Another Unsuccessful Application!

[Instructor_Guy]

Hi folks,

As per the title, I have another unsuccessful application under my belt this is my sixth now, four with SWR.

I completed an online assessment with SWR for a Commercial Guard's job at Salisbury, I've done the same online assessment twice before and each time not progressed to the next stage.

I'm going to drop SWR an email to hopefully get some feedback this time and hope they oblige. Getting to the point now where I feel like what's the point in applying

Rant over!

 

[Stigy]

Hi folks,

As per the title, I have another unsuccessful application under my belt this is my sixth now, four with SWR.

I completed an online assessment with SWR for a Commercial Guard's job at Salisbury, I've done the same online assessment twice before and each time not progressed to the next stage.

I'm going to drop SWR an email to hopefully get some feedback this time and hope they oblige. Getting to the point now where I feel like what's the point in applying

Rant over!

Hi mate, sorry to hear this.

If it’s any consolation I’m not convinced some of the online assessments SWR use are really fit for purpose. I have experience on both sides of the fence both from an applicant perspective and a recruitment perspective (I’ve never worked in recruitment, but have been responsible for some of the recruitment processes in my current role). You’ll really have to push SWR for feedback as they don’t offer it at this stage ordinarily, but since you’ve had a few attempts, they might do it this time I suppose? The thing is, all these tests are scored automatically therefore an actual human being never sets eyes on them. I’m not sure what they will be able to tell you? If there’s one piece of advice I will offer, it’s definitely don’t give up!

I think you’ll find that these assessments are generally scored on averages, therefore if all bar one or two score ‘A’ and you score a C, you won’t get through, but if all score B and C, and you’re a C, you’ll pass, if that makes sense? Not everybody scores well at aptitude tests, but in my opinion it often doesn’t make them any less suitable for the job. It’s the luck of the draw, and doesn’t mean you failed miserably. I can do SJTs and verbal reasoning tests to an extent, but throw in a numerical reasoning test and I’m guessing my way through it all!

Good luck going forward, keep us updated!

 

[GJL9916]

I wouldn't worry about it and keep going! I have just had the second email rejection for the same job!! You know it's bad when they have to tell you twice!

 

[Journeyman]

I suspect that SWR at least use sensible recruitment policies, unlike the "wacky, crazy, look how much fun we're having!!!!!111!!!1!" nonsense you get subjected to with Virgin.

When an escape room is seen as a legitimate part of the interview process, there's something seriously wrong. I pulled out of an application I had with them because of that - what is this, a stag night?!?

 

[Stigy]

I suspect that SWR at least use sensible recruitment policies, unlike the "wacky, crazy, look how much fun we're having!!!!!111!!!1!" nonsense you get subjected to with Virgin.

When an escape room is seen as a legitimate part of the interview process, there's something seriously wrong. I pulled out of an application I had with them because of that - what is this, a stag night?!?

I’m intrigued to know what you were subjected to

 

[Journeyman]

I’m intrigued to know what you were subjected to

Apply for a job with Virgin and see for yourself. Honestly, it's a joke. If you're not literally up to off-your-face levels of wackiness and jolliness all the time, they won't touch you. Their recruitment process is an absolute nightmare for anyone who wants to take a quiet and serious approach to their job.

 

[GLENMAYE77]

I wouldn't worry about it and keep going! I have just had the second email rejection for the same job!! You know it's bad when they have to tell you twice!

What was that for?

 

[GJL9916]

What was that for?

The Liverpool train driver job with Northern, they emailed me last week to say thanks but not thanks, and just had another email from them saying the same thing! Thought they might have changed their mind for a moment but no such luck!!

 

[J-P_L]

Sorry to hear, my advice is keep going and it will come eventually!

Took me 2 and a half years and loads of applications to finally get a conductor job. My advice (from my experience) is keep going, grow your networks and always get feedback to find out where you can improve.

