Another year, another fare rise

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NSEFAN

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It's that time of year again. Well, not just yet:

BBC: Commuters will find out later how much rail fares are to go up next year when inflation figures are released.

Commuters in England face an average 4.1% rise in regulated rail fares - including season tickets - next year.

The above-inflation rise will come in January.

Trade unions have organised protests at stations around the country and called for the rail network to be returned to public ownership.

In Scotland, prices are capped at the rate of inflation, while there is no rise planned in Northern Ireland and the Welsh government has yet to decide.
Regulated fares - those the government controls - will go up by inflation, as measured by the retail prices index (RPI) for July, plus 1%.

RPI fell from 3.3% to 3.1% in July, according to the Office for National Statistics.

'Evidence before ideology'

The TUC's Action for Rail campaign will see demonstrations at almost 50 stations - including London King's Cross, Birmingham New Street and Manchester Piccadilly - to protest against the increase....
The article has all the usual ingredients: a union representative calling for renationalisation, a passenger's opinion and the DfT putting in a word.

It would have been nice to see a cost breakdown to show us where all the money is actually going. I believe around 5% is TOC profit, whilst NR costs are around 45%?

Note I couldn't find a similar thread in existence for this year's fare rises. Apologies if I've duplicated the topic!
 
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beano900

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I can't wait to pay more for traveling in style on a manky 1980s bus train, far too close to my fellow passenger.

Perhaps First TPE will find another set of 185 so my evening train is full length for most of the week? They wouldn't have to keep inventing lame excuses for not having enough trains then!

Apologies for the sarcasm overload, trains haven't been kind the last couple of days!

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4
 

Squaddie

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This morning's Today programme on Radio 4 featured a commuter who is paying £5,600 for an annual season ticket from Bedford to London. For that she gets the right to travel at any time between those two stations on FCC's shabby, overcrowded trains.

In Germany, for almost exactly the same amount, you could buy a first class Bahncard 100, giving unlimited first class travel across the entire country for a year.

Why are the UK's trains so expensive?
 

YorkshireBear

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I can't wait to pay more for traveling in style on a manky 1980s bus train, far too close to my fellow passenger.

Perhaps First TPE will find another set of 185 so my evening train is full length for most of the week? They wouldn't have to keep inventing lame excuses for not having enough trains then!

Apologies for the sarcasm overload, trains haven't been kind the last couple of days!

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4
First point, valid.

Second point... hmm... They can't just magic a train, they are overstretched by the stupid (although... I think that route was destined to be crap for a while with the WCRM) decision to give them the Manchester to Scotland route. There are many lame excuses the real reason should be. DfT screwed us over.

Also do the TOCs actually control this fare rise or is it all government?
 

NSEFAN

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Squaddie said:
Why are the UK's trains so expensive?
Less governmental subsidy in this country, and higher operating costs due to industry fragmentation. I suspect these are two of the big reasons. It would be nice to see a detailed financial analysis of both systems to see if this is actually the case!
 

BestWestern

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The TOCs sort of have control. I'm not an expert on all of this, I find the politics of railways very tedious, but I understand that there is a 'fares basket' - which always brings to mind a 90's pub with people eating scampi in a basket :D - which has to average out over all of the increases (or sometimes decreases) which are imposed. That explains why sometimes certain flows stay the same, or go down a little, or go up by far less than others; it is so that bigger rises can be put in place elsewhere while maintaining the 'basket' average.
 
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beano900

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YorkshireBear said:
First point, valid.

Second point... hmm... They can't just magic a train, they are overstretched by the stupid (although... I think that route was destined to be crap for a while with the WCRM) decision to give them the Manchester to Scotland route. There are many lame excuses the real reason should be. DfT screwed us over.

Also do the TOCs actually control this fare rise or is it all government?
Fair enough, I realise they can't magic trains from the sky. They could just be honest though. They are a set short and share it out around the various routes.

I don't actually blame first or even northern for their terrible gear, it's the government and more specifically, the government of the 1980s for creating the inefficient system in the first place.

