Another year, another fare rise

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by NSEFAN, 13 Aug 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. NSEFAN

    NSEFAN Established Member

    Messages:
    3,303
    Joined:
    17 Jun 2007
    Location:
    Southampton
    It's that time of year again. Well, not just yet:

    BBC: Commuters will find out later how much rail fares are to go up next year when inflation figures are released.

    The article has all the usual ingredients: a union representative calling for renationalisation, a passenger's opinion and the DfT putting in a word.

    It would have been nice to see a cost breakdown to show us where all the money is actually going. I believe around 5% is TOC profit, whilst NR costs are around 45%?

    Note I couldn't find a similar thread in existence for this year's fare rises. Apologies if I've duplicated the topic!
     
  2. Registered users do not see these banners - join or log in today!

    Rail Forums

     
  3. beano900

    beano900 Member

    Messages:
    47
    Joined:
    30 Jul 2013
    I can't wait to pay more for traveling in style on a manky 1980s bus train, far too close to my fellow passenger.

    Perhaps First TPE will find another set of 185 so my evening train is full length for most of the week? They wouldn't have to keep inventing lame excuses for not having enough trains then!

    Apologies for the sarcasm overload, trains haven't been kind the last couple of days!

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4
     
  4. Squaddie

    Squaddie Established Member

    Messages:
    1,073
    Joined:
    6 Dec 2009
    Location:
    London
    This morning's Today programme on Radio 4 featured a commuter who is paying £5,600 for an annual season ticket from Bedford to London. For that she gets the right to travel at any time between those two stations on FCC's shabby, overcrowded trains.

    In Germany, for almost exactly the same amount, you could buy a first class Bahncard 100, giving unlimited first class travel across the entire country for a year.

    Why are the UK's trains so expensive?
     
  5. YorkshireBear

    YorkshireBear Established Member

    Messages:
    7,655
    Joined:
    23 Jul 2010
    First point, valid.

    Second point... hmm... They can't just magic a train, they are overstretched by the stupid (although... I think that route was destined to be crap for a while with the WCRM) decision to give them the Manchester to Scotland route. There are many lame excuses the real reason should be. DfT screwed us over.

    Also do the TOCs actually control this fare rise or is it all government?
     
  6. NSEFAN

    NSEFAN Established Member

    Messages:
    3,303
    Joined:
    17 Jun 2007
    Location:
    Southampton
    Less governmental subsidy in this country, and higher operating costs due to industry fragmentation. I suspect these are two of the big reasons. It would be nice to see a detailed financial analysis of both systems to see if this is actually the case!
     
  7. BestWestern

    BestWestern Established Member

    Messages:
    6,736
    Joined:
    6 Feb 2011
    The TOCs sort of have control. I'm not an expert on all of this, I find the politics of railways very tedious, but I understand that there is a 'fares basket' - which always brings to mind a 90's pub with people eating scampi in a basket :D - which has to average out over all of the increases (or sometimes decreases) which are imposed. That explains why sometimes certain flows stay the same, or go down a little, or go up by far less than others; it is so that bigger rises can be put in place elsewhere while maintaining the 'basket' average.
     
    Last edited: 13 Aug 2013
  8. beano900

    beano900 Member

    Messages:
    47
    Joined:
    30 Jul 2013
    Fair enough, I realise they can't magic trains from the sky. They could just be honest though. They are a set short and share it out around the various routes.

    I don't actually blame first or even northern for their terrible gear, it's the government and more specifically, the government of the 1980s for creating the inefficient system in the first place.

    As a result we end up paying more for the same average service, despite quite a sizeable increase in passenger revenue.
     
  9. ert47

    ert47 Member

    Messages:
    666
    Joined:
    28 Feb 2010
    Let me guess, high cost of travel is due to immigrants? :/
     
  10. HST Power

    HST Power Established Member

    Messages:
    3,704
    Joined:
    25 Nov 2010
    May I suggest we all kick back, calm down and enjoy this video. It might bring some light to the situation! :D

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaKB_y_UfdU

    [youtube]WaKB_y_UfdU[/youtube]

     
  11. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

    Messages:
    21,249
    Joined:
    6 Aug 2009
    Location:
    Yorks
    I think the point about the Bahn Card is a valid one, particularly in the light of ATOC‘s continued failure to come up with a national railcard !
     
  12. philjo

    philjo Established Member

    Messages:
    2,512
    Joined:
    9 Jun 2009
    BBC reporting now that RPI has fallen slightly to 3.1% so the fare rises should not be as high as originally predicted (when an RPI increase to 3.3% was forecast)
    so fares will rise by 4.1% on average

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23678274

     
    Last edited: 13 Aug 2013
  13. Bungle73

    Bungle73 On Moderation

    Messages:
    2,570
    Joined:
    19 Aug 2011
    Location:
    Kent
    Um, there's a breakdown in the article you just posted......:

     
    Last edited: 13 Aug 2013
  14. NSEFAN

    NSEFAN Established Member

    Messages:
    3,303
    Joined:
    17 Jun 2007
    Location:
    Southampton
    It has been added retrospectively; it wasn't there when I first linked the article. Thanks for making me aware of it! Presumably the TOC running costs include franchise payments to the treasury?

    It would be nice to see how this compares with the railways in other European countries, such as DB.
     
  15. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    44,604
    Joined:
    6 Jun 2005
    Location:
    Yorkshire
    I'd suggest that's a new topic. I could think of many, many reasons...
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    For the small number that do that? I can't think where else it could be accounted for, so I'd guess so.
     
  16. GodAtum

    GodAtum On Moderation

    Messages:
    2,332
    Joined:
    11 Dec 2009
    I heard on the news this morning about protestors at London stations (eg Victoria) demonstrating about increased fares. Anyone taking part?
     