 

[feaky4]

I'm waiting for my 4th driver rejection just had a rejection for a conductor thinking of throwing in the towel

 

[GLENMAYE77]

The Liverpool train driver job with Northern, they emailed me last week to say thanks but not thanks, and just had another email from them saying the same thing! Thought they might have changed their mind for a moment but no such luck!!

I got the same one!
Thought it was because I emailed them asking for some advice (for which I got a generic response anyway) but they’ve double bagged my rejection too!
Haha

 

[GJL9916]

I got the same one!
Thought it was because I emailed them asking for some advice (for which I got a generic response anyway) but they’ve double bagged my rejection too!
Haha

Ah well we can safely say we won't be getting that job this time round!

 

[baz962]

Ah well we can safely say we won't be getting that job this time round!

People , don't give up. It took me 8-9 year's and eleven application's. Even after I passed the psychometric's , and according to opc my results are in top 2% , I didn't pass the dmi. I passed my second dmi and was offered two others which I since declined. I'm now a qualified driver , no previous railway experience and about to turn 49. Around six or seven of my applications were after gaining my psychometric scores. These job's on the railway are heavily subscribed , so many applicant's , very popular. Even if you are good enough , it's still a numbers game. Don't give up hope , I believe my tenacity was part of my success.

 

[GJL9916]

People , don't give up. It took me 8-9 year's and eleven application's. Even after I passed the psychometric's , and according to opc my results are in top 2% , I didn't pass the dmi. I passed my second dmi and was offered two others which I since declined. I'm now a qualified driver , no previous railway experience and about to turn 49. Around six or seven of my applications were after gaining my psychometric scores. These job's on the railway are heavily subscribed , so many applicant's , very popular. Even if you are good enough , it's still a numbers game. Don't give up hope , I believe my tenacity was part of my success.

Cheers Baz, that's encouraging! I will keep on going, that's one thing i'm good at!

 

[Greaseball3220]

Apply for a job with Virgin and see for yourself. Honestly, it's a joke. If you're not literally up to off-your-face levels of wackiness and jolliness all the time, they won't touch you. Their recruitment process is an absolute nightmare for anyone who wants to take a quiet and serious approach to their job.

The sort of people they look for in customer facing roles do exist in a sense. Dizzy, garrulous extroverts usually female or gay blokes with all the attendant gelled up hair and trimmed beards are shoe in's for what VT want on their platforms, trains or ticket offices, the sort of people who act out their lives as if they're in a lead role in a film or a video blog, usually fished from the hotel and hospitality industry.

As for Driving I think nowadays it's ex-armed forces/emergency services and token selection from BAME and LGBT communities in order to meet diversity quota's, in your interview you're expected to tell them how you were head boy at grammar school followed by how you single-handedly dealt with a mass casualty terrorist attack or the like, it's almost like people who state they want to be Driver's because it's what they've always wanted to do or display some level of knowledge of the industry are binned off, this as well as the former is emblematic of the neoliberal style-over-substance and atomised workforce individualism that these TOC's want.

 

[Topcat999]

I know they will (can) never admit it....but do you think some times some personal prejudices come into play? I guess that is human nature.

 

[Topcat999]

The sort of people they look for in customer facing roles do exist in a sense. Dizzy, garrulous extroverts usually female or gay blokes with all the attendant gelled up hair and trimmed beards are shoe in's for what VT want on their platforms, trains or ticket offices, the sort of people who act out their lives as if they're in a lead role in a film or a video blog, usually fished from the hotel and hospitality industry.

As for Driving I think nowadays it's ex-armed forces/emergency services and token selection from BAME and LGBT communities in order to meet diversity quota's, in your interview you're expected to tell them how you were head boy at grammar school followed by how you single-handedly dealt with a mass casualty terrorist attack or the like, it's almost like people who state they want to be Driver's because it's what they've always wanted to do or display some level of knowledge of the industry are binned off, this as well as the former is emblematic of the neoliberal style-over-substance and atomised workforce individualism that these TOC's want.

It's a sad state of affairs fort he world. P.C. is really turning to be a pain in the ****

 

[Stigy]

I know they will (can) never admit it....but do you think some times some personal prejudices come into play? I guess that is human nature.