As a result we end up paying more for the same average service, despite quite a sizeable increase in passenger revenue.
 

philjo

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BBC reporting now that RPI has fallen slightly to 3.1% so the fare rises should not be as high as originally predicted (when an RPI increase to 3.3% was forecast)
so fares will rise by 4.1% on average

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23678274

The rate of consumer prices index (CPI) inflation fell to 2.8% in July, down from 2.9% in June, according to the Office for National Statistics (ONS).


The Bank of England's target for CPI inflation is 2%.


The drop in the rate of inflation came from lower air fares, discounting by clothing retailers and a reduction in the cost of leisure and cultural goods.


The rate of retail prices index (RPI) inflation also fell, to 3.1%, from 3.3% in June....
 
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Bungle73

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It would have been nice to see a cost breakdown to show us where all the money is actually going. I believe around 5% is TOC profit, whilst NR costs are around 45%?
Um, there's a breakdown in the article you just posted......:

BBC said:
For every £1 spent on a train ticket:

Track and station maintenance 48p

Staffing 17p

Train companies' running costs 17p

Leasing rolling stock 11p

Train fuel 4p

Profit for the train companies 3p

Source: ATOC
 
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NSEFAN

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Bungle73 said:
Um, there's a breakdown in the story you just posted......:
It has been added retrospectively; it wasn't there when I first linked the article. Thanks for making me aware of it! Presumably the TOC running costs include franchise payments to the treasury?

It would be nice to see how this compares with the railways in other European countries, such as DB.
 

yorkie

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Why are the UK's trains so expensive?
I'd suggest that's a new topic. I could think of many, many reasons...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
It has been added retrospectively; it wasn't there when I first linked the article. Thanks for making me aware of it! Presumably the TOC running costs include franchise payments to the treasury?
For the small number that do that? I can't think where else it could be accounted for, so I'd guess so.
 

GodAtum

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I heard on the news this morning about protestors at London stations (eg Victoria) demonstrating about increased fares. Anyone taking part?
 

syorksdeano

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Is it just me that finds it funny but most of those protesting about train fares have travelled to the protests by train.

Still the fares are expensive as it is and something needs to be done
 

swt_passenger

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You could list loads of other matters, which affect nearly everyone, that are related to RPI, such as pensions. Why do the media concentrate on the effect of RPI on train fares every year?

Has Maria Eagle complained yet, about the RPI+1% procedure, brought in by her previous government?
 

WatcherZero

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You mean the Conservative RPI +3%? They backed down every year theyve had to actually implement it including this year too, only raised it by RPI +1% the old Labour policy.
 
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swt_passenger

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You mean the Conservative RPI +3%? They backed down every year theyve had to actually implement it including this year too, only raised it by RPI +1% the old Labour policy.
So like I say, Eagle has got nothing to complain about, Labour policy is being maintained.
 

Bungle73

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Is it just me that finds it funny but most of those protesting about train fares have travelled to the protests by train.

Still the fares are expensive as it is and something needs to be done
How is it "funny" that people who use trains are the ones protesting about train fares? :?
 

Dave1987

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Quote of the day on the BBCs have your say.

Apparently all train drivers earn £65k-£75k a year!!

How naive are some of the British public eh.......
 

HST Power

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How is it "funny" that people who use trains are the ones protesting about train fares? :?
I think he means that it is somewhat ironic. Mainly, "oh isn't it terrible that the fares are going up, but we'll still use them to travel to our protest!"
 

tbtc

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http://www.theguardian.com/money/2013/aug/13/rail-fares-rise-january

The TUC general secretary, Frances O'Grady, said: "Every year hard-pressed rail commuters have to hand over an ever greater share of their earnings just to get to and from work. Wage-busting fare rises are not even going on much-needed service improvements either
Okay, I expect a Trade Union leader to come out with the same old retoric, but its frustrating when people get the impression that there aren't improvements to the railways - we've had a period of stagnation but there are some huge improvements over the next few years - thousands of new carriages on order, lots of electrification, lines re-opening, bottlenecks being sorted out etc - it'd be nice if for once people got the message that there is "jam tomorrow".
 

CNash

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The high cost of rail fares is already pricing me out of the job market for anywhere outside London (because fares shoot up as soon as you leave Zone 6); I'm just happy that I'm not currently in a position of paying thousands for a season ticket (only hundreds!).
 

