Any ideas what the Government is going to suggest?

[WatcherZero]

Well already bad for the Government, head of ORR has come out just now and said that the efficency reforms are being forced on them by policymakers who want to be seen to be taking the cost of HS2 out of existing rail spending.

As everyone here should know it already was, using the annual spend currently allocated to Crossrail. But this is about selling to the public that their cutting costs to fund it.

 

[Chapeltom]

No more fare rises would be a start. I told my Dad last night its over £9.00 for an adult return ticket to Manchester from our local station, 20 miles and his jaw dropped to the floor. I'm starting to agree with some opinions the railways are becoming a middle class toy. I'm thankful I've got my 16-25 railcard.

However, I'd accept fare rises if the Northern hub project went ahead it would benefit me and my travelling quite a lot.

 

[Wath Yard]

Not at all. If there is a demand for a 3 or 4 coach train - you run a 3 or 4 coach train! The clue being the word demand.

And it wasn't always to parcel trains. Quite often, afternoon Yorks to London trains would be 4 or 5 mark 1s or 2s - no parcels carriages in sight!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Yes, and if there is demand for a class 153 from Perth - Penzance then presumably we should run that service also. What the Government is going to be doing is proposing how the railway can be more affordable, not some 1960s dream of transporting 1 man and a cow from one village to another every other week for market day.

 

[jon0844]

If TOCs are only getting 3-4p in every £1 spent, why is everyone blaming them for the huge costs of the railway?

The unions do themselves no favours here. Nationalising the railway completely wouldn't necessarily save money, it's merely to protect jobs and arguably to try and increase pay, which will increase costs further.

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk

 

[Greenback]

Yes, and if there is demand for a class 153 from Perth - Penzance then presumably we should run that service also. What the Government is going to be doing is proposing how the railway can be more affordable, not some 1960s dream of transporting 1 man and a cow from one village to another every other week for market day.

1960's dream??? The 1960's saw large scale closures of railway lines precisely because they were not transporting enough people! (Or cows!)

Still, I agree with your point, it's just the choice of decade I have an issue with!

 

[ainsworth74]

Just starting now, you can watch here.

 

[Zoe]

Live now on BBC Parliament.

 

[WatcherZero]

Here we go shes speaking now....

* Buzzwords 'putting the customer first' 'high standards and low cost' 'Ronseal policy, does exactly what it says on the tin'

* Railways costly and inefficent, railways must earn 'the right to grow'.

* Closer relationship between infrastructure and tocs needed, partnerships will be equipped and incetivised.

* Greater transparancy of costs and effiencies in franchises.

* Smart ticketing expand in England and Wales, more ticket options for non commuters who dont do the same journey 5 days a week.

* More jobs in the rail industry (as efficency requires more jobs she claims)

Basically all talk and buzzwords, no policy.

 

[Hydro]

She's saying words, but I can't actually discern any meaning.

 

[ainsworth74]

I think the one moment where we got near to policy but still didn't actually form any was the talk of introducing smart cards (though that's been a target for a while) and a range of new tickets that take account of the fact that a lot of people don't work nine to five on Monday to Friday. But still all talk no substance and was it just me or did Maria Eagle's response actually go on for longer than Justine Greenings statement!?

 

[WatcherZero]

Problem is thats a policy of the last Government and is already meant to come into force 2013/14.

 

[jon0844]

Flexible season tickets would be great. I now work from home, but there's a good chance that I may soon be working from an office for 2 or 3 days a week. This makes a normal season ticket useless.

Likewise, flexible working hours can solve the problem of peak usage - and should be encouraged. A lot of trades (not all, obviously) don't require rigid 9-5 working.

 

[WatcherZero]

My God, she just said if passengers want face to face purchase of tickets they should go to a post office or library.

 

[jon0844]

My God, she just said if passengers want face to face purchase of tickets they should go to a post office or library.

What's the harm in that? It may help keep local shops (and post offices) open.

I am aware of the implications for staffing at stations, but the above idea isn't actually that silly. In the future, smartcards or print@home tickets will drastically reduce the tickets sold on the railway, just as Oyster has in London.

What would be better is to ensure staffing levels remain, more for customer services and station security/peace of mind etc. In other words, redeployment and an acceptance that ticketing is going to change, no matter how slow the Government or ATOC is in making it happen.

 

[Hydro]

My God, she just said if passengers want face to face purchase of tickets they should go to a post office or library.

What Post Offices or Libraries?


I think the ticketing issue became a bit of a diversion from some of the other points Eagle raised. It went on for longer than it should have.

 

[WatcherZero]

What's the harm in that? It may help keep local shops (and post offices) open.

I am aware of the implications for staffing at stations, but the above idea isn't actually that silly. In the future, smartcards or print@home tickets will drastically reduce the tickets sold on the railway, just as Oyster has in London.

What would be better is to ensure staffing levels remain, more for customer services and station security/peace of mind etc. In other words, redeployment and an acceptance that ticketing is going to change, no matter how slow the Government or ATOC is in making it happen.

So do you expect Post offices and librarys to maintain staff with knowledge of route, timetable and ticketing options able to offer the advice their seeking in a face to face transaction? How many Librarys and post offices should provide such a function, just the main ones? village ones? all? You expect people to make a half hour or more detour away from their station to visit their library and purchase a ticket?

 

[ainsworth74]

She just ruled out nationalisation (though is anyone actually surprised?).