I’ve put my head above the parapet before here in another thread. I think, in all industries there’s a certain amount of tick box exercises. I think for example with all of the hype about ‘women in rail’ and BTP stating quite clearly in their last campaign that you shouldnt expect a place at their recruitment event unless you ticket the relevant ethnicity or gender criteria, certain genders and profiles have been at a natural disadvantage in recent years.

Playing devil’s advocate here, but what if for arguments sake a company in Tooting....or any other diverse area of the country (who have a very large black workforce) said “we are currently only accepting applicants from white males”. Racist/sexist?

 

[feaky4]

People , don't give up. It took me 8-9 year's and eleven application's. Even after I passed the psychometric's , and according to opc my results are in top 2% , I didn't pass the dmi. I passed my second dmi and was offered two others which I since declined. I'm now a qualified driver , no previous railway experience and about to turn 49. Around six or seven of my applications were after gaining my psychometric scores. These job's on the railway are heavily subscribed , so many applicant's , very popular. Even if you are good enough , it's still a numbers game. Don't give up hope , I believe my tenacity was part of my success.

Did you modify your application much on every attempt?? I believe my application is as good as it can get and fills in every thing they need I dont know if I need to keep changing or just keep trying with exactly the same thing

 

[GJL9916]

This is local to me and to be honest the article has made me think since about ticking the 'prefer not to say' box on the equal opportunities section

https://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/news/local-news/cheshire-police-straight-white-tribunal-2578808

 

[Stigy]

This is local to me and to be honest the article has made me think since about ticking the 'prefer not to say' box on the equal opportunities section

https://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/news/local-news/cheshire-police-straight-white-tribunal-2578808

Happens all the time. Positive discrimination. Always tick the prefer not to say box.

 

[baz962]

Did you modify your application much on every attempt?? I believe my application is as good as it can get and fills in every thing they need I dont know if I need to keep changing or just keep trying with exactly the same thing

I modified it after some , but not others.

 

[Railweigh]

Did you modify your application much on every attempt?? I believe my application is as good as it can get and fills in every thing they need I dont know if I need to keep changing or just keep trying with exactly the same thing

The only advice I can offer (because it worked first time for me), is use the words and skills they’re emphasising in the job description and give good solid examples of why you’d fit the role. I didn’t even attach a CV as I didn’t have one, I’d done the same job nearly all my life.

I believe there’s definitely an element of luck into getting past a sift, but also there are (at least at my TOC) no barriers to anyone joining. I have no formal qualifications other than school, never done a safety critical role, never had anything to do with the railway before. Yet I’m 3 months into a drivers course and my colleagues are from multiple backgrounds.

 

[feaky4]

The only advice I can offer (because it worked first time for me), is use the words and skills they’re emphasising in the job description and give good solid examples of why you’d fit the role. I didn’t even attach a CV as I didn’t have one, I’d done the same job nearly all my life.

I believe there’s definitely an element of luck into getting past a sift, but also there are (at least at my TOC) no barriers to anyone joining. I have no formal qualifications other than school, never done a safety critical role, never had anything to do with the railway before. Yet I’m 3 months into a drivers course and my colleagues are from multiple backgrounds.

I work in a pharmacy so I put down about concentration all the rules and regulations quick thinking with my knowledge to sort some thing out ect ect I read the job app and put in my own ways how I fill the requirement so I dunno if I should keep it the same and hope or if that'll get me no where I really think if I pass a sift I'd get it I'm very confident with the rest just getting to that point.

 

[MrPIC]

The sort of people they look for in customer facing roles do exist in a sense. Dizzy, garrulous extroverts usually female or gay blokes with all the attendant gelled up hair and trimmed beards are shoe in's for what VT want on their platforms, trains or ticket offices, the sort of people who act out their lives as if they're in a lead role in a film or a video blog, usually fished from the hotel and hospitality industry.

