant interest in 1W35 being on time at Wilmslow for a connection!
I interrupted the guard and passenger now in conversation over the UFN pad across two seats, just one row in front of me.
"Excuse me, perhaps I might be able to offer some assistance? A passenger who requires a Newport South Wales to Manchester Stations single ticket may be able to reduce the cost by fifteen to twenty pounds by splitting at Cwmbran, Church Stretton and Wilmslow."
To my relief, guard does not take this badly, but asks a few supplementary questions of me (yikes!) and if I know the total (I don't know the exact cheapest split, I confess). I quickly confirm with the guard that the train actually calls at Church Stretton, panicking that it misses it out and my suggestion is duff, "Yes we do call there but it wouldn't matter anyway." (again, hmm). Passenger no doubt bemused but guard totals up fare - just under £45. Guard states passenger now has a fourth option costing £15 less, as provided by 'this gentleman'. Guard continues "Unfortunately, with a UFN -" "Yes," I interrupt "the passenger would have to purchase all of those tickets now - but at least they could remain onboard to Manchester."
I feel I have given the fellow passenger a way to remain on the train and not be ripped off - and more importantly not marooned somewhere as a result of a not quite au fait guard - in a way which satisfies the rules. After all, this is entirely the passenger's fault for failing to carry the railcard.
Would you have interrupted? Or said something sooner? I've never done anything like this before, ever. I was polite and clear and used exact terminology - as did the guard throughout the whole encounter, which is likely the only reason I was confident I could get away with saying something.
Fate of passenger unknown, refused to part with a penny so gets off in a strop at Hereford (ticket office very much closed) after guard brings (probably, clueless, my apologies if not but are they trained in tickets?) train dispatcher onboard and refuses to move train until an 'option' is chosen. More than fair treatment I think and very polite too, but perhaps a more lenient guard would have allowed a new railcard to be purchased in Manchester? The end result would have been the same after all but passenger far less delayed. Technically not within rules though of course. Slightly concerned about lack of key knowledge on part of guard though and not to say application of rules that could have 'tricked' passenger into becoming stranded for the night all to easily.
I made my connection at Wilmslow too thank you
(assuming you all asked! ). Now I just feel sorry for the poor cows that got hit earlier :/
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