 

[jon0844]

So do you expect Post offices and librarys to maintain staff with knowledge of route, timetable and ticketing options able to offer the advice their seeking in a face to face transaction? How many Librarys and post offices should provide such a function, just the main ones? village ones? all? You expect people to make a half hour or more detour away from their station to visit their library and purchase a ticket?

No, but I want ticketing to change - radically. The current system isn't simple and that's why it's so hard to even get things right AT a railway station!

That's not (hopefully) for Government to sort out though (and I doubt will be discussed today), but I wish ATOC would start to show signs that they're thinking for the future. I've heard some things about some pending improvements (giving info on routes etc) which is promising.

I will accept that a post office shouldn't be selling tickets until we have something as simple as Oyster in place, where people are only really needing to top-up cards or check running information (and that's assuming that given the uptake in smartphone usage and the understanding of apps, most people won't be getting all the info they need before they step inside any station, post office or library).

 

[Hydro]

Nearly fell out of my chair when she suggested that there has never been a better time for working in the railway industry than now.

 

[pemma]

Nearly fell out of my chair when she suggested that there has never been a better time for working in the railway industry than now.

Well if the railway was nationalised there would be pension cuts and pay freezes but as it's privatised many employees enjoy annual pay rises of around 5%.

 

[Hydro]

Well if the railway was nationalised there would be pension cuts and pay freezes but as it's privatised many employees enjoy annual pay rises of around 5%.

Of course, it's all about the money. Not the working environment, job satisfaction or job security. How silly of me.

Note I never said that being nationalised would make working in the industry the best time ever for employees.

 

[Stats]

No, but I want ticketing to change - radically. The current system isn't simple and that's why it's so hard to even get things right AT a railway station!

That's not (hopefully) for Government to sort out though (and I doubt will be discussed today), but I wish ATOC would start to show signs that they're thinking for the future. I've heard some things about some pending improvements (giving info on routes etc) which is promising.

There is a consultation document out today on Rail Fares and ticketing. Included in it are radical changes such as allowing "customers" to "pay the difference" when they miss the train their Advance ticket is valid on.

 

[pemma]

job security

Passenger numbers are up on what they were a few years ago and that has resulted in more services and more staff required to run the services. For instance, all the LM 150s have remained in service despite 172s being brought in to replace them.

 

[Schnellzug]

* Railways costly and inefficent, railways must earn 'the right to grow'..

Government Minister in "no, really?" shocker.

What's the harm in that? It may help keep local shops (and post offices) open. .

You can't catch a train from most Post offices or Libraries.

 

[tbtc]

She just ruled out nationalisation (though is anyone actually surprised?)

Why would any Government want to nationalise the railways, that'd mean having to take responsibility for them

At the moment the Government can take all of the credit for investing money in the railways whilst shrugging off the blame for things that go wrong (which are always the fault of the private TOCs/ the "arms length" Network Rail).

This is the perfect situation for politicians

Nearly fell out of my chair when she suggested that there has never been a better time for working in the railway industry than now.

In many ways its true though.

There are more and more staff (without necessarily any improvement in productivity - how many layers of management do we need?), the wages and conditions have improved significantly compared to "public sector" jobs (which the railways once were), the unions have ensured that people keep their jobs when TOCs change hands...

...its tempting to look back at BR as a land of milk and honey but many people in the railway industry have never had things better than they currently do (at a time when many outside the railway industry are on short term contracts/ losing jobs/ downsized etc).

Privatisation has been good news for the banks (they own the ROSCOS which are a goose laying them lots of golden eggs), good for Unions (they've more power over private TOCs than they ever had over BR), good for staff (£££), good for lawyers (how many more are there?), good for politicians (can take credit for the good things and blame others for the bad things)... its only the passengers who have had a raw deal.

 

[Captain Chaos]

So. Is DOO being implemented nationwide then?

 

[Hydro]

There are more and more staff (without necessarily any improvement in productivity - how many layers of management do we need?), the wages and conditions have improved significantly compared to "public sector" jobs (which the railways once were), the unions have ensured that people keep their jobs when TOCs change hands...

...and isn't it these staff that this report is looking to cut back on to save money?

I was under the impression that the EU is responsible for TUPE, not the unions.

...its tempting to look back at BR as a land of milk and honey but many people in the railway industry have never had things better than they currently do (at a time when many outside the railway industry are on short term contracts/ losing jobs/ downsized etc).

I'm not for one second suggesting BR was a land of milk and honey. I never worked for BR. Many people IN the railway industry are on short term contracts, losing jobs and being downsized.

There's more to the industry than the TOC's, and I'm not saying that these things cannot bring network improvement, just that it's a bit rich saying "there's never been a better time to work on the railway" - things are as uncertain within the industry as they are outside it.

 

[Bellwater]

Well if the railway was nationalised there would be pension cuts and pay freezes but as it's privatised many employees enjoy annual pay rises of around 5%.

When am I getting this 5pc pay rise then? Never had one in 9 Years..

 

[pemma]

When am I getting this 5pc pay rise then? Never had one in 9 Years..

I said most and it's the argument the unions used against TPE - the other operators are all giving pay rises of around 5% so TPE should up their offer or we'll go on strike.

 

[Aictos]

Thing is though are the railways of Europe such as the French, German, Belgium national railways really effective with their style of management which is basically splitting their railways into two companies, one responsible for the tracks and the other responsible for the services?

If they have managed to deliver savings without breaking up their railways into a million pieces then surely that would be the best thing for the UK to do in that Network Rail would be responsible for the tracks and UK Rail being responsible for the services then keepinng the existing system, yes the pieces ought to work better together but if being effective meaning starting with a new slate using the European system of management then that is what this government ought to do.