As for Driving I think nowadays it's ex-armed forces/emergency services and token selection from BAME and LGBT communities in order to meet diversity quota's, in your interview you're expected to tell them how you were head boy at grammar school followed by how you single-handedly dealt with a mass casualty terrorist attack or the like, it's almost like people who state they want to be Driver's because it's what they've always wanted to do or display some level of knowledge of the industry are binned off, this as well as the former is emblematic of the neoliberal style-over-substance and atomised workforce individualism that these TOC's want.

wow...

 

[bionic]

Jesus Christ. How many bitter and ignorant posts are there above?

The vast bulk of jobs in the railway are held by straight white men. That's a fact. Women, BEM, LGBT staff are massively under-represented in the industry. If you didn't get a job it's probably because you weren't good enough. Deal with it.

If you think women, BEM and LGBT people have it easy I suggest you take your head out the sand and start reading history.

 

[Stigy]

Jesus Christ. How many bitter and ignorant posts are there above?

The vast bulk of jobs in the railway are held by straight white men. That's a fact. Women, BEM, LGBT staff are massively under-represented in the industry. If you didn't get a job it's probably because you weren't good enough. Deal with it.

If you think women, BEM and LGBT people have it easy I suggest you take your head out the sand and start reading history.

Therein lies the problem. History. People are too quick to bring up the past without looking to the future.

I’m not saying that there’s any particular group that are better represented than the next, however what I am saying, is that it’s wrong to favour anybody based on any of the above. People should be recruited on merit, not because their face fits. If 85% if police officers are white, it’s not ideal, but one of those things. It doesn’t mean the police service is racist. Certain ethnicities or gender etc either don’t want to apply, or they’re not meeting the criteria.

Same with any other organisation. For an agency or organisation to only welcome candidates from certain backgrounds or sexes, is discriminatory, yet legal. But only if it suits.

 

[Economist]

Don't give up, I failed four DMIs before passing my fifth, I'm now a qualified driver on mainline NR infrastructure.

I did hear of a driver who unsuccessfully went for a qualified role at a TOC known to use quotas, he happened to be a straight white male. On the third or fourth attempt, he ticked the "transgender" box and got a positive response straight away. Upon being told of how the railway "needed more people like [him]" he replied that he must of ticked the wrong box by mistake, he never heard anything further from the TOC in question, which I should add I do not work for.

Don't be under the impression that all DMs and recruiters are in favour of quotas and various PC recruitment policies, there are some who are not.

 

[whhistle]

I know they will (can) never admit it....but do you think some times some personal prejudices come into play? I guess that is human nature.

This. Completely.
I'd rather be told I didn't get the job because they didn't like my aftershave or the colour of my shirt than some other half hearted excuse.

 

[whhistle]

Jesus Christ. How many bitter and ignorant posts are there above?

The vast bulk of jobs in the railway are held by straight white men. That's a fact. Women, BEM, LGBT staff are massively under-represented in the industry. If you didn't get a job it's probably because you weren't good enough. Deal with it.

But that's because the vast majority of the workforce are white men in this country, surely?
So of course workforces are going to be made up of mainly white men.
And people don't want to bother filling in any census info, so we don't actually know the split between white/brown/black men/women is in this country.

Not all Indian (for example) men or women want to drive trains.
I don't see why companies are so stuck on this. Any woman should feel free to apply for any job. Just like any man should. Yet you don't see many men infant school teachers. Perhaps that's because most men don't want to do that job, but a lot of women do? That's okay ya know!

Yet companies seem to think positive discrimination gives them extra gold stars.
I'd want the right person for the job, not a specific person to tick a box.

It's not bitterness. It's about something that is supposed to stamp out unfairness being unfair.
Let me guess, you're in a role that you're happy with? And it wasn't too hard to get?
And you can't imagine what it would be like if they told you that you were being made redundant to make way for more women? Bet ya chuckled at that.
Reminds me of someone else here who wrote some horrible things because they were all happy in their driving role, yet said similar things to what you did. Easy to say when you don't have any vested interest.