Any Class 165 drivers out there?

[Domeyhead]

I am a humble passenger facing a long daily commute involving no less than 3 TOCs so I get to ride behind different stock daily. Typically my journey will involve 1) a SWT Desiro Class 444, 2) A XCT Voyager class 221 and 3) a FGW 165/1.
I hate the 221 from a comfort perspective but it is clear that they handle beautifully especially braking. Drivers usually manage to brake for stations as a single continuous deceleration. However the dear old 165s (my favourite ride) always seem to approach stations even on the Great West main line really tentatively usually tiptoeing into the station at walking pace. It sounds as if the driver is really feeling the brakes every time. I was wondering - is there a poor feedback on the brake lever? are these little turbos buggers to stop? are the wheels prone to lock?
As for the 444s - well they just do it. Beautiful machines to ride in and the passenger cabin ambience is superb.

 

[whhistle]

At a stab in the dark, it could just be the age.
A modern car is much quieter and better at braking than an older car.

 

[TDK]

I am a humble passenger facing a long daily commute involving no less than 3 TOCs so I get to ride behind different stock daily. Typically my journey will involve 1) a SWT Desiro Class 444, 2) A XCT Voyager class 221 and 3) a FGW 165/1.
I hate the 221 from a comfort perspective but it is clear that they handle beautifully especially braking. Drivers usually manage to brake for stations as a single continuous deceleration. However the dear old 165s (my favourite ride) always seem to approach stations even on the Great West main line really tentatively usually tiptoeing into the station at walking pace. It sounds as if the driver is really feeling the brakes every time. I was wondering - is there a poor feedback on the brake lever? are these little turbos buggers to stop? are the wheels prone to lock?
As for the 444s - well they just do it. Beautiful machines to ride in and the passenger cabin ambience is superb.

165's have excellent brakes and usually you only need step 1 of 3, maybe the FGW drivers are trained differently, the wheels do slip as they are quite light but not that often. Drivers are trained to stop smoothly so I would say the 165 drivers are just doing their job

 

[tempests1]

I am a humble passenger facing a long daily commute involving no less than 3 TOCs so I get to ride behind different stock daily. Typically my journey will involve 1) a SWT Desiro Class 444, 2) A XCT Voyager class 221 and 3) a FGW 165/1.
I hate the 221 from a comfort perspective but it is clear that they handle beautifully especially braking. Drivers usually manage to brake for stations as a single continuous deceleration. However the dear old 165s (my favourite ride) always seem to approach stations even on the Great West main line really tentatively usually tiptoeing into the station at walking pace. It sounds as if the driver is really feeling the brakes every time. I was wondering - is there a poor feedback on the brake lever? are these little turbos buggers to stop? are the wheels prone to lock?
As for the 444s - well they just do it. Beautiful machines to ride in and the passenger cabin ambience is superb.

The 444's are very comfortable. They put me in the mind of the 442's when they were with SWT.

 

[KiddyKid]

I was trained on the Class 165 when they were brand new, the instructors told us to use all brake notches as required and it was deemed to be a very efficient brake until leaf fall season and the several spectacular incidents including Slough Bay occured. I believe the brake cylinder pressures were reduced to eliviate the wheelslide problems and to reduce brake pad wear. With the introduction of professional driving schemes by many TOC's the policy on braking changed with the use of step one becoming the norm and use of other notches frowned upon. I must agree with TDK that the brake on the 165 is still regarded as good even with the annual problems with wheelslip/slide that still occur even after all these years.

 

[BestWestern]

The 444's are very comfortable. They put me in the mind of the 442's when they were with SWT.

Oh no contest surely, give me Wessex over a Desi any day! The Desiro might be very efficient and smooth and all that jazz, but they have no character at all, the seats are rock solid and, in my view, they lack any sensible degree of vestibule space. For stock built for such a busy commuter line you might expect room in the vestibules to stow bikes buggies etc, but it's hard work unless you pick the right door. Even on a 158 you can squeeze 'em in just about anywhere, no chance on a 444!

To refer to the original question, speaking from experience with Sprinters it is generally fairly easy to tell what the Driver is doing with the brakes on approaching a stop. The 221 and 444 units have, I understand, more complex braking set-ups containing much modern kit and trickery, and it may well be that this disguises the feel of the brakes going in. They will also be much better insulated in the saloons, and ride a lot smoother as well, all of which numbs the feel of what is going on under the solebar. Certainly I can feel a massive difference when I travel in a Desiro compared with a 158 or suchlike, they are indeed very smooth and appear to glide to a stop, something which no mid-life DMU is ever likely to be able to achieve.