  17. syorksdeano

    syorksdeano Member

    Messages:
    515
    Joined:
    7 Jan 2011
    Is it just me that finds it funny but most of those protesting about train fares have travelled to the protests by train.

    Still the fares are expensive as it is and something needs to be done
     
  18. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

    Messages:
    21,158
    Joined:
    7 Apr 2010
    You could list loads of other matters, which affect nearly everyone, that are related to RPI, such as pensions. Why do the media concentrate on the effect of RPI on train fares every year?

    Has Maria Eagle complained yet, about the RPI+1% procedure, brought in by her previous government?
     
  19. WatcherZero

    WatcherZero Established Member

    Messages:
    9,218
    Joined:
    25 Feb 2010
    You mean the Conservative RPI +3%? They backed down every year theyve had to actually implement it including this year too, only raised it by RPI +1% the old Labour policy.
     
    Last edited: 13 Aug 2013
  20. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

    Messages:
    21,158
    Joined:
    7 Apr 2010
    So like I say, Eagle has got nothing to complain about, Labour policy is being maintained.
     
  21. CallySleeper

    CallySleeper Established Member

    Messages:
    1,662
    Joined:
    27 Jun 2006
    Location:
    trentbartonland
    Am I the only one who can't watch this without thinking of Blood Sugar?
     
  22. Bungle73

    Bungle73 On Moderation

    Messages:
    2,570
    Joined:
    19 Aug 2011
    Location:
    Kent
    How is it "funny" that people who use trains are the ones protesting about train fares? :?
     
  23. Dave1987

    Dave1987 Established Member

    Messages:
    4,369
    Joined:
    20 Oct 2012
    Quote of the day on the BBCs have your say.

    Apparently all train drivers earn £65k-£75k a year!!

    How naive are some of the British public eh.......
     
  24. HST Power

    HST Power Established Member

    Messages:
    3,704
    Joined:
    25 Nov 2010
    I think he means that it is somewhat ironic. Mainly, "oh isn't it terrible that the fares are going up, but we'll still use them to travel to our protest!"
     
  25. tbtc

    tbtc Veteran Member

    Messages:
    15,591
    Joined:
    16 Dec 2008
    Location:
    Sheffield
    http://www.theguardian.com/money/2013/aug/13/rail-fares-rise-january

    Okay, I expect a Trade Union leader to come out with the same old retoric, but its frustrating when people get the impression that there aren't improvements to the railways - we've had a period of stagnation but there are some huge improvements over the next few years - thousands of new carriages on order, lots of electrification, lines re-opening, bottlenecks being sorted out etc - it'd be nice if for once people got the message that there is "jam tomorrow".
     
  26. CNash

    CNash Member

    Messages:
    335
    Joined:
    30 Dec 2010
    The high cost of rail fares is already pricing me out of the job market for anywhere outside London (because fares shoot up as soon as you leave Zone 6); I'm just happy that I'm not currently in a position of paying thousands for a season ticket (only hundreds!).
     
  27. Mintona

    Mintona Established Member

    Messages:
    3,182
    Joined:
    8 Jan 2006
    Location:
    South West
    Where do I sign up?!
     
  28. RichmondCommu

    RichmondCommu Established Member

    Messages:
    6,767
    Joined:
    23 Feb 2010
    Location:
    Richmond, London
    That’s because living in London we have no choice but to take the train. Not that I can be bothered to protest, what's the point when the Government just does what it wants.
     
  29. aformeruser

    aformeruser Veteran Member

    Messages:
    30,637
    Joined:
    23 Jan 2009
    Do you get the service on North TPE that's booked for 6 car Mon-Thurs but 3 cars on Friday?

    If so the reason is Mon-Thurs there is a 16:00 Manchester Airport-Edinburgh and Windermere portion working (6 carriages in total.) On Fridays there is a 16:00 Manchester Airport-Edinburgh (6 carriages throughout) and a 17:04 Preston-Windermere (3 carriages.)

    Given that 350s will start running the Scottish services and that North TPE will get 5tph in May 2014 you may well see benefits from increased capacity within the next year.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    You'll probably recall that prior to the MML electrification announcement in quite a few posts you bemoaned the fact that all the North of England improvements were elsewhere and that there weren't any real plans for Sheffield.

    Many places still aren't set to get any real improvements except for possibly a little extra capacity from cascaded 1980s DMUs released by electrification projects.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    London commuters have the same choice as non-London commuters but the rail option is much more attractive (due to the frequent service and more rail connections) and the car option is much less attractive (more congestion and congestion charges.)
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Eagle's response is not to change the formula but to introduce an additional rule alongside it:

    http://news.sky.com/story/1127843/rail-fares-to-rise-by-4-1-percent-in-january-2014
     
    Last edited: 13 Aug 2013
  30. Realfish

    Realfish Member

    Messages:
    214
    Joined:
    15 Aug 2012


    Eagle, the Unions and the BBC were focussing on possible 9% increases at lunchtime.

    Did unregulated rises of that magnitude occur this year?
     
  31. aformeruser

    aformeruser Veteran Member

    Messages:
    30,637
    Joined:
    23 Jan 2009
    I've just found an article on it relating to the January 2012 fare increases, which focused on 12-13% fare increases but they were fares for journeys which involve both National Rail and Metrolink. At the bottom of the article is a quote from Maria Eagle referring to a 'fares fiddle' so it sounds like she has just repeated the same statement for 3 years running: http://www.knutsfordguardian.co.uk/news/9449487.Price_hike_for_Knutsford_train_travellers/
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page