RichmondCommu

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Is it just me that finds it funny but most of those protesting about train fares have travelled to the protests by train.

Still the fares are expensive as it is and something needs to be done
That’s because living in London we have no choice but to take the train. Not that I can be bothered to protest, what's the point when the Government just does what it wants.
 

aformeruser

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Perhaps First TPE will find another set of 185 so my evening train is full length for most of the week? They wouldn't have to keep inventing lame excuses for not having enough trains then!
Do you get the service on North TPE that's booked for 6 car Mon-Thurs but 3 cars on Friday?

If so the reason is Mon-Thurs there is a 16:00 Manchester Airport-Edinburgh and Windermere portion working (6 carriages in total.) On Fridays there is a 16:00 Manchester Airport-Edinburgh (6 carriages throughout) and a 17:04 Preston-Windermere (3 carriages.)

Given that 350s will start running the Scottish services and that North TPE will get 5tph in May 2014 you may well see benefits from increased capacity within the next year.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Okay, I expect a Trade Union leader to come out with the same old retoric, but its frustrating when people get the impression that there aren't improvements to the railways
You'll probably recall that prior to the MML electrification announcement in quite a few posts you bemoaned the fact that all the North of England improvements were elsewhere and that there weren't any real plans for Sheffield.

Many places still aren't set to get any real improvements except for possibly a little extra capacity from cascaded 1980s DMUs released by electrification projects.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
That’s because living in London we have no choice but to take the train. Not that I can be bothered to protest, what's the point when the Government just does what it wants.
London commuters have the same choice as non-London commuters but the rail option is much more attractive (due to the frequent service and more rail connections) and the car option is much less attractive (more congestion and congestion charges.)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
So like I say, Eagle has got nothing to complain about, Labour policy is being maintained.
Eagle's response is not to change the formula but to introduce an additional rule alongside it:

Sky News said:
Shadow Transport Secretary Maria Eagle told Sky News that some train companies were "fiddling" the fare cap.

"A 4.1% average increase, yes, but up to 9.1% because the current government gave back to train companies the power to increase some fares by an extra 5% on top (of RPI)," she said.

"The first thing they could and should do is put a stop to that."
http://news.sky.com/story/1127843/rail-fares-to-rise-by-4-1-percent-in-january-2014
 
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Realfish

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Do you get the service on North TPE that's booked for 6 car Mon-Thurs but 3 cars on Friday?

If so the reason is Mon-Thurs there is a 16:00 Manchester Airport-Edinburgh and Windermere portion working (6 carriages in total.) On Fridays there is a 16:00 Manchester Airport-Edinburgh (6 carriages throughout) and a 17:04 Preston-Windermere (3 carriages.)

Given that 350s will start running the Scottish services and that North TPE will get 5tph in May 2014 you may well see benefits from increased capacity within the next year.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


You'll probably recall that prior to the MML electrification announcement in quite a few posts you bemoaned the fact that all the North of England improvements were elsewhere and that there weren't any real plans for Sheffield.

Many places still aren't set to get any real improvements except for possibly a little extra capacity from cascaded 1980s DMUs released by electrification projects.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


London commuters have the same choice as non-London commuters but the rail option is much more attractive (due to the frequent service and more rail connections) and the car option is much less attractive (more congestion and congestion charges.)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Eagle's response is not to change the formula but to introduce an additional rule alongside it:



http://news.sky.com/story/1127843/rail-fares-to-rise-by-4-1-percent-in-january-2014


Eagle, the Unions and the BBC were focussing on possible 9% increases at lunchtime.

Did unregulated rises of that magnitude occur this year?
 

aformeruser

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Eagle, the Unions and the BBC were focussing on possible 9% increases at lunchtime.

Did unregulated rises of that magnitude occur this year?
I've just found an article on it relating to the January 2012 fare increases, which focused on 12-13% fare increases but they were fares for journeys which involve both National Rail and Metrolink. At the bottom of the article is a quote from Maria Eagle referring to a 'fares fiddle' so it sounds like she has just repeated the same statement for 3 years running: http://www.knutsfordguardian.co.uk/news/9449487.Price_hike_for_Knutsford_train_travellers/
 
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