Another rail operator in Germany using clapped out old rolling stock

[gordonthemoron]

BahnTouristikExpress' coaches look terrible

https://www.thelocal.de/20180306/fl...bahn-with-low-cost-trains-from-berlin-hamburg

 

[JonathanP]

These don't really represent new services, in my opinion. It's just the previous Locomore and Hamburg-Köln-Express operations, rescued by FlixBus and operating under their brand.

 

[Bletchleyite]

These don't really represent new services, in my opinion. It's just the previous Locomore and Hamburg-Köln-Express operations, rescued by FlixBus and operating under their brand.

Will be interesting to see what they make of them.

One thing I find interesting is that these open-access operations in Germany are typically outside the DB ticketing system, while in the UK they always join ORCATS. I wonder what difference that makes to viability.

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

while in the UK they always join ORCATS. I wonder what difference that makes to viability.

Quite a bit! In the UK, ORR effectively requires that open access operators are part of the overall ticketing system although they would all join voluntarily if that was an option. This effectively gives them some base income (at least until a competitor successfully challenges the allocations), reducing business risk considerably. In Germany, you get only the revenue that you sell. End of!

 

[JonathanP]

HKX actually did have a contract with DB Regio for mutual acceptance of tickets for a while, but they withdrew from it, I believe because they found their services were becoming overcrowded by DB customers.

It doesn't really make sense to talk about the "DB ticketing system". DB Regio and DB Fernvekehr(long distance) have completely different fare structures, and in almost all regional trains tickets from the local tariff associations will be valid, so for any given DB Regio train you might have bought your ticket from any one of 3 different people, according to 3 different fare structures, 2 of which can be changed at any time by Deutsche Bahn according to their commercial decisions.

The area where the "being part of DB" concept makes more sense is that the Deutsch Bahn journey planner is the de-facto national rail journey planner/ticket vendor for rail services in Germany, but will not sell tickets for these services, only display the timetable. However, FlixBus now has a near monopoly on long distance bus services, so a vast number of people are going every day to the FlixBus website, where they will be presented with these services alongside all the bus results.

 

[Bletchleyite]

HKX actually did have a contract with DB Regio for mutual acceptance of tickets for a while, but they withdrew from it, I believe because they found their services were becoming overcrowded by DB customers.

The Wochenendticket, Quer-Durchs-Land-Ticket and Laender-Tickets were probably the main issue as they are on many DB Regio services.

 

[pemma]

Looks like the uniforms are also low cost or the bottom halves haven't been provided yet: https://i2.wp.com/farm5.static.flickr.com/4402/36729052496_09e12bc3e3_b.jpg

 

[duesselmartin]

With only sporadic services by Flixtrain ob the former hkx route, I cannot see commercial success.

 

[U-Bahnfreund]

I used the Locomore once, when it was still independent, and I found it really nice. The coaches are not worse than what DB uses on many IC services. Also, Flixtrain will not stay with these two routes, but I think they will increase the frequency and also run on more routes, Locomore already planned introducing Berlin–Ruhr and Berlin–Rügen services.

 

[Bletchleyite]

With only sporadic services by Flixtrain ob the former hkx route, I cannot see commercial success.

Quite, a couple of trains per day doesn't pay for the huge back office cost. It's notable that no UK open access operator has gone for such a limited operation.

 

[D1009]

BahnTouristikExpress' coaches look terrible

https://www.thelocal.de/20180306/fl...bahn-with-low-cost-trains-from-berlin-hamburg

Yes, we can't possibly have windows you can lean out of in this day and age, can we?

 

[gordonthemoron]

Yes, we can't possibly have windows you can lean out of in this day and age, can we?

I suspect they're former eastern european stock, like Alex

 

[Bletchleyite]

I suspect they're former eastern european stock, like Alex

Or ex-DB. Full-drop leanable windows were standard UIC spec for years.

They look like Western coaches to me, probably adapted Bm235s (200km/h compartment coaches formerly on DB IC services). Typically, Western coaches have the roofline curve down to the gangway (as the Locomore ones do) and Eastern ones are square right up to the vehicle end. The doorhandles were also a different shape, but these have probably been swapped around too many times for this to be a reliable guide.

 

[AlexNL]

Quite, a couple of trains per day doesn't pay for the huge back office cost. It's notable that no UK open access operator has gone for such a limited operation.

I don't think such a limited operation would be permitted under UK regulations, as it would fail the NPA test?

Or ex-DB. Full-drop leanable windows were standard UIC spec for years.

They look like Western coaches to me, probably adapted Bm235s (200km/h compartment coaches formerly on DB IC services).

Locomore/Flixtrain indeed use Bm235's, which were once used by Nederlandse Spoorwegen (source).

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't think such a limited operation would be permitted under UK regulations, as it would fail the NPA test?

I think it would. The NPA test (Not Primarily Abstractive) has more to do with where you serve and how you price than the frequency.

For example, a service from Wick to London Euston calling at all stations up to Inverness, missing Inverness itself, then non-stop to Euston, would not, even if only running once per day, be primarily abstractive. The timetable clearly describes a service which is intended to carry people from stations that don't presently have a London service to/from London.

A class 153 with full RVAR modifications would be more than adequate for the demand

Locomore/Flixtrain indeed use Bm235's, which were once used by Nederlandse Spoorwegen (source).

With the window blocks removed, I see In their NS guise you couldn't open the windows enough to get your head out. I remember being quite disappointed at this.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Locomore/Flixtrain indeed use Bm235's, which were once used by Nederlandse Spoorwegen (source).

Superb website, thanks for the link. Anyone with any interest in Dutch Railways would do well to have a good look/bookmark.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Review (in German) of Flixtrain, including a video of the first journey, over at Zugreiseblog:
https://www.zugreiseblog.de/flixtrain-hamburg-koeln/

 

[gordonthemoron]

well, the coaches look dreadful

 

[Bletchleyite]

well, the coaches look dreadful

No worse than a Class 350/2, and it's essentially in the same kind of market.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Watching the video, some of the seat upholstery looked a bit tired, and one of the coaches seemed to be a couchette arranged for daytime use.

 

[gordonthemoron]

350/2's a fine on metro services. This is a long distance service

 

[Bletchleyite]

350/2's a fine on metro services. This is a long distance service

LNR's services serve two purposes - outersuburban commuter but also budget long-distance. It's the latter market where both are very similar, particularly the Crewe services, which do occasionally see /2s.

 

[alex397]

I saw the Flixtrain at Düsseldorf Hbf tonight heading to Cologne/Koln, at about 20.40 (does this start at Hamburg?) . Looked very busy! And seemingly mostly youthful passengers. Almost looked like a youth hostel on wheels.

The garish livery rather stands out. I quite like the old rolling stock though, but maybe most of the passengers wouldn't agree with me!

 

[Dougal2345]

well, the coaches look dreadful

It looks like a palace compared to anything we have in the UK... Massive seats, no underfloor engines hammering away, space for bikes and luggage. The Germans have that and we have the Class 158...

 

[duesselmartin]

It looks like a palace compared to anything we have in the UK... Massive seats, no underfloor engines hammering away, space for bikes and luggage. The Germans have that and we have the Class 158...

But you have perfectly good MK III. Germany has plenty of new pladtic MUs such as Lint, Talent, Flirt, Kiss and whatever silly name they could find.

 

[D1009]

But you have perfectly good MK III. Germany has plenty of new pladtic MUs such as Lint, Talent, Flirt, Kiss and whatever silly name they could find.

Yes, and we're getting rid of the Mk 3s, apart from a comparitive few which are having a stay of execution due to initial replacement plans going awry.